The VET TIMES!
Okay, changed my idea. Instead I think we should have a current news thread 
. This will help people keep up with and discuss the current news in the field 
. Feel free to post any interesting articles below!
. This will help people keep up with and discuss the current news in the field . Feel free to post any interesting articles below!(edited 11 years ago)
Horse meat is old news. Only the BBC cared.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by stuart_aitken
Avoiding trolls on this forum of course. If you've got nothing good to say, stop wasting space.
Trolls 
Quite simply - beef is incredibly expensive and criminals moved in - replaced it with cheap horse meat and boom they made a vast amount of money!
Beef is expensive whilst supermarkets and consumers want it dirt cheap - so the vacuum was filled with horses. To fix the problem - increase the amount of money payed for beef!
Some regular testing of what meat products probably wouldnt be a bad thing either.
Edit:
This thread was on current topics - and the starting debate was on the horsemeat scandal.... then the thread changes 
Quite simply - beef is incredibly expensive and criminals moved in - replaced it with cheap horse meat and boom they made a vast amount of money!
Beef is expensive whilst supermarkets and consumers want it dirt cheap - so the vacuum was filled with horses. To fix the problem - increase the amount of money payed for beef!
Some regular testing of what meat products probably wouldnt be a bad thing either.
Edit:
This thread was on current topics - and the starting debate was on the horsemeat scandal.... then the thread changes (edited 11 years ago)
Original post by skatealexia
Avoiding trolls on this forum of course. If you've got nothing good to say, stop wasting space.
Eh? That was my opinion on the topic! Much ado about nothing. OK it was newsworthy, but for how long?
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Angry cucumber
Trolls
Quite simply - beef is incredibly expensive and criminals moved in - replaced it with cheap horse meat and boom they made a vast amount of money!
Beef is expensive whilst supermarkets and consumers want it dirt cheap - so the vacuum was filled with horses. To fix the problem - increase the amount of money payed for beef!
Some regular testing of what meat products probably wouldnt be a bad thing either.
Edit: This thread was on current topics - and the starting debate was on the horsemeat scandal.... then the thread changes
Quite simply - beef is incredibly expensive and criminals moved in - replaced it with cheap horse meat and boom they made a vast amount of money!
Beef is expensive whilst supermarkets and consumers want it dirt cheap - so the vacuum was filled with horses. To fix the problem - increase the amount of money payed for beef!
Some regular testing of what meat products probably wouldnt be a bad thing either.
Edit:
This thread was on current topics - and the starting debate was on the horsemeat scandal.... then the thread changes Increase the price for whom? The consumer? Not sure you mean by this point so hope you can clarify
I agree regular testing is a good idea for public safety, and I am surprised why this isn't carried out already.
I think this incident really affected the consumer's trust in the supermarket and meat chain which is a huge shame and also a let down for everyone who identified their animals correctly.
I don't think the issues was that horse meat was in food, people can choose to eat this if they wish even if others consider them to only be companion animals, rather that the products were mislabelled and that there was a breakdown in the paperwork and it was unclear if food safety was at risk - ie whether these horses were drug (bute) free or not.
Original post by stuart_aitken
Eh? That was my opinion on the topic! Much ado about nothing. OK it was newsworthy, but for how long?
As others have said, although this is your opinion, it doesn't really add anything to this discussion.
If we don't know what is in our food and what drugs it has been treated with, this is a huge concern for public safety and also may infringe on a customer's morals (e.g. they choose not to eat horses for whatever reason). This may be old news now, but certainly not unimportant for the majority of UK consumers!
Good idea Skatealexia!
I'm not sure if this is going to be helpful, but there's a Facebook page called I F*cking Love Science (hopefully I don't get done for swear filter avoidance, that is genuinely the name of the page
). Every week they publish an image titled 'This Week in Science', which is good for current affairs and such. Not everything is going to be vet related, but there's usually a fair few animal related stories. This week, for example, researchers imagined the real-time activity of almost every neuron in the brain of zebrafish larvae , giant squid from all around the world were found to belong to a single species, and a new species of newt that looks just like a crocodile was found in Vietnam.
