Law for international students
Hello 
I'm a brazilian student thinking about studying in the UK. As it stands, I'll take the international foundation programme next year (hopefully I'll be able to start in January) and then I intend to study Law for the three years of undergrad studies. However, I was faced with doubts about my choice, as I intend to work and live in the UK after my graduation and to do so I'd have to be under the Tier 2 visa, earning about 21k a year from a sponsored employer.
I'd like to ask what are my opportunies as a newly graduated from Law School in the UK, and the likelihood of finding a job that would give me the Tier 2 Visa. I know there are mainly two paths for me to choose (solicitor or barrister), and, while I'd be more interested in the former, I'm now actually more worried about being able to remain in the UK after my studies than anything. Having to go back to Brazil would be a disaster, as the degree itself would worthless for the brazilian market, but it'd have a considerable effect on my finances.
Are training contracts for solicitors THAT hard to get? Do the firms make it harder for overseas students? Would trying to be a barrister "easier" when it comes to find a stable job? Like I said, I'm more concerned about some kind of security than anything...just considering the ideia of being "kicked out" of the country afterwards makes me nearly give up on the ideia of going at all.
Thank you all in advance!
I'm a brazilian student thinking about studying in the UK. As it stands, I'll take the international foundation programme next year (hopefully I'll be able to start in January) and then I intend to study Law for the three years of undergrad studies. However, I was faced with doubts about my choice, as I intend to work and live in the UK after my graduation and to do so I'd have to be under the Tier 2 visa, earning about 21k a year from a sponsored employer.
I'd like to ask what are my opportunies as a newly graduated from Law School in the UK, and the likelihood of finding a job that would give me the Tier 2 Visa. I know there are mainly two paths for me to choose (solicitor or barrister), and, while I'd be more interested in the former, I'm now actually more worried about being able to remain in the UK after my studies than anything. Having to go back to Brazil would be a disaster, as the degree itself would worthless for the brazilian market, but it'd have a considerable effect on my finances.
Are training contracts for solicitors THAT hard to get? Do the firms make it harder for overseas students? Would trying to be a barrister "easier" when it comes to find a stable job? Like I said, I'm more concerned about some kind of security than anything...just considering the ideia of being "kicked out" of the country afterwards makes me nearly give up on the ideia of going at all.
Thank you all in advance!
Hi,
Yes training contracts are usually challenging to get and the range of potential firms to apply to is a lot smaller for international students as many firms do not sponsor work visas. However, of the MC firms, SC firms and other large international firms, many are willing to sponsor international students under Tier 2. These firms all have trainee salaries above the required minimum, so that isn't an issue. I am an international student myself and have a TC at one of these firms. I also know many other international students who do, so it isn't impossible.
Again, though, I want to emphasise that getting the TC in the first instance can be very challenging, even for students who are not international and have straight As at A-Level and high 2.1 degrees from top unis. Additionally,the immigration rules change a lot and there's a good chance it may be a lot more difficult to stay in the UK by the time you graduate.
Yes training contracts are usually challenging to get and the range of potential firms to apply to is a lot smaller for international students as many firms do not sponsor work visas. However, of the MC firms, SC firms and other large international firms, many are willing to sponsor international students under Tier 2. These firms all have trainee salaries above the required minimum, so that isn't an issue. I am an international student myself and have a TC at one of these firms. I also know many other international students who do, so it isn't impossible.
Again, though, I want to emphasise that getting the TC in the first instance can be very challenging, even for students who are not international and have straight As at A-Level and high 2.1 degrees from top unis. Additionally,the immigration rules change a lot and there's a good chance it may be a lot more difficult to stay in the UK by the time you graduate.
Thanks for your answer.
I see. Since I'm also interested in Business (and apparently getting into the foundation at City University is not that hard, providing me access to Cass afterwards), would that be a safer route to take at first? Just until I become able to settle in the UK or something. Then I'd take the GDL and with a business degree I might have even wider options.
Are there other options for a oversas law graduate to stay in the UK after finishing the course? It all seems just too risky...and a degree in Business might actually be more useful in Brazil if I had to go back.
Journalism also caught my attention, but it all keeps coming back to having a Tier 2 visa in the end, so...
Could you tell me what path did you take to get into your current position? Uni, country of origin, grades...If it isn't asking for too much :P
I see. Since I'm also interested in Business (and apparently getting into the foundation at City University is not that hard, providing me access to Cass afterwards), would that be a safer route to take at first? Just until I become able to settle in the UK or something. Then I'd take the GDL and with a business degree I might have even wider options.
