Army rubbish

Original post by LewisG123

The military operation in Iraq hasn't been at all successful. We helped the most heavily funded military in the world beat a far inferior and outnumbered army. I still can't fathom the idea that being shouted at is preparation for being shot at

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It hasn't - are you sure?

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Reply 42

Tommmo

4

Original post by LewisG123

The military operation in Iraq hasn't been at all successful. We helped the most heavily funded military in the world beat a far inferior and outnumbered army. I still can't fathom the idea that being shouted at is preparation for being shot at

Wow, how wonderfully naïve.
I'd love to see you talk to people who've been on the frontline and tell them that the Taliban were 'inferior and outnumbered'.

Reply 43

Original post by Tommmo

Wow, how wonderfully naïve.
I'd love to see you talk to people who've been on the frontline and tell them that the Taliban were 'inferior and outnumbered'.

I wouldn't worry about it, Tommmo he's obviously living in a dream reality.

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Reply 44

OP

Original post by Tommmo

Wow, how wonderfully naïve.
I'd love to see you talk to people who've been on the frontline and tell them that the Taliban were 'inferior and outnumbered'.

If you'd like to introduce me to someone who has I will happily say to their face "the Taliban were an inferior force" - if we'd lost it would have been even more embarrassing than Vietnam was

There's absolutely no naivety in saying that. How can you compare a terrorist group of a couple of tens of thousands to the armies of two of the most developed countries in the world which between them have about 2 million active soldiers and spend over half a trillion dollars every year

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Reply 45

OP

Original post by Lee R

LewisG123 you're making yourself look stupid. Please, go back from under the rock you came and go to sleep.

It looks to me as you're either, a) someone who tried to join and couldn't or, b) joined and then were kicked out because you couldn't hack abit of shouting.

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Why would I join the army and risk my life for a war that's pretty much pointless? I can assure you I've definitely never even considered the army

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Reply 46

It's not the size of an army that matters, it's how well they have adapted to the surroundings that they live in, Vietnam for example. They were masters of the jungle and this is the way they won.

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Reply 47

Original post by LewisG123

Why would I join the army and risk my life for a war that's pretty much pointless? I can assure you I've definitely never even considered the army

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Then you need not bother making threads that simply do not involve you.

A pointless war? Really?

So you're saying that helping to free the people of Iraq and Afghanistan from tyrants and terror cells is pointless?

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(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 48

OP

Original post by Lee R

Then you need not bother making threads that simply do not involve you.

A pointless war? Really?

So you're saying that helping to free the people of Iraq and Afghanistan from tyrants and terror cells is pointless?

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I wanted to see if anyone could make a valid point to change my view but it seems I've got one of three things: 1) called naive or stupid with no explanation on why 2) told "it's the best way" 3) that it's not how I imagined (which is the most constructive)

It's none of our business. Why do we think we have a mandate to go and make the world the way we think it should be.

Also, lets be completely honest, neither of those countries are really in much better shape than we found them. There's a trend developing with NATO trying to aid Muslim countries

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(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 49

You're aren't answering any questions brought to you. I've been there and done it, I've seen what's happened to those places.

It is a lot better than it was, and unless you have been you don't have a say as to if it is or not.

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Reply 50

gateshipone

10

Original post by LewisG123

So you're actually trying to say that having someone shout at you is going to prepare you for having someone shoot at you and to actually kill another person?

Look up the names of the guys who have won VC's and other medals for bravery and then look at what they did to gain them. Every single one of them went through the same style training and were able to deal with events that would make most of us loose bowel control. To me that suggests the methods of training that our armed forces use work pretty damn well.

Reply 51

OP

Original post by Lee R

You're aren't answering any questions brought to you. I've been there and done it, I've seen what's happened to those places.

It is a lot better than it was, and unless you have been you don't have a say as to if it is or not.

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Ok well pose a question to me and I'll try and answer it.

Original post by gateshipone

Look up the names of the guys who have won VC's and other medals for bravery and then look at what they did to gain them. Every single one of them went through the same style training and were able to deal with events that would make most of us loose bowel control. To me that suggests the methods of training that our armed forces use work pretty damn well.

Or those people are naturally very brave?

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Reply 52

Ok.

Do you think that freeing the people of Iraq and Afghanistan from tyrants that pillaged and killed at will is and was pointless?

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Reply 53

gateshipone

10

Original post by LewisG123

Or those people are naturally very brave?

