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Is a degree from an ex-poly worthless?
Is a degree from an ex-poly really worth the debt, especially if it's in a non-vocational subject?
There seems to be this perception that anyone with a non-vocational degree from an ex-poly hasn't worked very hard for it and therefore it is treated as practically meaningless.
There seems to be this perception that anyone with a non-vocational degree from an ex-poly hasn't worked very hard for it and therefore it is treated as practically meaningless.
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What's odd is that people who will cheerfully spend hours in arguing the odds over an imagined distinction in international prestige existing between Exeter and Bath will as cheerfully lump >50 institutions together. The former polys are variously good. They were variously good as polys, too. And it's certainly possible to parlay success there into something having more TSR cred...
Anyone thinking of attending Russell Group Nottingham University and contemptuous of ex-polys might be well advised to exercise discretion in airing these views. The vice-chancellor (and professor of economics) went to Liverpool Poly, now Liverpool John Moores. The Dean of the Faculty of Arts (and professor of philosophy) did his first degree at Huddersfield. In UCL economics you'd be very lucky to be taught by Professor Steve Machin, both because he's great and because he's shared with Harvard. He did his first degree at Wolverhampton.
Anyone thinking of attending Russell Group Nottingham University and contemptuous of ex-polys might be well advised to exercise discretion in airing these views. The vice-chancellor (and professor of economics) went to Liverpool Poly, now Liverpool John Moores. The Dean of the Faculty of Arts (and professor of philosophy) did his first degree at Huddersfield. In UCL economics you'd be very lucky to be taught by Professor Steve Machin, both because he's great and because he's shared with Harvard. He did his first degree at Wolverhampton.
Original post by cambio wechsel
What's odd is that people who will cheerfully spend hours in arguing the odds over an imagined distinction in international prestige existing between Exeter and Bath will as cheerfully lump >50 institutions together. The former polys are variously good. They were variously good as polys, too. And it's certainly possible to parlay success there into something having more TSR cred...
Anyone thinking of attending Russell Group Nottingham University and contemptuous of ex-polys might be well advised to exercise discretion in airing these views. The vice-chancellor (and professor of economics) went to Liverpool Poly, now Liverpool John Moores. The Dean of the Faculty of Arts (and professor of philosophy) did his first degree at Huddersfield. In UCL economics you'd be very lucky to be taught by Professor Steve Machin, both because he's great and because he's shared with Harvard. He did his first degree at Wolverhampton.
Anyone thinking of attending Russell Group Nottingham University and contemptuous of ex-polys might be well advised to exercise discretion in airing these views. The vice-chancellor (and professor of economics) went to Liverpool Poly, now Liverpool John Moores. The Dean of the Faculty of Arts (and professor of philosophy) did his first degree at Huddersfield. In UCL economics you'd be very lucky to be taught by Professor Steve Machin, both because he's great and because he's shared with Harvard. He did his first degree at Wolverhampton.
Well Said
Original post by TobaccoSmoke
Is a degree from an ex-poly really worth the debt, especially if it's in a non-vocational subject?
There seems to be this perception that anyone with a non-vocational degree from an ex-poly hasn't worked very hard for it and therefore it is treated as practically meaningless.
There seems to be this perception that anyone with a non-vocational degree from an ex-poly hasn't worked very hard for it and therefore it is treated as practically meaningless.
Original post by cambio wechsel
What's odd is that people who will cheerfully spend hours in arguing the odds over an imagined distinction in international prestige existing between Exeter and Bath will as cheerfully lump >50 institutions together. The former polys are variously good. They were variously good as polys, too. And it's certainly possible to parlay success there into something having more TSR cred...
Anyone thinking of attending Russell Group Nottingham University and contemptuous of ex-polys might be well advised to exercise discretion in airing these views. The vice-chancellor (and professor of economics) went to Liverpool Poly, now Liverpool John Moores. The Dean of the Faculty of Arts (and professor of philosophy) did his first degree at Huddersfield. In UCL economics you'd be very lucky to be taught by Professor Steve Machin, both because he's great and because he's shared with Harvard. He did his first degree at Wolverhampton.