Are there other options for a oversas law graduate to stay in the UK after finishing the course? It all seems just too risky...and a degree in Business might actually be more useful in Brazil if I had to go back.
Journalism also caught my attention, but it all keeps coming back to having a Tier 2 visa in the end, so...
Could you tell me what path did you take to get into your current position? Uni, country of origin, grades...If it isn't asking for too much :P
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Heteronym
Are training contracts for solicitors THAT hard to get?
Yes.
Original post by Heteronym
Do the firms make it harder for overseas students?
That's questionable. Not a lot of law firms offer sponsorship for international students, so if you want to be considered, it has to be with the bigger firms. With the bigger firms, some people say that it does make a difference. You need to show the firm that you're worth the extra money and expenditure of hiring an international. But then again, this is just hearsay and opinions, there is no definitive fact that internationals have it harder. It certainly hasn't been my experience as an international applicant.
Original post by Heteronym
Would trying to be a barrister "easier" when it comes to find a stable job?
Becoming a barrister is 10x harder than becoming a solicitor. Well, a barrister that earns well anyway. Think of it this way, the top MC law firms have 60-80 vacancies for trainees a year (on average), the top Chambers for barristers have a maximum of 5 (and the norm is 2 or 3 at most).
Original post by Heteronym
Since I'm also interested in Business (and apparently getting into the foundation at City University is not that hard, providing me access to Cass afterwards), would that be a safer route to take at first? Just until I become able to settle in the UK or something. Then I'd take the GDL and with a business degree I might have even wider options.
That's debatable. There are a lot of people who think Business degrees are pointless. But then again, there are a lot of people who probably think the opposite as well. When it comes to non-law degrees, I think what matters most is that you have the inherent analytical and written skills necessary for the job and whether you can demonstrate that well.
Original post by Heteronym
Could you tell me what path did you take to get into your current position? Uni, country of origin, grades...
I did my LLB at the London School of Economics. I graduate this July. I have a first-class predicted degree. Some vacation schemes and mini-pupillages and other work experiences on my CV. Some mooting and other extracurricular activities as well. I'm of Indian/Pakistani origin.
Original post by Heteronym
Oh, and other thing: if I can fund myself through LPC, it would give an extra year to find a suitable job, right?
Yes, it would. A lot of trainees don't have TCs heading into the LPC and self-fund themselves through it. It's not uncommon at all.
Thanks for the answer, arrowhead.
Well, I'm certainly not going to get into LSE! Hopefully Warwick or Lancaster for law...Providing I get good grades on good universities like those and do everything I can to enhance my CV, I guess it's possible to get a training contract, right? But those international firms are based in London only, or they are spread throughout the country in big cities such as Liverpool, Manchester and Birmingham?
About the non-law degree: I'm very doubtufl as to what I could make myself "attractive" for a law firm on my first or second year on a non-law degree. What exactly do they analyse?
Like I said, one of my biggest worries is to be able to settle in the UK, and the path in Law seems rather risky for me. I mentioned the Business degree as a way to get a reasonable job, gain experience and then hopefully get a GDL, but who knows...
Well, I'm certainly not going to get into LSE! Hopefully Warwick or Lancaster for law...Providing I get good grades on good universities like those and do everything I can to enhance my CV, I guess it's possible to get a training contract, right? But those international firms are based in London only, or they are spread throughout the country in big cities such as Liverpool, Manchester and Birmingham?
About the non-law degree: I'm very doubtufl as to what I could make myself "attractive" for a law firm on my first or second year on a non-law degree. What exactly do they analyse?
Like I said, one of my biggest worries is to be able to settle in the UK, and the path in Law seems rather risky for me. I mentioned the Business degree as a way to get a reasonable job, gain experience and then hopefully get a GDL, but who knows...
Original post by Heteronym
Thanks for the answer, arrowhead.
You're welcome.
Original post by Heteronym
Well, I'm certainly not going to get into LSE! Hopefully Warwick or Lancaster for law...Providing I get good grades on good universities like those and do everything I can to enhance my CV, I guess it's possible to get a training contract, right?
I don't see why not.
Original post by Heteronym
But those international firms are based in London only, or they are spread throughout the country in big cities such as Liverpool, Manchester and Birmingham?
From what I know, yes, they're based in London. But many of them have regional offices across the UK as well. You might want to research more into that.