Maybe that's part of it, but I'd argue that the training brings that out of them and helps them focus that bravery. I consider myself to be pretty brave and to be honest most people are in some ways. I've jumped out of planes and off buildings. However, I cannot even fathom jumping on top of a grenade to protect people around me. Being willing to do anything for your team is what the training does. It teaches you to focus your thoughts in stressful situations. I doubt you could take a civvie who is considered brave and expect them to not crap their pants if you dropped them in the middle of a firefight with no training.

Reply 54

Original post by LewisG123

Ok well pose a question to me and I'll try and answer it.

Or those people are naturally very brave?

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It's the training that they received. Why is that hard to believe?

Lets look it in a different way. The Special Forces; they have what is renowned as the hardest selection training course in the Forces, now, do you think that the guys in the Special Forces could go and do their job at the level they do without having the special training that they receive?

Or are they all just 'naturally brave'?

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Reply 55

Tommmo

4

Original post by LewisG123

If you'd like to introduce me to someone who has I will happily say to their face "the Taliban were an inferior force" - if we'd lost it would have been even more embarrassing than Vietnam was

There's absolutely no naivety in saying that. How can you compare a terrorist group of a couple of tens of thousands to the armies of two of the most developed countries in the world which between them have about 2 million active soldiers and spend over half a trillion dollars every year

Once again, you seem to be basing your knowledge of the Taliban on video games and what you've seen on the news. They are not just your average Joe who's picked up an AK-47 and simply runs at a tank screaming and firing from the hip - if only.
They know the terrain, they know how to blend into the populace (it's easy; they are the local populace), they know our Rules of Engagement and know how to counter them. They are smart, quick and use constantly evolving tactics to counter NATO forces.

There are scores of books written on this subject, so if you value your front teeth please don't tell a squaddie your opinions on the Taliban.

Reply 56

Original post by Tommmo

Once again, you seem to be basing your knowledge of the Taliban on video games and what you've seen on the news. They are not just your average Joe who's picked up an AK-47 and simply runs at a tank screaming and firing from the hip - if only.
They know the terrain, they know how to blend into the populace (it's easy; they are the local populace), they know our Rules of Engagement and know how to counter them. They are smart, quick and use constantly evolving tactics to counter NATO forces.

There are scores of books written on this subject, so if you value your front teeth please don't tell a squaddie your opinions on the Taliban.

I agree with this completely. What you see on the news is, well ...not very informative.

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Reply 57

OP

Original post by gateshipone

I doubt you could take a civvie who is considered brave and expect them to not crap their pants if you dropped them in the middle of a firefight with no training.

Well yes because they don't have military skills. I've at no point disputed the training is good, I've said I don't think it's essential that it's done in the way I believe it is.

Original post by Lee R

It's the training that they received. Why is that hard to believe?

Lets look it in a different way. The Special Forces; they have what is renowned as the hardest selection training course in the Forces, now, do you think that the guys in the Special Forces could go and do their job at the level they do without having the special training that they receive?

Or are they all just 'naturally brave'?

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How did this turn into people making out I said "good soldiers are good because they're brave"? I disputed that being shouted out makes you a braver person.

And in answer to your question I would say that most, if not all, members of the special forces are exceptionally brave people, I in fact no someone who served with them. But their skill comes from practically training which I've never said isn't good

Original post by Tommmo

Once again, you seem to be basing your knowledge of the Taliban on video games and what you've seen on the news. They are not just your average Joe who's picked up an AK-47 and simply runs at a tank screaming and firing from the hip - if only.
They know the terrain, they know how to blend into the populace (it's easy; they are the local populace), they know our Rules of Engagement and know how to counter them. They are smart, quick and use constantly evolving tactics to counter NATO forces.

There are scores of books written on this subject, so if you value your front teeth please don't tell a squaddie your opinions on the Taliban.

I never imagined they were like that and I'm not really sure where you drew that conclusion from.

All you've done there is list their strengths and ignore their weaknesses and the strengths of western forces.

This has gone miles from what I originally said. To simply put that again, how does shouting in someone's face wearing a stupid hat mean that they can now deal with people shooting at them

I'd like to hope that all that shouting would have taught soldiers a bit more restraint than to be so violent to a 'civvy'

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(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 58

gateshipone

10

Original post by LewisG123

This has gone miles from what I originally said. To simply put that again, how does shouting in someone's face wearing a stupid hat mean that they can now deal with people shooting at them

You seem to think they are just shouting at them and that's it. If the 'hat wearers' are shouting they're probably doing so to raise everyone's stress level WHILE CARRYING OUT A TASK OR ORDER. The point of it, as others have said over and over again, is to get soldiers prepared to do things in high stress situations and keep a cool head. That's the point of it and it clearly works.

Reply 59

moonkatt