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Help, should I include that in my application

Hi guys,

I am international student and currently studying in the uk. I plan to apply for phd programmes next year but a problem bothers me a lot

Before coming to the uk, I withdrew from a University in my own country after 3 years( 4 year programme). The main reason is I was not satisfied with my subject( a social science one) and the overall teaching quality there

Now I am doing a science subject in the uk.(1st expected)

The question is should I include the former university in the application and cv ( when contacting faculty members)?

If not, is it like lying ? what are possible outcomes if someone find it out later?

Personally,I don"t very much want to include that . Not only because I think it is not relevant (a totally different subject) but also I am afraid it may make others think I am not dedicated to what I am doing.

Any advice is appreciated. Give me a reply please.
Reply 1
How are you going to explain 3 years gap on your cv? I think your expected grades from your current degree shows your dedication well enough. It takes a lot of courage and maturity to quit a degree you are not satisfied with and instead pursue another. It's absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. What do 18 year olds know about choosing their life long career path anyway?

I would say, put it down on your cv but don't mention it otherwise.
Did you still gain a qualification from the first uni despite leaving? I know some universities in the UK will give you a Certificate if you complete one year (or 120 credits) and a Diploma if you complete two years (or 240 credits). If you did I think it would still be worth putting that on your application as a qualification is a qualification.
Reply 3
If you feel uncomfortable, don't bother telling them. There's no way for them to know. And they probably only ask you to list any degrees you've completed on an application form. You can account for the gap with fake jobs and travel, if asked.

On the other hand, I don't think they'd care one way or the other if you did tell them, as it's in a totally unrelated area.
I dropped out of the first uni I went to, and even though I technically got a certificate for it I don't include it in applications. I also don't include any work I did during that time and before and give no details on courses prior to going into biology. If I did it'll look confusing (I was originally studying archaeology) and a mess. I do this even on applications that ask to explain all gaps. I do explain if asked in interviews but if it's a false start which provides no advantage for your chosen career, it's not relevant info. People do lots of stuff in their lives, it doesn't mean it all should be included, and you don't want to simply be repeating your application in the interview. Revealing more than what they expected might seal the deal.
Reply 5
Original post by pengpeng
...

If not, is it like lying ? what are possible outcomes if someone find it out later?

Personally,I don"t very much want to include that . Not only because I think it is not relevant (a totally different subject) but also I am afraid it may make others think I am not dedicated to what I am doing.

Any advice is appreciated. Give me a reply please.


Well, others here seem to think it's ok to lie, that's not what I would recommend from either a personal integrity perspective or just from the slim chance that you do get found out (if the uni does indeed ask you to list all previous tertiary education studied - if they don't then there shouldn't be an issue with you leaving it out if it makes you feel more comfortable, but be prepared to explain the gap if they ask).

Regarding your point about the subject not being relevant and you don't want them to think you're not dedicated - I think there is a very easy way around that, which is simply to state in your personal statement that you tried it for long enough to realise it was the wrong subject for you, and the fact that you are on track for a first in your current degree shows that (a) this is the right subject and (b) you are clearly dedicated because you are doing so well. This also avoids potentially having to think up lies in the middle of any prospective interview; no matter how good you are, any uni worth its salt will reject you at the first whiff of dishonesty about anything to do with academia.
Reply 6
If you intend on applying for funding then yes, you must include it.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Reply 7
Original post by Studentdk
How are you going to explain 3 years gap on your cv? I think your expected grades from your current degree shows your dedication well enough. It takes a lot of courage and maturity to quit a degree you are not satisfied with and instead pursue another. It's absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. What do 18 year olds know about choosing their life long career path anyway?

I would say, put it down on your cv but don't mention it otherwise.


Thank you !There will be no gap since high school is always not included in a CV for applying for phd.. can I just start from my current institution?
Reply 8
Original post by sj27
Well, others here seem to think it's ok to lie, that's not what I would recommend from either a personal integrity perspective or just from the slim chance that you do get found out (if the uni does indeed ask you to list all previous tertiary education studied - if they don't then there shouldn't be an issue with you leaving it out if it makes you feel more comfortable, but be prepared to explain the gap if they ask).