Anyone thinking of attending Russell Group Nottingham University and contemptuous of ex-polys might be well advised to exercise discretion in airing these views. The vice-chancellor (and professor of economics) went to Liverpool Poly, now Liverpool John Moores. The Dean of the Faculty of Arts (and professor of philosophy) did his first degree at Huddersfield. In UCL economics you'd be very lucky to be taught by Professor Steve Machin, both because he's great and because he's shared with Harvard. He did his first degree at Wolverhampton.
An answer to cambio wechsel is "that was then, this is now". There are more students in Russell Group universities now than there were in the whole university and polytechnic sector on the date the polys became universities.
The issue with all non-vocational degrees is "what are you going to do with it". The problem is more acute with ex-Polys because they don't have an element of prestige (or where they do it is limited to particular subjects or particular fields) to carry the student forward.
There are some people who are willing to go out and spend circa £50,000 of borrowed money on a whim but they are very much a minority. Most people who buy a boat or a car or a conservatory or a work of art, know exactly why they want to spend that amount of money on that item. An awful lot of people who buy a university education have very little clue why they are making the purchase.
If you buy a vintage Ferrari, you perhaps don't have to know in the same way as if you buy a UCL degree, you don't have to know why you are studying there. The prestige will protect the value. But that isn't going to help you at Huddersfield or Bournemouth.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by TobaccoSmoke
Is a degree from an ex-poly really worth the debt, especially if it's in a non-vocational subject?
There seems to be this perception that anyone with a non-vocational degree from an ex-poly hasn't worked very hard for it and therefore it is treated as practically meaningless.
There seems to be this perception that anyone with a non-vocational degree from an ex-poly hasn't worked very hard for it and therefore it is treated as practically meaningless.
Definitely not in a lot of vocational subjects - things Like occupational therapy, nursing and Physio are often better regarded or even only available at polys.
In more academic subjects you might get a job but it is unlikely to be in a related subject and at the end of the day you will be competing with people from other Unis for generic grad jobs. Also, the standard of courses at Polys can be dire, for example my friend did the same course as me at Derby (Zoology - but essentially thing of it as Biology without the plants) and I would say his course was in the main a waste of time - he barely learnt anything in any way helpful to our masters and never even did statistics. It got him onto the Masters though so I guess it wasn't a complete waste!
So I am going to conclude no, but or academic subjects I would avoid going to one if at all possible.
Original post by TobaccoSmoke
Is a degree from an ex-poly really worth the debt, especially if it's in a non-vocational subject?
There seems to be this perception that anyone with a non-vocational degree from an ex-poly hasn't worked very hard for it and therefore it is treated as practically meaningless.
There seems to be this perception that anyone with a non-vocational degree from an ex-poly hasn't worked very hard for it and therefore it is treated as practically meaningless.
No, it is meaningless.
Original post by cambio wechsel
What's odd is that people who will cheerfully spend hours in arguing the odds over an imagined distinction in international prestige existing between Exeter and Bath will as cheerfully lump >50 institutions together. The former polys are variously good. They were variously good as polys, too. And it's certainly possible to parlay success there into something having more TSR cred...
Anyone thinking of attending Russell Group Nottingham University and contemptuous of ex-polys might be well advised to exercise discretion in airing these views. The vice-chancellor (and professor of economics) went to Liverpool Poly, now Liverpool John Moores. The Dean of the Faculty of Arts (and professor of philosophy) did his first degree at Huddersfield. In UCL economics you'd be very lucky to be taught by Professor Steve Machin, both because he's great and because he's shared with Harvard. He did his first degree at Wolverhampton.
Anyone thinking of attending Russell Group Nottingham University and contemptuous of ex-polys might be well advised to exercise discretion in airing these views. The vice-chancellor (and professor of economics) went to Liverpool Poly, now Liverpool John Moores. The Dean of the Faculty of Arts (and professor of philosophy) did his first degree at Huddersfield. In UCL economics you'd be very lucky to be taught by Professor Steve Machin, both because he's great and because he's shared with Harvard. He did his first degree at Wolverhampton.
Not that I disagree with you, but to be fair, all the people you stated as examples only did their first degree at an ex-poly. If you've done a postgrad degree, your first degree is pretty much irrelevant.
I'd imagine the discussion here is on the usefulness of just a bachelor's degree from an "ex-poly".
