North Dakota has banned abortions

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Original post by jreid1994

Yeah, but women have reduced physical requirements for all of them fields so why should they be paid the same?

Posted from TSR Mobile

Because there is a threshold that has to be reached for the job to be given and anyone that meets that should have the job with a standard pay. The fact that less women will reach that threshold is not sexist, nor is it grounds to pay the ones that do less, as they've reached the threshold. If a really strong person (male or female) particularly excelled this would probably be reflected in bonuses or promotions.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 141

jreid1994

Original post by minimarshmallow

Because there is a threshold that has to be reached for the job to be given and anyone that meets that should have the job with a standard pay. If a really strong person (male or female) particularly excelled this would probably be reflected in bonuses or promotions.

Not true, women have got a Lower threshold for military positions. It's a well known fact in the military.
And why should I pay 18 years of CSA for sex?

I'm really really losing my trust in women by this thread.
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Reply 142

minimarshmallow

Original post by jreid1994

Not true, women have got a Lower threshold for military positions. It's a well known fact in the military.

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I don't know much about the specifics but if they're doing the same job (i.e. front line) then they must be deemed strong enough to do it. If this isn't the case then I don't agree with it.

Reply 143

Iron Lady

Original post by minimarshmallow

In her book she said she had an abortion because her family wouldn't be able to take the strain of another child. Almost exactly the same situation as my mum.

In her case it's still a child, and financial pressures are not applicable as they may be for the average family. She comes across as arrogant and very selfish. Me no her fan.

Reply 144

minimarshmallow

Original post by Iron Lady

In her case it's still a child, and financial pressures are not applicable as they may be for the average family. She comes across as arrogant and very selfish. Me no her fan.

I was just using Caitlin Moran as an example, you seem to keep ignoring my mother who was in the same situation. If she'd not had an abortion we'd have gone hungry because we wouldn't have had enough money.

Reply 145

jreid1994

Original post by minimarshmallow

I don't know much about the specifics but if they're doing the same job (i.e. front line) then they must be deemed strong enough to do it. If this isn't the case then I don't agree with it.

It is not the case, women's physio requirements arent anywhere near as intensive as the requirements for men.

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Reply 146

kaypc

Original post by WhimsyMelody

America--This is why I'm moving to the UK.

Pro-choice, personally pro-life, but not giving the person the ability to choose is unreasonable.
a) At what point does an egg, a zygote, an embryo obtain personhood? Is it REALLY killing? If so, when I expel an egg each month on my period, is that reckless abandonment? (watched legally blonde earlier today)
b) Foster care has proven to be pretty terrible. Why bring unwanted children into the world if you are unable to care for them?
c) The cells in fetal tissue have proven to be capable of remarkable things. Person doesn't want baby, researchers want aborted fetus, everybody wins?

Again, personally against abortions, but it's my body and I'm financially stable, unlike a lot of Americans.
Should be a person's choice.
The only discrepancy I see is when the father of the child wants to keep it, but the mother wants to abort. Then things can get a little fishy, but I guess the girl has final say because it is her body =/

lol, a) isn't even an argument because its not a fertilised egg so cannont be classified as a potential life. people disagree on when life begins but i've never heard anyone say it begins when we ovulate.

Reply 147

minimarshmallow

Original post by jreid1994

It is not the case, women's physio requirements arent anywhere near as intensive as the requirements for men.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Well then I disagree, unless there is another reason for this beyond the sex and hormone differences.

Reply 148

Iron Lady

Original post by minimarshmallow

I don't have an opinion on your mother as she probably wasn't offensive about it like C. Moran. I did say that abortions may be permitted in exceptional circumstances. But a pressing moral issue for me is that it's a potential life.

Reply 149

Kazbian

Original post by Ultimate1

Well if I don't want to pay child support should I never, in my entire life, be allowed to have sex? Don't be so ridiculous.

Original post by jreid1994

This^^

Posted from TSR Mobile

But this logic just doesn't follow, because it is the child who will suffer as a result.

It isn't fair that women have the biological burden of carrying the child, but that's just the way it is. She should be able to have control over her own body. I agree it isn't fair that the mother gets more control in whether there is or isn't a child, but it would be much worse if she didn't. That stops half of humanity from having control over their own bodies. If she decides not to abort the foetus and has the child, the key person involved in all this is the child. It doesn't matter that the mother could have chosen not to have it; she chose to have it, now there is a child involved and that child takes precedence. Both parents are obligated to provide for it, because the child is the innocent party and they will be the one suffering if either parent doesn't.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 150

minimarshmallow

Original post by Iron Lady

Why should these 'exceptional circumstances' be determined by people way outside the situation rather than dealt with by the woman and the two doctors (in the UK at least) she has to convince who are all familiar with the details on an individual basis?

