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Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing?
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Original post by stemitchell91
Well, what sort of answers would you expect to such a question? It would essentially be asking the government to explain their plans for the country as they stand at the moment. In other words: carry on as normal.
Presumably David Cameron is not presently sitting in his secret underground lair, plotting nuclear strikes on Scotland as soon as the referendum fails.
Presumably David Cameron is not presently sitting in his secret underground lair, plotting nuclear strikes on Scotland as soon as the referendum fails.
You're average Nat like to think that. Infact they like to think that everybody is out to get them.
They seem to forget that there's another 60 Million people that need to be treated equally. (As believe it or not, we all are.) But they'd much rather blame Westminster.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by MatureStudent36
Out and out lies there dear child. Health and education are devolved matters and as such it's holyrood that makes the decision on that one.
trident isn't going to cost us billions. It'll cost us 8.6% of £60 billion over a forty year life span so not a lot a year. And remember even if we separate as part of NATO we still get the joys of a nuclear umbrella.
the Scotland act has given us more powers.... And let's not forget those powers we already have but have chosen not to use so as to play the victim.
people don't want uncertainty and spin which is all the SNP has offered. Support has gone up this month but it went down last month and has hovered at the 30% mark for twenty years.
trident isn't going to cost us billions. It'll cost us 8.6% of £60 billion over a forty year life span so not a lot a year. And remember even if we separate as part of NATO we still get the joys of a nuclear umbrella.
the Scotland act has given us more powers.... And let's not forget those powers we already have but have chosen not to use so as to play the victim.
people don't want uncertainty and spin which is all the SNP has offered. Support has gone up this month but it went down last month and has hovered at the 30% mark for twenty years.
Westminster can take away the powers from the Scottish parliament AT ANY TIME by using the 'Bitter Together' anti-Independence majority at Westminster to pass the Scotland Act.
So can the 'Bitter Together' anti-Independence Axis make it clear NOW whether it intends to increase, decrease or leave as they are the powers of the Scottish Parliament?
Every single question must be answered by BOTH the YES and NO campaigns so that the people of Scotland can make an informed decision on 18th September 2014.
Original post by Maths Tutor
WHO is avoiding the questions?
Has the 'Bitter Together' anti-Independence Axis answered a SINGLE question to date on what Scotland can expect upon a NO vote?
Regarding avoiding questions, a few days ago you tried very hard to attack the SNP government for not spending funds which it had not even received. Can you perhaps now say exactly what funds you were talking about, when they were received from Westminster and how long they remained unspent?
Has the 'Bitter Together' anti-Independence Axis answered a SINGLE question to date on what Scotland can expect upon a NO vote?
Regarding avoiding questions, a few days ago you tried very hard to attack the SNP government for not spending funds which it had not even received. Can you perhaps now say exactly what funds you were talking about, when they were received from Westminster and how long they remained unspent?
The UK government said the Budget would result in:
•
The Scottish government getting an overall additional spending power of
£176m over the next two years under Barnett funding consequentials.
•
This includes a £55m increase in 2013-14 and a £121m increase in 2014-15,
coming from a £279m increase in capital funding, with a reduction in the
resource budget by £103m.
•
A cut of 0.2% to the Scottish budget, "about a fifth experienced by most UK
departments".
•
An extra £1.7bn for the Scottish government on top of what was originally
announced in the 2010 Spending Review.
Original post by stemitchell91
carry on as normal.
Why is the 'Bitter Together' anti-Independence Axis TERRIFIED of saying that in black and white?
'There will be no new powers for the Scottish parliament in the event of a No vote. Things will remain as they are.'
Original post by Maths Tutor
Westminster can take away the powers from the Scottish parliament AT ANY TIME by using the 'Bitter Together' anti-Independence majority at Westminster to pass the Scotland Act.
So can the 'Bitter Together' anti-Independence Axis make it clear NOW whether it intends to increase, decrease or leave as they are the powers of the Scottish Parliament?
Every single question must be answered by BOTH the YES and NO campaigns so that the people of Scotland can make an informed decision on 18th September 2014.
So can the 'Bitter Together' anti-Independence Axis make it clear NOW whether it intends to increase, decrease or leave as they are the powers of the Scottish Parliament?
Every single question must be answered by BOTH the YES and NO campaigns so that the people of Scotland can make an informed decision on 18th September 2014.
Holy Sh1t. The Paranoia is strong in you.
Who's taking what powers away from us? Sources please?
You're the one who wants to seperate. The referendum is for that and that alone. Devolution is a continual process and it may have missed you by that the Scotland Act has recently been passed giving us, guess what. More Powers.
You need a catchier strap line. It's too long.