Original post by Heteronym
About the non-law degree: I'm very doubtufl as to what I could make myself "attractive" for a law firm on my first or second year on a non-law degree. What exactly do they analyse?
I wouldn't know, I haven't done a non-law degree myself.
Original post by Heteronym
Like I said, one of my biggest worries is to be able to settle in the UK, and the path in Law seems rather risky for me. I mentioned the Business degree as a way to get a reasonable job, gain experience and then hopefully get a GDL, but who knows...
There's no guarantee that you will get a job within a non-law field with a Business degree, there's no guarantee that the GDL-route will work either nor that the traditional LLB-route will work. If you're hoping to gain assurances and guarantees, you know you're not going to get them. Everything's risky, it's up to you to decide if you think it's worth taking a chance over.
Best of luck!
Arrowhead.
Original post by Heteronym
Thanks for your answer.
I see. Since I'm also interested in Business (and apparently getting into the foundation at City University is not that hard, providing me access to Cass afterwards), would that be a safer route to take at first? Just until I become able to settle in the UK or something. Then I'd take the GDL and with a business degree I might have even wider options.
I see. Since I'm also interested in Business (and apparently getting into the foundation at City University is not that hard, providing me access to Cass afterwards), would that be a safer route to take at first? Just until I become able to settle in the UK or something. Then I'd take the GDL and with a business degree I might have even wider options.
There will be different views on this but, to me, it sounds like a very roundabout and costly route to reaching your goal. (This is assuming you will be taking the foundation year at City, a degree at Cass, the GDL, and the LPC.) You've mentioned above that you're hoping to get into either Warwick or Lancaster. A law degree from Warwick will definitely put you in better stead for a training contract at the sort of firms that are willing to take on international students than will the business route. Lancaster might be an option but it will likely be very challenging and your grades there will likely have to be exceptional.
Are there other options for a oversas law graduate to stay in the UK after finishing the course? It all seems just too risky...and a degree in Business might actually be more useful in Brazil if I had to go back.
Journalism also caught my attention, but it all keeps coming back to having a Tier 2 visa in the end, so...
Journalism also caught my attention, but it all keeps coming back to having a Tier 2 visa in the end, so...
If you went down the barrister route, which is extremely challenging going by hearsay, I believe it may be possible to apply under the Tier 5 visa but I'm not 100% sure on this.
Could you tell me what path did you take to get into your current position? Uni, country of origin, grades...If it isn't asking for too much :P
Will PM you.
Original post by Heteronym
Oh, and other thing: if I can fund myself through LPC, it would give an extra year to find a suitable job, right?
I know I'm going overboard as I'd only be graduating in 2018, but...
I know I'm going overboard as I'd only be graduating in 2018, but...
Well, especially if you're an international student, you don't want to be in this situation. Whilst it gives you an extra year to find a suitable job, the sort of firms you will be hoping to sponsor your visa usually recruit two years in advance. This means that if you get a training contract offer during your LPC, you may have to wait two years to begin the training contract. What this means is that you'll have a two year limbo where you won't be able to stay in the UK (unless under a tourist visa) and this will break your qualification period for settling in the UK. It also means you will be applying for your Tier 2 visa from abroad (i.e. not the UK) which is a bit more complicated due to number limitations.
Ideally, you want to have a training contract secured before you begin your GDL (if non-law) or by the start of your final year (if law).
Original post by Heteronym
But those international firms are based in London only, or they are spread throughout the country in big cities such as Liverpool, Manchester and Birmingham?
Mostly London.
About the non-law degree: I'm very doubtufl as to what I could make myself "attractive" for a law firm on my first or second year on a non-law degree. What exactly do they analyse?
The sort of things you could have on your CV at this stage, aside from exceptional grades, are extra-curricular activities (sports, leadership/active positions in societies, excelling at some hobby or the other, volunteering, etc). Language skills tend to strengthen your CV as well. Crucially, work experience would be useful in setting your CV apart- it need not be work experience at a law firm but experience in a corporate setting (completing a spring week at an investment bank, for instance) could be beneficial. Of course, you will then need to be able to answer questions like 'Why Law and not Investment Banking?' Other experience could be highlighted for their transferable skills- e.g. dealing with customers daily in a shop could help you develop the interpersonal skills you will need as a lawyer to build client relationships.
Hi, I'm a student from Malaysia and I'm experiencing a similar situation regarding work options in the UK upon graduation.