They'll most likely be really minor stories compared to news like horse meat, but still, it might interest some people.
I'm not sure if this is going to be helpful, but there's a Facebook page called I F*cking Love Science (hopefully I don't get done for swear filter avoidance, that is genuinely the name of the page
). Every week they publish an image titled 'This Week in Science', which is good for current affairs and such. Not everything is going to be vet related, but there's usually a fair few animal related stories. This week, for example, researchers imagined the real-time activity of almost every neuron in the brain of zebrafish larvae , giant squid from all around the world were found to belong to a single species, and a new species of newt that looks just like a crocodile was found in Vietnam. They'll most likely be really minor stories compared to news like horse meat, but still, it might interest some people.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by SilverstarDJ
Increase the price for whom? The consumer? Not sure you mean by this point so hope you can clarify
I agree regular testing is a good idea for public safety, and I am surprised why this isn't carried out already.
I think this incident really affected the consumer's trust in the supermarket and meat chain which is a huge shame and also a let down for everyone who identified their animals correctly.
I don't think the issues was that horse meat was in food, people can choose to eat this if they wish even if others consider them to only be companion animals, rather that the products were mislabelled and that there was a breakdown in the paperwork and it was unclear if food safety was at risk - ie whether these horses were drug (bute) free or not.
If we don't know what is in our food and what drugs it has been treated with, this is a huge concern for public safety and also may infringe on a customer's morals (e.g. they choose not to eat horses for whatever reason). This may be old news now, but certainly not unimportant for the majority of UK consumers!
I agree regular testing is a good idea for public safety, and I am surprised why this isn't carried out already.
I think this incident really affected the consumer's trust in the supermarket and meat chain which is a huge shame and also a let down for everyone who identified their animals correctly.
I don't think the issues was that horse meat was in food, people can choose to eat this if they wish even if others consider them to only be companion animals, rather that the products were mislabelled and that there was a breakdown in the paperwork and it was unclear if food safety was at risk - ie whether these horses were drug (bute) free or not.
If we don't know what is in our food and what drugs it has been treated with, this is a huge concern for public safety and also may infringe on a customer's morals (e.g. they choose not to eat horses for whatever reason). This may be old news now, but certainly not unimportant for the majority of UK consumers!
the welfare of some of the horses in the food chain and the fact that some where not raised for meat is also really worrying
tho im hoping that although consumer confidence will be damaged and the price of beef will rise it will lead to the use of English beef which can be tracked and English slaughter houses and so helping to support local farmers
also i agree that testing meat more often will be a good thing as it should heep meat standards high
Original post by amethyst<3
the welfare of some of the horses in the food chain and the fact that some where not raised for meat is also really worrying
tho im hoping that although consumer confidence will be damaged and the price of beef will rise it will lead to the use of English beef which can be tracked and English slaughter houses and so helping to support local farmers
also i agree that testing meat more often will be a good thing as it should heep meat standards high
tho im hoping that although consumer confidence will be damaged and the price of beef will rise it will lead to the use of English beef which can be tracked and English slaughter houses and so helping to support local farmers
also i agree that testing meat more often will be a good thing as it should heep meat standards high
Price of beef won't necessarily increase (well, it probably will but due to increased fuel costs / feed), but the price of beef ready meals might of course.
I don't disagree that we should support British farmers, but the UK is not self sufficient in meat in general, so a lot of it still has to be imported to meet demands of the public. Plus, if people can't really afford to buy British then those people will still buy imported foods. I also don't think labelling for fast foods or ready meals is clear where the meet is from.
Also, as we've seen in the news, some UK abattoirs have been accused of abusing their animals, so we can't even be sure that UK slaughterhouses are up to standards. I agree what you mean by horses welfare too.