But you'll generally find that it's up to the Yes Scotland to do the sales pitch on this one and convince people. Not the other way round. You're coming at it from a minority position.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by MatureStudent36
You're average Nat like to think that. Infact they like to think that everybody is out to get them.
They seem to forget that there's another 60 Million people that need to be teated equally. But they'd much rather blame Westminster.
They seem to forget that there's another 60 Million people that need to be teated equally. But they'd much rather blame Westminster.
Indeed, there seems to be this mentality that Scotland is somehow more important than any other part of the UK. Every Scottish nationalist I've ever discussed the issue with in person seems to be under the impression that Westminster involves a series of "Scotland vs England showdowns", where English MPs vote down everything that "we want".
Original post by Maths Tutor
Westminster can take away the powers from the Scottish parliament AT ANY TIME by using the 'Bitter Together' anti-Independence majority at Westminster to pass the Scotland Act.
And yet, for all the years that the Scottish parliament has existed, such a thing hasn't been done. Those evil Englishmen, letting us keep our parliament. *shakes fist*
Original post by Maths Tutor
Every single question must be answered by BOTH the YES and NO campaigns so that the people of Scotland can make an informed decision on 18th September 2014.
And yet the SNP seem determined not to answer any really important questions. You'd think that with the referendum date confirmed, we'd know what currency we'd be using as an independent state.
Original post by Maths Tutor
Why is the 'Bitter Together' anti-Independence Axis TERRIFIED of saying that in black and white?
'There will be no new powers for the Scottish parliament in the event of a No vote. Things will remain as they are.'
'There will be no new powers for the Scottish parliament in the event of a No vote. Things will remain as they are.'
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/11/contents/enacted
There's that for starters.
That's in black and white....... with some blue as well.
I'll take it with this line of questioning you're not really after seperation are you. You've been told to push the extra powers bit....Just in case.
Original post by stemitchell91
Indeed, there seems to be this mentality that Scotland is somehow more important than any other part of the UK. Every Scottish nationalist I've ever discussed the issue with in person seems to be under the impression that Westminster involves a series of "Scotland vs England showdowns", where English MPs vote down everything that "we want".
They're clever enough not to say the English. It's Westminster and London.... They convieniently ignore the fact that London and the South East seem to do alright by themselves. It's the North of England, Wales and Northern Ireland that are needing help........They're the ones that need to start pulling their weight.
And yet, for all the years that the Scottish parliament has existed, such a thing hasn't been done. Those evil Englishmen, letting us keep our parliament. *shakes fist*
Always seems to be forgotten that Westminster is representative of the whole UK.
And yet the SNP seem determined not to answer any really important questions. You'd think that with the referendum date confirmed, we'd know what currency we'd be using as an independent state.
Agreed. They don't seem to like answering questions as they always seem to get caught out with the truth. I know Maths Tutor will say we'll keep the pound. But Zimbabwe uses the Dollar.....Doesn't mean the Feds going to act as their lender of last resort.
They're clever enough not to say the English. It's Westminster and London.... They convieniently ignore the fact that London and the South East seem to do alright by themselves. It's the North of England, Wales and Northern Ireland that are needing help........They're the ones that need to start pulling their weight.
And yet, for all the years that the Scottish parliament has existed, such a thing hasn't been done. Those evil Englishmen, letting us keep our parliament. *shakes fist*
Always seems to be forgotten that Westminster is representative of the whole UK.
And yet the SNP seem determined not to answer any really important questions. You'd think that with the referendum date confirmed, we'd know what currency we'd be using as an independent state.
Agreed. They don't seem to like answering questions as they always seem to get caught out with the truth. I know Maths Tutor will say we'll keep the pound. But Zimbabwe uses the Dollar.....Doesn't mean the Feds going to act as their lender of last resort.
My concern, and it is becoming a concern now from seeing the frothing their supporters are doing is what happens when they loose?
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by MatureStudent36
My concern, and it is becoming a concern now from seeing the frothing their supporters are doing is what happens when they loose?
My concern, and it is becoming a concern now from seeing the frothing their supporters are doing is what happens when they loose?
Big Eck shall don his finest ginger wig and claymore, and lead us to London. Either that, or it was all part of his Master Plan to build support and raise awareness, so that when the second (the real one, of course) referednum comes along we'll be ready.
Sadly, I imagine that having them go all quiet and crawl back into their holes is too much to hope for.
Original post by stemitchell91
Big Eck shall don his finest ginger wig and claymore, and lead us to London. Either that, or it was all part of his Master Plan to build support and raise awareness, so that when the second (the real one, of course) referednum comes along we'll be ready.
Sadly, I imagine that having them go all quiet and crawl back into their holes is too much to hope for.