Regarding your point about the subject not being relevant and you don't want them to think you're not dedicated - I think there is a very easy way around that, which is simply to state in your personal statement that you tried it for long enough to realise it was the wrong subject for you, and the fact that you are on track for a first in your current degree shows that (a) this is the right subject and (b) you are clearly dedicated because you are doing so well. This also avoids potentially having to think up lies in the middle of any prospective interview; no matter how good you are, any uni worth its salt will reject you at the first whiff of dishonesty about anything to do with academia.


Thank you very much. In the application forms of many universities, there is a education/qualification section, in which I should include the date of award and grade,which is not application for my former uni,
so does that imply that they are only interested in completed degree?
Reply 9
Original post by mistercrabs
If you feel uncomfortable, don't bother telling them. There's no way for them to know. And they probably only ask you to list any degrees you've completed on an application form. You can account for the gap with fake jobs and travel, if asked.

On the other hand, I don't think they'd care one way or the other if you did tell them, as it's in a totally unrelated area.


Thank you..It is not clear in the application forms whether I should include the unfinished degree, but for each institution listed, the date of award and grade is required....
Reply 10
Original post by Eubacterium
I dropped out of the first uni I went to, and even though I technically got a certificate for it I don't include it in applications. I also don't include any work I did during that time and before and give no details on courses prior to going into biology. If I did it'll look confusing (I was originally studying archaeology) and a mess. I do this even on applications that ask to explain all gaps. I do explain if asked in interviews but if it's a false start which provides no advantage for your chosen career, it's not relevant info. People do lots of stuff in their lives, it doesn't mean it all should be included, and you don't want to simply be repeating your application in the interview. Revealing more than what they expected might seal the deal.


Thank you for you reply. Did you apply to another uni after dropping out? are you still in uni now? You didn't include it in the application but you did explain it in the interview. Does that seem strange? Did the interviews ask why you didn't include that in your application...
Reply 11
Original post by psychedelicious
I think so. On the forms for Cambridge, UCL and Newcastle there was only a qualifications section.

However on the Oxford form there was a section where you had to include all previous higher education included courses uncompleted.

So it depends on the university.


You are very helpful.Are you also applying to some institutions? I noticed that on the form for Oxford too , does qualification has the same meaning as degree certificate?
Reply 12
Original post by psychedelicious
The institutions that I mentioned are those that I've seen the applications for. I applied to Newcastle (where I did my BA) last year and was accepted. I ended up declining their offer.

I applied to Oxford and Cambridge this year, rejected from the the former accepted by the latter. I'd almost finished my UCL application when I got the offer from Cambridge so I didn't bother applying there in the end.

As I said, only Oxford wanted to know everything so I told them...


Congratulations. I think I'd better contact the uni in the case I am not sure , if I was told not to include, then I don't need to worry about that..
Original post by pengpeng
Congratulations. I think I'd better contact the uni in the case I am not sure , if I was told not to include, then I don't need to worry about that..


There is no reason not to contact the university.

Ask a non-academic staff member working in post-grad admissions, either in the department or for the whole uni. These people won't be the ones judging your application, so you don't need to worry.

Similar to someone above, my application form (for a master's at Imperial), told me to write down all higher education courses, completed or not (although I think that it was only courses done in the UK, I can't remember).

I don't think that you have to worry about including it hurting your CV. Whoever judges your application would know that people can change their minds and want to study something else and change their career. The fact that you are about to complete a degree in this field demonstrates that you made the right decision.

I had something worse on my CV: I had to repeat 1st year twice because of depression (and immaturity as well to be honest), and I still got an offer. :smile:

They would prefer it if you are honest. And starting your university education from the beginning because you realised you made a mistake shows that you can make difficult, but positive life-choices.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by pengpeng
Thank you for you reply. Did you apply to another uni after dropping out? are you still in uni now? You didn't include it in the application but you did explain it in the interview. Does that seem strange? Did the interviews ask why you didn't include that in your application...
I have since completed a BSc and MSc in microbiology and have been working in my field for years, in a number of different institutions. (There's a link in my profile if you want more details.) They never questioned why it wasn't in the application and in interviews for my last two jobs hadn't asked what I did before the work history I listed. A lot happened in my life and employers don't want a life story filled with irrelevant info. Also an uncompleted degree is not a qualification so it's not something I think belongs in the education section unless it's relevant to the job.

Edit: the application is not a interrogation of you. It is your choice what you put on it and particularly if you left the degree young I think it's unlikely an employer will be be bothered that you hadn't gone as far back to when you were 18-19 years old for eg, when you'll might graduate near your mid twenties. But that's my experience.
(edited 10 years ago)

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