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by member591354
No, it is meaningless.
How?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Ive
A dude from a poly to whom apple now owes a huge chunk of its success as he is one of the few people on the planet capable of designing smartphones/laptops/computers/tablets that are not ugly as ****.
A dude from a poly to whom apple now owes a huge chunk of its success as he is one of the few people on the planet capable of designing smartphones/laptops/computers/tablets that are not ugly as ****.
(edited 11 years ago)
It depends where the poly is now and what degree.
Say you did a classical degree at a expoly which is now in the top 40. That is fine.
But if you did the same degree at a sub 50 uni, say history at Manchester Met, then you are wasting your time.
"Once enrolled in Walton, it became clear that he attained many technical and drawing skills through his father."
The uni didn't help him, his dad did. I know many people from NU who are sadly thick as ****. Personally I would never employ anyone from there.
Say you did a classical degree at a expoly which is now in the top 40. That is fine.
But if you did the same degree at a sub 50 uni, say history at Manchester Met, then you are wasting your time.
Original post by CEKTOP
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Ive
A dude from a poly to whom apple now owes a huge chunk of its success as he is one of the few people on the planet capable of designing smartphones/laptops/computers/tablets that are not ugly as ****.
A dude from a poly to whom apple now owes a huge chunk of its success as he is one of the few people on the planet capable of designing smartphones/laptops/computers/tablets that are not ugly as ****.
"Once enrolled in Walton, it became clear that he attained many technical and drawing skills through his father."
The uni didn't help him, his dad did. I know many people from NU who are sadly thick as ****. Personally I would never employ anyone from there.
(edited 11 years ago)
Most employers don't actually memorise league tables and decide whether or not to give someone a job based on them, so the answer for many cases is no, a degree from an ex-poly is certainly not worthless. League tables change every year and use very tenuous methods to measure how good a uni is anyway, so as long as you pick a university that does the course you want to do seeing as you're spending a lot of time and money on it and you enjoy the experience, that alone should mean the degree is worth doing.
There's so much more to a person's application than a brand name for a university.
There's so much more to a person's application than a brand name for a university.
Original post by Jimbo1234
It depends where the poly is now and what degree.
Say you did a classical degree at a expoly which is now in the top 40. That is fine.
But if you did the same degree at a sub 50 uni, say history at Manchester Met, then you are wasting your time.
"Once enrolled in Walton, it became clear that he attained many technical and drawing skills through his father."
The uni didn't help him, his dad did. I know many people from NU who are sadly thick as ****. Personally I would never employ anyone from there.
Say you did a classical degree at a expoly which is now in the top 40. That is fine.
But if you did the same degree at a sub 50 uni, say history at Manchester Met, then you are wasting your time.
"Once enrolled in Walton, it became clear that he attained many technical and drawing skills through his father."
The uni didn't help him, his dad did. I know many people from NU who are sadly thick as ****. Personally I would never employ anyone from there.
So based on a very small sample, you're casting aspersions on several thousand people who graduate from that particular university each year? Glad you're not in any position of power!
Original post by SpicyStrawberry
So based on a very small sample, you're casting aspersions on several thousand people who graduate from that particular university each year? Glad you're not in any position of power!
Or that is reality. Education is an elitist system. Getting a job is an elitist system. Going to a low ranking uni means you are at the bottom of this system.
Original post by Jimbo1234
Or that is reality. Education is an elitist system. Getting a job is an elitist system. Going to a low ranking uni means you are at the bottom of this system.
Or that is reality. Education is an elitist system. Getting a job is an elitist system. Going to a low ranking uni means you are at the bottom of this system.
1st class from MMU and first in my class > 2.2 from a "better" university with no experience or anything to particularly set you apart. Getting a job is sure elitist, but a uni brand name is not everything, and you'd be a fool to think so. I doubt the fact you went to one of the best unis in the country will get you past the autofilter if you got a crappy classification... Where do you get your information from? You sound completely inexperienced and uninformed about nearly everything you say.
certainly feels like it's worthless, can't get so much as an interview at the moment with a predicted 1st in accounting from northumbria.
