Army rubbish

They haven't learnt to deal with crap? I don't think people should have to learn that

They haven't learnt to deal with crap? I don't think people should have to learn that

How did this suddenly become an attack on what I said? All I said was my interpretation and openly said I may well be wrong

Because that interpretation is seemingly based on, at best, too many bad tv shows and films and, at worst, a thinly veiled dislike of the Armed Forces in general.

How do you know what my interpretation is based on? I would be willing to bet most people who on here who seem to think I've said something so dreadful have absolutely no first hand experience either

Keyword being "seemingly", not "is".

If it was based on experience of serving yourself then you almost definitely wouldn't have raised the point in the first place. And wouldn't have phrased it like that either.

Yes there are knee jerk reactions, but there are also balanced ones. Discarding the balanced and reasoned ones because of a few knee jerk ones is silly and counter productive.


And then when people have come back at you with explained reasons about why you're interpretation is wrong - in their opinion - you've ignored their comments and carried on fighting. Those aren't the actions of someone looking to have their opinion challenged.

What "balanced" reaction have I actually unfairly argued?

What "balanced" reaction have I actually unfairly argued?


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Again, you're putting words into my mouth. Did I once say unfairly?


You've ignored answers from people telling you why it's done, instead going off on a tangent about why a different approach would be better ignoring the fact that it's done in a certain way to illicit a certain reaction from those receiving it.
Every recruit gets many tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of pounds spent on them to get them where they need to be, both physically and mentally. If this was pointless and outdated don't you think it would have been completely abandoned by now? And abandoned by every other military force on the planet? Can't you safely assume that everybody [And I really do mean everybody] teaches certain elements of military life the same way because it works? In this day and age where certainly our military is more and more accountable for everythig it does and spends money on, waste would be sought out and eradicated.

The training and behaviour you've talked about is a microcosm and a stereotype. Yes some of it happens, but some of it does not. And when it does happen it's not dragged out nor made a big thing of. The mistake, if I can put it that way, is that your words make it sound like you believe that's how life in the military operates 24/7/365. And that's a complete lie.

In every post I've replied to I have not ignored anything. As for the idea that everyone does so it's the best way I've explained why I think that's wrong

And consequently we, the people who've been there and done that, have told you why the 'other approach' isn't as effective.

Again, the type of behaviour you're railing against is designed for a specific purpose. It is not designed to train someone, for example, how to re-wire an aircraft engine. Or correctly administrate the records of a battalion of troops about to go on deployment. Or run a surgery in a Field Hospital. Or fly a Typhoon at 250ft and 450mph at night. It is designed so that when individuals are out getting shot at, when their stress is at the highest it will ever be, that they know how to react to an order.

There are very very few jobs in the world where stress is as high and lives are at risk in quite the same way. Outside of the military the only thing that really comes close would be riot police and firefighters. And guess what? They use the same approach too.

If you can think of anyway to replicate that level of stress to make for a more effective training environment, to do so cheaply and in a sequential progressive way building in elements as you go, then please get in touch with the MoD.

Fact is, whether you want to accept it or not, the system works. It's done for a reason, for an outcome, and it achieves that outcome better than any other known method of training for that particular and specific case. It's unfair and unrealistic to use civilian life and civilian training as a comparison for what the military does and needs to be ready to do.

So even those people who have been through army training know a softer or just different approach wouldn't work? I'm not sure how that's really possible.

Well if the purpose is to replicate stress then I don't see how very strict discipline can prepare you for the same level of stress as being shot at or killing a person.

Well without testing other methods how could you or anyone else know that? If it's done for an outcome I'm not sure how successful it is, the outcome in Iraq and Afghanistan hasn't been to impressive

Because they know the reality of it, unlike someone just basing the opinion on what they think they see. The people who've been through it know it's done for a reason and that it gets them through what they're doing.

Oh, so because you don't see it we should stop? Now I understand completely

Congratulations, you've just made 2 + 2 = A hedgehog. And succeeded in making yourself sound exceptionally stupid.

Isn't the army for people that can't think for themselves?

I personally couldn't be in a place where people have a significant authority over me, those people get treated and shouted at like dogs

Interesting equation. How have I made myself look stupid? Would you say the war in Iraq and Afghanistan has been a success? (If you say yes then I think it'll be you that looks "exceptionally stupid")

Well taking Iraq as an example, for the actual soldiering part i.e. army to army the Iraqi forces were dealt with in short order. That's what all that shouting would prepare the troops for. Not so much winning the peace.