Time to abandon Feminism?

I believe feminism has been deliberately tarnished by misogynists - who use a victim complex to justify their discriminatory views in much the same way (ironically) as the misandric feminists they like to pretend are the majority.

While it may be only a matter of (fairly ridiculous) wordplay, I prefer to retain (and therefore protect the honour of, if that makes sense) the term "feminist" but describe myself as an egalitarian/humanist (or even a "masculinist" if needs be) in addition.

I also do not believe that modern feminism is the main culprit for quashing men's rights. It is traditional (aka non-feminist) viewpoints which do the most to restrict men in traditionally female domains. What feminist thinks that men should have less rights to their children because women are the "natural" parent (for example)? How does that even make sense? I find that feminism seems to be blamed for every abuse of men's rights, or every example of a woman behaving badly, even when there is no connection whatsoever. Why should the term be abandoned because those against the equal treatment of both sexes have deliberately attempted to tarnish it?

EDIT: I think bringing LGBT into this defeats the point - aren't they an organisation/concept which could be criticised in exactly the same way as feminism, because defending heterosexuals is not an overt part of their set-up?

I liken the conservative/traditional attack on LGBT rights as "an assault of family values" or "undermining heterosexuals" as exactly the same as the way that feminism is viewed as an assault on men. Basically a massive strawman which we should have the sense to see straight through.

Most words and terms that usually reserved for association or use by women undergo negative pejoration. Feminism itself has been tarnished with a stiff, generalising brush. Not all feminists are female, neither are they radical, homosexual, home-wrecking or man hating.

'Feminism is a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women' - if that's the meaning of feminism, then I'm 100% behind it.

But equal to what? The very idea of Feminism is sexist, it's a constant process of 'catching up to' men, but that's not the issue in the modern world, it's no longer getting the vote or equal pay. Gender issues are far more grey than they have ever been, and gender encompasses the non cis-gendered community. All of these should be under the same banner. You wouldn't suooprt seperate Black, Chinese and Polish rights lobby groups would you?

I agree to an extent, but surely you can't deny that gender equality better encompasses gender issues?

And feminism doesn't promote change to the rights of men for their own sake, feminism in it's modern sense is about the promotion of women.

It's the example of Black rights again, there was a time when such a term was appropriate, but it no longer is. And because a view is not traditional, it does not make it liberal or progressive.

Bringing non cis-gender issues into the wider banner of gender equality would certainly help their cause, and bringing together male and female rights promotion under the same banner can only be a good thing too, unless you believe in the promotion of one over the other.

But equal to what? The very idea of Feminism is sexist, it's a constant process of 'catching up to' men, but that's not the issue in the modern world, it's no longer getting the vote or equal pay.

Gender issues are far more grey than they have ever been, and gender encompasses the non cis-gendered community. All of these should be under the same banner. You wouldn't suooprt seperate Black, Chinese and Polish rights lobby groups would you?

Yes. But one can be a gender egalitarian (in fact I think it is absolutely necessary to be so) and a feminist. I'd say more feminists are gender egalitarians than are people who either take no interest or are "against feminism" a significant proportion of whom (at least online) seem to be sexist by my estimation (not you btw, I am not trying to call you sexist - but the number of threads I see "women are evil, defend man's rights against feminism!!" is just ludicrous because they literally encompass everything said posters accuse feminism of being (which it isn't) and criticise feminism for being, yet ordinary not-sexist people chirp in and seem to agree, and seem to be blind to the sheer hypocrisy - what case in point could better demonstrate the need for feminism?)



No, strongly disagree, basically see my original post. I think this strawman with sexist origins tbh.




I disagree that Black rights is an inappropriate term.



Yes. This is why I loudly proclaim I am a gender egalitarian (and well, overall egalitarian) as well as a feminist at every opportunity!



But that's the thing - issues such as equal pay and shared responsibilities are still major, even in the developed world. Moreover, issues of the portrayal and expectations of women, and the different subculture they are exposed to (in some ways better, in some ways worse) is still major imo.




They exist and I do support them as long as they don't have a superior attitude. It is no bad thing for groups which are still in some way marginalized to have specific representation. It's the same as I'm not against "fathers for justice" just because they don't call themselves "parents for justice" and dabble in female parents rights - they have identified a specific problem and attempt to address it.

So you would support a White rights group? Mens rights groups? It's funny, but the very 'White, middle-aged male' society of the past is the very thing that leads to inequality in the recognition of problems and rights today. Mens rights are not an issue that are taken seriously, neither are the issues of non-cis gendered people. As a 'gender egalitarian' as you claim to be, you should support all of these equally under the banner of Gender Equality. Not pay lip service to them and then proclaim yourself feminist. Would you honestly take seriously a white man that says he believes in racial equality, but then campaigns only for White rights and declares himself a White activist etc?

You know what? I think the social and mainstream media reactions to the Steubenville rape trial proves why feminism is still needed. there is still a particular problem with attitudes towards women, not only from men as the twitter and other messages show. There is still a problem, attitudes have not changed, and I am amazingly depressed reading those tweets and watching CNN's coverage.

http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

You know what? I think the social and mainstream media reactions to the Steubenville rape trial proves why feminism is still needed. there is still a particular problem with attitudes towards women, not only from men as the twitter and other messages show. There is still a problem, attitudes have not changed, and I am amazingly depressed reading those tweets and watching CNN's coverage.

http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

In this modern day and age, Feminism as a term and concept has been polluted by radical misandrists. One cannot call themselves a Feminist without being tarred with that brush, and it is a bad brush.

So I propose we let such radicals have Feminism. It's not a needed concept anyway, indeed in it's inception it's a loaded term. The same way we no longer talk in terms of 'Black rights' but race equality we now need to talk of gender equality.

I understand why people don't want to abandon the term feminism, it's a very emotive issue, and all around the world women are treated as second-class citizens. But there is another issue, and a growing one in the modern world, and that is gender as a concept. The growth in the LGBT community cannot be denied, as liberal society has accepted them. Gender is no longer merely male & female, cis-gender is not the only option. So again, as 'Black rights' became race equality to encompass all races, so feminism, the major driving force in gender issues, needs to become the more encompassing gender equality. Such a title also helps to prevent the discrimination, extremism and sectarianism that we have seen in modern 'feminism', you cannot promote rights beyond equality like you can when you focus on promoting only a single party's rights like you do in Feminism.

People on the internet are idiots shocker

People are entitled to their opinions, however stupid they may be. Whoever is behind that tumblr page is as pathetic as the tweeters and has a massive victim complex. Publishing those details because you don't agree with their opinions is absolutely ridiculous and I said the same when the BNP members list got leaked.

Idiots maybe, but people still feel they need to say things, and the views are pretty Stone Age.

As for the publication...twitter is already public, people are putting these things out there for the world to see. Nothing (unlike the BNP list) is being 'leaked'.

You are assuming they are actually genuine views. This is the internet after all where trolling is commonplace.



It's not the same no but I mentioned that because I don't agree with 'shaming' people for their views, which is exactly what they're doing. They are as bad as the tweeters. Just leave them to it tbh.

Is this a good example of feminism gone wrong?
If she just shut her mouth, she wouldn't have been sent to prison.