I'm deciding between Bristol and Warwick for my Law LLB degree. It would be great if any one one of you could help me out by choosing between the two mainly in terms of chances of securing a job upon graduation in a law firm in UK which would then enable me to settle in the UK.
Thanks.
I'm deciding between Bristol and Warwick for my Law LLB degree. It would be great if any one one of you could help me out by choosing between the two mainly in terms of chances of securing a job upon graduation in a law firm in UK which would then enable me to settle in the UK.
Thanks.
Original post by RDKN
Hi, I'm a student from Malaysia and I'm experiencing a similar situation regarding work options in the UK upon graduation.
I'm deciding between Bristol and Warwick for my Law LLB degree. It would be great if any one one of you could help me out by choosing between the two mainly in terms of chances of securing a job upon graduation in a law firm in UK which would then enable me to settle in the UK.
Thanks.
I'm deciding between Bristol and Warwick for my Law LLB degree. It would be great if any one one of you could help me out by choosing between the two mainly in terms of chances of securing a job upon graduation in a law firm in UK which would then enable me to settle in the UK.
Thanks.
Like I said earlier, as long as you go to a reasonably good university (i.e. top 20), then you're over the university hurdle. What matters most after that is your grades. You need a strong 2:1/1st - alongside some extra curriculars - and you're set.
Between Warwick and Bristol? Warwick all the way, obviously.
Original post by Heteronym
Hello
I'm a brazilian student thinking about studying in the UK. As it stands, I'll take the international foundation programme next year (hopefully I'll be able to start in January) and then I intend to study Law for the three years of undergrad studies. However, I was faced with doubts about my choice, as I intend to work and live in the UK after my graduation and to do so I'd have to be under the Tier 2 visa, earning about 21k a year from a sponsored employer.
I'd like to ask what are my opportunies as a newly graduated from Law School in the UK, and the likelihood of finding a job that would give me the Tier 2 Visa. I know there are mainly two paths for me to choose (solicitor or barrister), and, while I'd be more interested in the former, I'm now actually more worried about being able to remain in the UK after my studies than anything. Having to go back to Brazil would be a disaster, as the degree itself would worthless for the brazilian market, but it'd have a considerable effect on my finances.
Are training contracts for solicitors THAT hard to get? Do the firms make it harder for overseas students? Would trying to be a barrister "easier" when it comes to find a stable job? Like I said, I'm more concerned about some kind of security than anything...just considering the ideia of being "kicked out" of the country afterwards makes me nearly give up on the ideia of going at all.
Thank you all in advance!
I'm a brazilian student thinking about studying in the UK. As it stands, I'll take the international foundation programme next year (hopefully I'll be able to start in January) and then I intend to study Law for the three years of undergrad studies. However, I was faced with doubts about my choice, as I intend to work and live in the UK after my graduation and to do so I'd have to be under the Tier 2 visa, earning about 21k a year from a sponsored employer.
I'd like to ask what are my opportunies as a newly graduated from Law School in the UK, and the likelihood of finding a job that would give me the Tier 2 Visa. I know there are mainly two paths for me to choose (solicitor or barrister), and, while I'd be more interested in the former, I'm now actually more worried about being able to remain in the UK after my studies than anything. Having to go back to Brazil would be a disaster, as the degree itself would worthless for the brazilian market, but it'd have a considerable effect on my finances.
Are training contracts for solicitors THAT hard to get? Do the firms make it harder for overseas students? Would trying to be a barrister "easier" when it comes to find a stable job? Like I said, I'm more concerned about some kind of security than anything...just considering the ideia of being "kicked out" of the country afterwards makes me nearly give up on the ideia of going at all.
Thank you all in advance!
Do you have any way in which you could acquire Portuguese nationality? Obviously if you can, that would solve your immigration problem as you would be able to work in the UK freely.
arrowhead and maghreblover, thank you two for your very thoughtful responses. I'd say that I hoped it would help other people, but as it turns out it already did! I'll surely keep your advices in mind.
nulli tertius, as a matter of fact I'll probably start the process of acquiring the portuguese nationality within the next month. Since it's very burocratic and envolves dealing with some old documents, I can't be certain of my chances, but in the end this will be a very decisive factor on my decision to go the UK. Hope everything works out
nulli tertius, as a matter of fact I'll probably start the process of acquiring the portuguese nationality within the next month. Since it's very burocratic and envolves dealing with some old documents, I can't be certain of my chances, but in the end this will be a very decisive factor on my decision to go the UK. Hope everything works out
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