Reply 151

rainbow.panda

Original post by Ultimate1

Well if I don't want to pay child support should I never, in my entire life, be allowed to have sex? Don't be so ridiculous.

I don't think you should have to pay child support for a child you didn't want.

Reply 152

kunoichi

Original post by jreid1994

Yeah, but women have reduced physical requirements for all of them fields so why should they be paid the same?

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Actually for firefighting they have to pass the same physical tests as men. My female cousin is a firefighter.

Reply 153

Iron Lady

Original post by minimarshmallow

I appreciate that and yes, it's decided by the woman.

However, I dislike reckless teenagers using it as a form of contraception. People need to be careful and respectful.

I'm laissez-faire usually, but when there are two parties involved, the mother and a pre-born baby, I am concerned and it's more complicated.

Reply 154

minimarshmallow

Original post by Iron Lady

Well that's down to medical professionals to deal with the underlying issue, not people to support blanket bans on abortions except in undefined 'exceptional circumstances'.
I personally think that a woman who hasn't seen a doctor or family planning clinic who is on say her second abortion should have an appointment made for counselling and at the family planning clinic before she leaves after the procedure.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 155

kunoichi

Original post by Iron Lady

I appreciate that and yes, it's decided by the woman.

However, I dislike reckless teenagers using it as a form of contraception. People need to be careful and respectful.

Some girl in my school didnt bother with contraception and aborted her baby, then still couldnt be bothered to go to a doctor and sort herself out, got pregnant with triplets and aborted all of them. People like that disgust me.

Reply 156

Beowulf

Original post by Popppppy

I'll address your NB first,
no I don't mean standard in the sense of a moral standard,
but if the majority of women don't have abortions, then this is the standard, and thus this is what's normal.

I think it's worse that you're saying they're normal.
For any woman, choosing to have an abortion is a decision not to be taken lightly and the woman will need support, be it from family, friends, her partner or even just the doctor or nurse.

An abortion, whether or not you agree that it's right or wrong, is a big deal.

I would be waryof defining what is 'normal' in such a simplistic way, and thus brandingeverything that the majority of people do not do as ‘abnormal’. For example, I think that going to church is anormal thing to do, however a small minority of people actually do it (in mysociety that is). The same applies to having a specific operation, themajority of people don't have this operation yet it doesn't mean it isn't'normal'. The word 'normal' itself is incredibly subjective and thus depends onthe person defining it. Supported by this very discussion.

What is wrongwith describing a medical procedure that a significant amount of women undergoas normal? Almost 200,000 women in the UK had an abortion in 2009 for example.These are women who obviously didn’t want to undergo this stressful event, yetfelt it was the best long-term option for both child and parent. Yet, yousuggest that it is in some way ‘abnormal’ and feel it is ‘disturbing’ (really?)for it to be regarded as normal in contemporary society. This is unhelpful anddoes little more than attach a social stigma to the procedure. In my view,these women should be regarded as normal, as should the medical procedure thatthey underwent.

No one isdisputing the gravitas of an abortion, thus I do not understand your ‘big deal’point. You’re just stating the obvious. Of course it is a ‘big deal’. Everyone who has ever been involved in one knowsthis, and so saying it is once again pointless and unhelpful. This doesn’t meanit should be demonised and treated as anything other than a normal procedure.

Reply 157

Iron Lady

Original post by minimarshmallow

Well that's down to medical professionals to deal with the underlying issue, not people to support blanket bans on abortions except in undefined 'exceptional circumstances'.

To me exceptional circumstances entail where the pregnant mother was not consenting (i.e. rape), the health of the mother is in doubt, or there is doubt that the child will be born into a stable home.

But the latter doesn't mean it should be killed. There are plenty of couples who would like a child. So I find it deplorable that people view abortion so liberally and with great insensitivity, i.e., "my body, my choice, ain't no-one else's business, I do what I like!" which is all well and good until there is a life. You wouldn't kill your neighbour, so why is this any different?

However if there literally isn't any choice, then fair enough. RIP, little fella.

Reply 158

minimarshmallow

Original post by kunoichi

This kind of thing should be very strongly discouraged, but still allowed. But she should have had compulsory appointments made for family planning etc. but she shouldn't have been made to have the children.