Original post by SpicyStrawberry
1st class from MMU and first in my class > 2.2 from a "better" university with no experience or anything to particularly set you apart. Getting a job is sure elitist, but a uni brand name is not everything, and you'd be a fool to think so. I doubt the fact you went to one of the best unis in the country will get you past the autofilter if you got a crappy classification... Where do you get your information from? You sound completely inexperienced and uninformed about nearly everything you say.
Got proof of those figures, or are you just hoping that is the case?
A uni name makes a HUGE difference, and I do know this personally. Sure, having a 2:2 will block you in a lot, but once they look at the unis, this is when going to a good uni puts you in a short list, not the bin.
Also how many people get 2:1's in the humanities from top 30 unis anyway? The number is so huge that it really is a waste of time to try to compete from a sub 70 uni.
Original post by Jimbo1234
Got proof of those figures, or are you just hoping that is the case?
A uni name makes a HUGE difference, and I do know this personally. Sure, having a 2:2 will block you in a lot, but once they look at the unis, this is when going to a good uni puts you in a short list, not the bin.
Also how many people get 2:1's in the humanities from top 30 unis anyway? The number is so huge that it really is a waste of time to try to compete from a sub 70 uni.
A uni name makes a HUGE difference, and I do know this personally. Sure, having a 2:2 will block you in a lot, but once they look at the unis, this is when going to a good uni puts you in a short list, not the bin.
Also how many people get 2:1's in the humanities from top 30 unis anyway? The number is so huge that it really is a waste of time to try to compete from a sub 70 uni.
What figures? I never mentioned any.
The person who casts the aspersion needs to prove themselves, because otherwise your claims are completely unfounded. Prove Northampton graduates are all stupid, and I wish you good luck with that because IQ tests are rubbish and A-level results don't prove intelligence either.
Back what you put in bold up with company names because from what I've read if you don't make it past the autofilter you're binned. Who seriously has the time to look through people's applications who have 2.2s and below when the market is absolutely saturated with graduates who are much better with 2.1s and 1sts, better uni or not?
Original post by SpicyStrawberry
What figures? I never mentioned any.
The person who casts the aspersion needs to prove themselves, because otherwise your claims are completely unfounded. Prove Northampton graduates are all stupid, and I wish you good luck with that because IQ tests are rubbish and A-level results don't prove intelligence either.
Back what you put in bold up with company names because from what I've read if you don't make it past the autofilter you're binned. Who seriously has the time to look through people's applications who have 2.2s and below when the market is absolutely saturated with graduates who are much better with 2.1s and 1sts, better uni or not?
The person who casts the aspersion needs to prove themselves, because otherwise your claims are completely unfounded. Prove Northampton graduates are all stupid, and I wish you good luck with that because IQ tests are rubbish and A-level results don't prove intelligence either.
Back what you put in bold up with company names because from what I've read if you don't make it past the autofilter you're binned. Who seriously has the time to look through people's applications who have 2.2s and below when the market is absolutely saturated with graduates who are much better with 2.1s and 1sts, better uni or not?
"1st class from MMU and first in my class > 2.2 from a "better" university"
What are the entry grades for the same degree there as say any top 20 uni? That should be proof enough of the academic quality of the students.
How many companies use autofilters not recruitment companies/HR?
Also after you get past the auto filter stage with a 2:1, that is when your uni name will kill or boost you.
Original post by Jimbo1234
"1st class from MMU and first in my class > 2.2 from a "better" university"
What are the entry grades for the same degree there as say any top 20 uni? That should be proof enough of the academic quality of the students.
How many companies use autofilters not recruitment companies/HR?
Also after you get past the auto filter stage with a 2:1, that is when your uni name will kill or boost you.
What are the entry grades for the same degree there as say any top 20 uni? That should be proof enough of the academic quality of the students.
How many companies use autofilters not recruitment companies/HR?
Also after you get past the auto filter stage with a 2:1, that is when your uni name will kill or boost you.
Those aren't figures, that's a comparison. No need for the patronising facepalm when you don't know what you're talking about
That's easily backed up by the sheer fact that most graduate vacancies ask for a 2.1 or above. BBC article on the matter from 2010, competition is probably even fiercer now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10506798
Notice in particular that "graduates from particular universities" is the lowest in prevalence out of several factors.
I love winding you up, you always take the bait.
(edited 11 years ago)
No degree is worthless.
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