Sadly, I imagine that having them go all quiet and crawl back into their holes is too much to hope for.
They won't. We can't un invent the internet. It used to be a case of you're average Nat being the whiney odd ball in the corner of the pub who just couldn't let it go. Now, they're keyboard warriors with a belief that they represent that Scotlands Voice.
Original post by MatureStudent36
Holy Sh1t. The Paranoia is strong in you.
Who's taking what powers away from us? Sources please?
You're the one who wants to seperate. The referendum is for that and that alone. Devolution is a continual process and it may have missed you by that the Scotland Act has recently been passed giving us, guess what. More Powers.
Who's taking what powers away from us? Sources please?
You're the one who wants to seperate. The referendum is for that and that alone. Devolution is a continual process and it may have missed you by that the Scotland Act has recently been passed giving us, guess what. More Powers.
Since you didn't get it the first time, I will repeat it:
Every single question must be answered by BOTH the YES and NO campaigns so that the people of Scotland can make an informed decision on 18th September 2014.
For example:
YES campaign:
In the event of a YES vote, Scotland will remain a member of the European Union from Day 1, having negotiated its membership terms during the period from 19th September 2014 to the actual day of Independence.
NO campaign:
In the event of a NO vote, Scotland might not remain a member of the European Union (as part of the UK) in the event of a NO vote in an IN-OUT referendum in the UK after 2016.
THE VOTERS OF SCOTLAND CAN THEN DECIDE WHO IS LYING AND WHOM TO TRUST. Or you don't agree with that?
Original post by Maths Tutor
Since you didn't get it the first time, I will repeat it:
Every single question must be answered by BOTH the YES and NO campaigns so that the people of Scotland can make an informed decision on 18th September 2014.
For example:
YES campaign:
In the event of a YES vote, Scotland will remain a member of the European Union from Day 1, having negotiated its membership terms during the period from 19th September 2014 to the actual day of Independence.
NO campaign:
In the event of a NO vote, Scotland might not remain a member of the European Union (as part of the UK) in the event of a NO vote in an IN-OUT referendum in the UK after 2016.
THE VOTERS OF SCOTLAND CAN THEN DECIDE WHO IS LYING AND WHOM TO TRUST. Or you don't agree with that?
Every single question must be answered by BOTH the YES and NO campaigns so that the people of Scotland can make an informed decision on 18th September 2014.
For example:
YES campaign:
In the event of a YES vote, Scotland will remain a member of the European Union from Day 1, having negotiated its membership terms during the period from 19th September 2014 to the actual day of Independence.
NO campaign:
In the event of a NO vote, Scotland might not remain a member of the European Union (as part of the UK) in the event of a NO vote in an IN-OUT referendum in the UK after 2016.
THE VOTERS OF SCOTLAND CAN THEN DECIDE WHO IS LYING AND WHOM TO TRUST. Or you don't agree with that?
You may want to have a read of that big man.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/independence-economist-attacks-evidence-in-debate-1-2857358
It would Appear that Salmonds former economic advisor has said teh SNP has been Cavailer in its assumptions.
But in response to you're earlier rant, sorry, but many of us need some facts. The No camp seem to be giving those facts out, not assumptions......not we'll find out who's telling the truth after the event. The SNP has been caught out blatantly telling porkie pies too many times.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Maths Tutor
As far as I know, it is a long standing policy, but I could be mistaken.
But why don't you answer the question about the Tories, Labour and Lib-Dems' policy on lowering the voting age to 16? Surely the answer wouldn't expose their hypocrisy would it?
But why don't you answer the question about the Tories, Labour and Lib-Dems' policy on lowering the voting age to 16? Surely the answer wouldn't expose their hypocrisy would it?
Original post by Midlander
So you don't know then.
I answered the question, why don't YOU?
Original post by Maths Tutor
Every single question must be answered by BOTH the YES and NO campaigns so that the people of Scotland can make an informed decision on 18th September 2014.
Every single question must be answered by BOTH the YES and NO campaigns so that the people of Scotland can make an informed decision on 18th September 2014.
That would indeed be wonderful, but again, the SNP don't seem interested in such a thing.
Original post by Maths Tutor
For example:
YES campaign:
In the event of a YES vote, Scotland will remain a member of the European Union from Day 1, having negotiated its membership terms during the period from 19th September 2014 to the actual day of Independence.
NO campaign:
In the event of a NO vote, Scotland might not remain a member of the European Union (as part of the UK) in the event of a NO vote in an IN-OUT referendum in the UK after 2016.
THE VOTERS OF SCOTLAND CAN THEN DECIDE WHO IS LYING AND WHOM TO TRUST. Or you don't agree with that?
