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Bashar al-assad and the Syrian conflict
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Original post by Ama2007
So, please enlighten us, what do you know about syria or the syrians themselves or even who is assad and what he stands for? I am intrigued to know your view.
But this is the point. Unlike you I am not claiming to have a definitive knowledge about a situation that I am very much removed from and which I can only draw knowledge from the often contradictory reports in our own media.
Do you really think that any conflict is as simple as one bad man versus all the good guys? In Libya we were spun much the same story about a united and democratized opposition fighting a nasty genocidal dictator. What happened? Well as the opposition gained more and more ground they also embarked on a campaign of ethnic cleansing towards those with darker skin and soon proved themselves to be as murderous as the thing they had taken up arms against. Lets look at Libya now. Democratic heaven? No rather it is a fragmented society where the central government have very little if any control on the skirmishing militia's that actually control things and whereby the government has to fritter away it's oil wealth bribing surrounding African countries into handing over ex-Gadaffi era men just to make it look as though it is doing something.
Now lets look at Syria beyond this little "good v bad" scenario you insist upon. We have the FSA which most independent reports from inside Syria itself will tell you is about as much of an organized entity as if I donned black and went to the park saying that I was part of the anarchist international movement. It's quite frankly a load of cack. Out of all the different armed movements and groups only one is actually said to be at all powerful and organized and that is the Al-Nusra front. Considering that Syria has in recent memory been a secular country, do you really think the right move is from one autocratic government to another religious totalitarian one? Now quickly skipping over stories of summary execution of anyone associated with the state, whether they be a soldier or postman, and also of shelling such as that of school's and the recent one at the University of Damascus which surely is the same sort of undiscriminating killing that the ruling regime is accused of, lets move on.
Lets look at the SNC. Its bandied about as the democratic alternative to Bashar Al-Assad yet it's recent leader was chosen on the basis of the vote of 35 Syrians, many of whom have spent the majority of their life outside Syria. These aren't Syrian's yearning to 'liberate' Syria from a dictatorship, these are people who merely wish to accede to power in Syria with the backing of their free market allies in the west for their own good. All one is doing by supporting the SNC in their current form is trading an independent dictatorship for a puppet one whose strings are controlled abroad.
Also explain to me if this is a popular rebellion why have only one major city and a few towns been 'liberated' by the opposition? Surely if this was a popular rebellion than either we would have seen many more people rise up and liberate their towns and cities or we would have seen a much greater bloodbath as Assad's security forces clamp down. When the town of Hama was hammered by Assad's father in 1982 (an act that received comparable little attention from our leaders yet was entirely more brutal) in reply to the popular uprising there, 40,000 people died in the space of a month. Yet not even double that have died in 2 years even according to the most pessimistic of estimations.
I am not claiming unrivalled encyclopaedic knowledge of the conflict and it's context, though having paid very close attention to it since it began 2 years ago I have picked up a little info. Anyone with any sort of realistic perspective on international affairs will tell you that nothing follows the struggle of good v bad storyline you are shoving in people's faces and that is why I keep picking at your posts.
Original post by castlemadeofsand
Do you really think that any conflict is as simple as one bad man versus all the good guys? In Libya we were spun much the same story about a united and democratized opposition fighting a nasty genocidal dictator. What happened? Well as the opposition gained more and more ground they also embarked on a campaign of ethnic cleansing towards those with darker skin and soon proved themselves to be as murderous as the thing they had taken up arms against. Lets look at Libya now. Democratic heaven? No rather it is a fragmented society where the central government have very little if any control on the skirmishing militia's that actually control things and whereby the government has to fritter away it's oil wealth bribing surrounding African countries into handing over ex-Gadaffi era men just to make it look as though it is doing something.
i.
i.