Original post by SilverstarDJ
Increase the price for whom? The consumer? Not sure you mean by this point so hope you can clarify
I agree regular testing is a good idea for public safety, and I am surprised why this isn't carried out already.
I think this incident really affected the consumer's trust in the supermarket and meat chain which is a huge shame and also a let down for everyone who identified their animals correctly.
I don't think the issues was that horse meat was in food, people can choose to eat this if they wish even if others consider them to only be companion animals, rather that the products were mislabelled and that there was a breakdown in the paperwork and it was unclear if food safety was at risk - ie whether these horses were drug (bute) free or not.
I agree regular testing is a good idea for public safety, and I am surprised why this isn't carried out already.
I think this incident really affected the consumer's trust in the supermarket and meat chain which is a huge shame and also a let down for everyone who identified their animals correctly.
I don't think the issues was that horse meat was in food, people can choose to eat this if they wish even if others consider them to only be companion animals, rather that the products were mislabelled and that there was a breakdown in the paperwork and it was unclear if food safety was at risk - ie whether these horses were drug (bute) free or not.
Increasing beef prices for the consumer - as that money would then pass down the chain meaning that horse meat wouldnt be such a lucrative thing to add to the meat.
I hope that makes sense
And yes - I agree its the mislabelling and that bute contamination was present is the problem.
Original post by Angry cucumber
Increasing beef prices for the consumer - as that money would then pass down the chain meaning that horse meat wouldnt be such a lucrative thing to add to the meat.
I hope that makes sense
I hope that makes sense
I'm not sure I 100% understand you, but I don't think would make horse meat less lucrative. Supermarkets (and all the other middle men) are always keen to reduce their production costs to get as much profit as possible. Plus there is drive from consumers to produce cheap ready meals / processed foods - non-meat substitutes are already used in value burgers which enables them to be sold for a cheaper price. Plus, as poor student I like meat and it's as expensive at it is
- I don't think the customer should pay the price for the fact that others are cutting corners.Original post by SilverstarDJ
I'm not sure I 100% understand you, but I don't think would make horse meat less lucrative. Supermarkets (and all the other middle men) are always keen to reduce their production costs to get as much profit as possible. Plus there is drive from consumers to produce cheap ready meals / processed foods - non-meat substitutes are already used in value burgers which enables them to be sold for a cheaper price. Plus, as poor student I like meat and it's as expensive at it is - I don't think the customer should pay the price for the fact that others are cutting corners.
- I don't think the customer should pay the price for the fact that others are cutting corners.I'm a poor student too
Prices for the consumer have barely risen at all whilst input costs have gone through the roof! Corners will always be cut by those who are unscrumpulous - but getting fair prices through the whole system would reduce the lucrativeness of it
Original post by Angry cucumber
I'm a poor student too
Prices for the consumer have barely risen at all whilst input costs have gone through the roof! Corners will always be cut by those who are unscrumpulous - but getting fair prices through the whole system would reduce the lucrativeness of it
Prices for the consumer have barely risen at all whilst input costs have gone through the roof! Corners will always be cut by those who are unscrumpulous - but getting fair prices through the whole system would reduce the lucrativeness of it
I agree input costs have increased, but disagree that consumer prices haven't increased (but not at the same rate as feed costs). Although it isn't just meat, I know my mum pays more for our weekly food shop than 5 years ago, for instance.
" In 2012 we saw a 22% fall in the farmgate lamb price despite an increase in the price on the supermarket shelves. "
http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/08/03/2013/138048/supermarkets-challenged-over-farmgate-lamb-prices.htm
I agree everyone should get their fair share of a "fair" price (however you'd define that, I'm not sure) for their part in the production line, but consumers want cheap food, and supermarkets and middle men want big profits. I think, in this scandal, the question is: did the Romanians deliberately sell horse meat as very cheap "beef" (ie corners were not cut deliberately by the food processors and the Romanians just wanted to sell their meat) or did the buyer know that it wasn't really beef and just turned a blind eye to keep their profits higher (ie corners were indeed cut and someone was very much aware of this)?