YES campaign:
In the event of a YES vote, Scotland will remain a member of the European Union from Day 1, having negotiated its membership terms during the period from 19th September 2014 to the actual day of Independence.
NO campaign:
In the event of a NO vote, Scotland might not remain a member of the European Union (as part of the UK) in the event of a NO vote in an IN-OUT referendum in the UK after 2016.
THE VOTERS OF SCOTLAND CAN THEN DECIDE WHO IS LYING AND WHOM TO TRUST. Or you don't agree with that?
Well, I'd really prefer to be provided with facts, rather than have to work out which side is lying to me. This is something I'm not sure of: can Scotland actually negotiate entry into the EU before it becomes independent? Or do we have to wait until Scotland actually "exists" as a separate state?
Original post by Maths Tutor
I answered the question, why don't YOU?
But you haven't. You kept going on a bout 16 year olds having the vote. I asked if the SNP will be aligning all age related matters so we will allow a 16 year old to drink, smoke and do jury service at 16?
You haven't answered anything.
Thought I'd have a quick google of my own question, didn't really answer it but I did find this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9856083/Alistair-Darling-Scotland-faces-nine-year-wait-to-join-EU.html
I'm not sure if this has been brought up earlier (I'd hope that it has though), but apparently the average wait for EU applications to be successful is around 10 years. Scotland being an EU member from "day one" seems highly unlikely.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9856083/Alistair-Darling-Scotland-faces-nine-year-wait-to-join-EU.html
I'm not sure if this has been brought up earlier (I'd hope that it has though), but apparently the average wait for EU applications to be successful is around 10 years. Scotland being an EU member from "day one" seems highly unlikely.
Original post by stemitchell91
Thought I'd have a quick google of my own question, didn't really answer it but I did find this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9856083/Alistair-Darling-Scotland-faces-nine-year-wait-to-join-EU.html
I'm not sure if this has been brought up earlier (I'd hope that it has though), but apparently the average wait for EU applications to be successful is around 10 years. Scotland being an EU member from "day one" seems highly unlikely.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/9856083/Alistair-Darling-Scotland-faces-nine-year-wait-to-join-EU.html
I'm not sure if this has been brought up earlier (I'd hope that it has though), but apparently the average wait for EU applications to be successful is around 10 years. Scotland being an EU member from "day one" seems highly unlikely.
It's muddled at best. I think there's a whole host of members waiting to join who will cause a fuss, and there's no wish for a lot of existing member states to let it happen quickly to quieten there own successionist movements down.
Either way, we'll be bargaining from a position of weakness and no matter how much oil, fish or wind we've got, 2008 has made a lot of EU nations very wary.
Original post by MatureStudent36
It's muddled at best. I think there's a whole host of members waiting to join who will cause a fuss, and there's no wish for a lot of existing member states to let it happen quickly to quieten there own successionist movements down.
Either way, we'll be bargaining from a position of weakness and no matter how much oil, fish or wind we've got, 2008 has made a lot of EU nations very wary.
Either way, we'll be bargaining from a position of weakness and no matter how much oil, fish or wind we've got, 2008 has made a lot of EU nations very wary.
Indeed, while I'd never come out and say that we'll most definitely be waiting over a decade, the idea that seems popular among many nationalists, that we can jump straight into the EU, doesn't really seem to be based on anything. I just can't imagine that an independent Scotland can negotiate anything like as good a deal as the UK has with the EU.
Original post by MatureStudent36
The UK government said the Budget would result in:
•
The Scottish government getting an overall additional spending power of
£176m over the next two years under Barnett funding consequentials.
•
This includes a £55m increase in 2013-14 and a £121m increase in 2014-15,
coming from a £279m increase in capital funding, with a reduction in the
resource budget by £103m.
•
A cut of 0.2% to the Scottish budget, "about a fifth experienced by most UK
departments".
•
An extra £1.7bn for the Scottish government on top of what was originally
announced in the 2010 Spending Review.
BLATANT LIES by the Tories. Check it out at First Minister's Questions on 21st March 2013:
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/newsandmediacentre/32362.aspx
Original post by stemitchell91
Indeed, while I'd never come out and say that we'll most definitely be waiting over a decade, the idea that seems popular among many nationalists, that we can jump straight into the EU, doesn't really seem to be based on anything. I just can't imagine that an independent Scotland can negotiate anything like as good a deal as the UK has with the EU.
And then there's the United Nations, International Monetary fund and the World Trade Organisation. There the big ones that worry me, and we're not getting straight into those.
Anyway, I knwo Maths Tutor will say I'm Scaremongering. But I'm genereally happy with what we've got at the moment........ok things are crappy at the moment, but they're crappy everywhere so I'm not being hard done by.
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