Thank you at least someone has a realistic approach to the conflict. Add to the fact that Syria is starting to see sectarian tensions and its position in the middle east ( factors that do not apply to Libya) and this conflict can easily continue after Assad is finished
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Original post by yg95
Thank you at least someone has a realistic approach to the conflict. Add to the fact that Syria is starting to see sectarian tensions and its position in the middle east ( factors that do not apply to Libya) and this conflict can easily continue after Assad is finished
However I doubt whatever crappy state Syria is in will really receive much press in our media. Beyond the occasional sentence or two about skirmishes the state of Libya didn't really feature in any headlines before those British nationals were raped the other day. The siege of Bani Walid never featured in any British papers or news agencies and all dismissed without much substance the idea that the wealth of weapons and ethnically cleansed Tuareg peoples helped destabilize neighbouring Mali. And so thus, unless our troops are sent there or if Assad's government manages to outright defeat all of the armed opposition, the likely crap state Syria will be in will be ignored just as Libya has, up until now, been.
Original post by yg95
Thank you at least someone has a realistic approach to the conflict. Add to the fact that Syria is starting to see sectarian tensions and its position in the middle east ( factors that do not apply to Libya) and this conflict can easily continue after Assad is finished
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
To be honest am not suprised at your lack of understanding of the syrian regime, it takes more than reading the BBC and a few articals to grasp the complex situation of this revolution. On one side you have the Iranians, chinese and russians supplying weapons to the regime to kill its own people and then you get people saying its not good vs bad, lol I know obviously! AND then you get those who want to ruin anythinh which doesnt go by their books. The revolution started for a reason and didnt just out of nowhere form? 23million people? they must have had at least some idea of what they were going into and what they wanted? no?
I really advice you as a fellow TSR to read about the history of syria... which is very interesting and explains many things happening right now, it makes sense once you understand the logic behind Bashar Al-assad assination of his own people.The history of how the army is formed and the oppression for 40 years.
However, Your support or lack of it wont affect the syrian revolution one bit. They deserve their freedom, They sacrificed so much for it and they are going to get it.
Its only a matter of time
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Ama2007
To be honest am not suprised at your lack of understanding of the syrian regime, it takes more than reading the BBC and a few articals to grasp the complex situation of this revolution. On one side you have the Iranians, chinese and russians supplying weapons to the regime to kill its own people and then you get people saying its not good vs bad, lol I know obviously! AND then you get those who want to ruin anythinh which doesnt go by their books. The revolution started for a reason and didnt just out of nowhere form? 23million people? they must have had at least some idea of what they were going into and what they wanted? no?
I really advice you as a fellow TSR to read about the history of syria... which is very interesting and explains many things happening right now, it makes sense once you understand the logic behind Bashar Al-assad assination of his own people.The history of how the army is formed and the oppression for 40 years.
However, Your support or lack of it wont affect the syrian revolution one bit. They deserve their freedom, They sacrificed so much for it and they are going to get it.
Its only a matter of time
I really advice you as a fellow TSR to read about the history of syria... which is very interesting and explains many things happening right now, it makes sense once you understand the logic behind Bashar Al-assad assination of his own people.The history of how the army is formed and the oppression for 40 years.
However, Your support or lack of it wont affect the syrian revolution one bit. They deserve their freedom, They sacrificed so much for it and they are going to get it.
Its only a matter of time
I did not deny that the Assad regime is oppressive and that it is the peoples right to revolt against such oppression but just getting rid of him isn't going to magically solve all problems. Look at Iraq and the problems it faced after Saddam left and something like that could easily occur in syria
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Original post by yg95
I did not deny that the Assad regime is oppressive and that it is the peoples right to revolt against such oppression but just getting rid of him isn't going to magically solve all problems. Look at Iraq and the problems it faced after Saddam left and something like that could easily occur in syria
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Posted from TSR Mobile
It will solve some problems, thats for sure. At least there wont be hundreds of Scud falling from the sky...onto fully residential areas.
There will ALWAYS be problems no matter where you are, however they range in severity and importance...for example here in the UK, we have problems regarding the current pension scheme in the NHS, mistakes in the NHS which have led to closing down of hospitals, bedroom tax and teenage pregancy, etc...to us those are really important issues but to other countries those are very trivial...if you know what i mean.