"The Romanian authorities claim records show orders had been for horse carcass - easily distinguishable from beef. " - but how reliable is this statement? I don't think we'll ever know! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21335872
I wouldn't put it past the supermarkets to do what they can to make a profit however saying that i have no idea how organised the Romanian meat production chain is and how far down the chain the beef was switched for horse :s
on the pricing thing ( not completely sure i understand all the points ) but would you not prefer to buy meat where you no the welfare standards are high and you no where it came from and pay a bit more just have it less often??? Also with the hopefully improved standards and testing there might be improved standards of meat in burgers and other processed food which would also be beneficial to health ( i no this is an idealistic view as where there is demand for cheap meat someone will produce and profit off it )
The UK isnt self sufficient at the minuet but putting more money into local farmers will help the farming industry grow so we can become more self sufficient in the future ( i saw somewhere that we have the potential to meet most of the uks requirements but it will take a few years tho im not entirely sure this is true id have to look it up again :s ) although i appreciate we would still have to trade with other countries for example with lamb as we produce it once a year
on the pricing thing ( not completely sure i understand all the points ) but would you not prefer to buy meat where you no the welfare standards are high and you no where it came from and pay a bit more just have it less often??? Also with the hopefully improved standards and testing there might be improved standards of meat in burgers and other processed food which would also be beneficial to health ( i no this is an idealistic view as where there is demand for cheap meat someone will produce and profit off it )
The UK isnt self sufficient at the minuet but putting more money into local farmers will help the farming industry grow so we can become more self sufficient in the future ( i saw somewhere that we have the potential to meet most of the uks requirements but it will take a few years tho im not entirely sure this is true id have to look it up again :s ) although i appreciate we would still have to trade with other countries for example with lamb as we produce it once a year
Original post by amethyst<3
on the pricing thing ( not completely sure i understand all the points ) but would you not prefer to buy meat where you no the welfare standards are high and you no where it came from and pay a bit more just have it less often???
on the pricing thing ( not completely sure i understand all the points ) but would you not prefer to buy meat where you no the welfare standards are high and you no where it came from and pay a bit more just have it less often???
I guess that leads to another topical issue, and that is of food labelling. With so many farm assurance schemes, most of the public aren't very sure what they mean and it's not clear what the standards are. And to be honest, I wouldn't be able to compare between them e.g. Red Tractor & RSPCA freedom from foods. Furthermore, the assessments need to be very robust, objective and carried out randomly. I've seen this before when farm were clearing up mess up because they knew an inspection was coming up! I've also heard an anecdote that a vet tried to bring a farm to court on welfare grounds, but that they still complied with the red tractor. The labelling isn't clear enough and leaves much to be desired.
Original post by SilverstarDJ
I guess that leads to another topical issue, and that is of food labelling. With so many farm assurance schemes, most of the public aren't very sure what they mean and it's not clear what the standards are. And to be honest, I wouldn't be able to compare between them e.g. Red Tractor & RSPCA freedom from foods. Furthermore, the assessments need to be very robust, objective and carried out randomly. I've seen this before when farm were clearing up mess up because they knew an inspection was coming up! I've also heard an anecdote that a vet tried to bring a farm to court on welfare grounds, but that they still complied with the red tractor. The labelling isn't clear enough and leaves much to be desired.
I agree when I looked at the requirements of the red tractor I remember how shocked I was with its requirements as they were not as good as I thought they were the labeling system definitely needs to be clearer and less of them would definitely help people recognize and remember more about each label
I dont no much about the assessments on food standard labeling but i agree that they would have to be random as farms may make mistakes but they could also ( depending on how much notice is given ) improve there standards just for the assessment ( cynical i no :s )
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