(edited 11 years ago)
Long live bashar al assad
Original post by castlemadeofsand
Have a look around this thread. Do you think any of us have the right to adopt such a smug and superior attitude with regards to brain washing. You may laugh at the idea that people believe that Assad is a good man or that Kim Jong-Un was born on a mountain and is the world's best golfer. Yet at the same time many across the globe probably find it absurd that students in one of the most educated countries and who are trained to be inquisitive, immediately believe the ridiculous "Evil assad vs noble and great freedom fighters and their faultless western allies", hollywood-esque narrative given to them.
I am sorry but everything I said is based on facts:
Asaad DOES imprison anyone who speaks against him or who publicly doesn't agree with him
Asaad IS bombing villages to silence protesters to make them frightened not caring who dies/what is hit
Stories of people being shot by the syrian army for refusing to worship Asaad are not uncommon...
excuse me but even if the FSA are a rouge bunch of people intent on destroying syria for their own agenda or are really america/isreal in disguise or whatever, do you think how Asaad is handling all this is the RIGHT way to go about it?!
How would you feel if you were totally innocent but your house got bombed, you lost everything and your children are dead. I highly doubt you would be all like "Oh its fine, Bashaar was just getting rid of those FSA scum."
Its awful and its hypocritical.
Lol, majority of people on this thread only support the rebels because of the news we hear everyday.
The west will make its people believe what they want it to believe.
The FSA has probably got as many scumbags as the Syrian Army, the FSA also are the ones majorly contributing to the deaths of civilians.
Read up and youll find that the FSA like to fight in civilian areas and mix amongst civilians, just to amp up their bid for power. But lets face it, your replacing a stable country with a unstable democracy, is it really worth it, look at egypt, look at libya, those countries are in **** at the moment.
Assad never killed his people before the war started, he's never intentionally killing innocent civilians. Wheres the sense in a government masscaring civilians and children? They havent done anything like that before, it can be argues that the FSA or Terorrist groups joint with them do it to make propaganda against the Government.
What people dont see is that its counterproductive to kill civilians of your own country, especially when you want to stay in power.
Dont listen to all the FSA propaganda bull**** that gets released on a daily basis. Its war and they want people on their side, whether it means massacaring people and blaming the opposition, or leading a journalist into a killzone, and then blaming the Syrian Army.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9321068/Channel-4-journalist-Alex-Thomson-says-Syria-rebels-led-me-into-death-trap.html
The west will make its people believe what they want it to believe.
The FSA has probably got as many scumbags as the Syrian Army, the FSA also are the ones majorly contributing to the deaths of civilians.
Read up and youll find that the FSA like to fight in civilian areas and mix amongst civilians, just to amp up their bid for power. But lets face it, your replacing a stable country with a unstable democracy, is it really worth it, look at egypt, look at libya, those countries are in **** at the moment.
Assad never killed his people before the war started, he's never intentionally killing innocent civilians. Wheres the sense in a government masscaring civilians and children? They havent done anything like that before, it can be argues that the FSA or Terorrist groups joint with them do it to make propaganda against the Government.
What people dont see is that its counterproductive to kill civilians of your own country, especially when you want to stay in power.
Dont listen to all the FSA propaganda bull**** that gets released on a daily basis. Its war and they want people on their side, whether it means massacaring people and blaming the opposition, or leading a journalist into a killzone, and then blaming the Syrian Army.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9321068/Channel-4-journalist-Alex-Thomson-says-Syria-rebels-led-me-into-death-trap.html
Original post by Jordan-James
Lol, majority of people on this thread only support the rebels because of the news we hear everyday.
The west will make its people believe what they want it to believe.
The FSA has probably got as many scumbags as the Syrian Army, the FSA also are the ones majorly contributing to the deaths of civilians.
Read up and youll find that the FSA like to fight in civilian areas and mix amongst civilians, just to amp up their bid for power. But lets face it, your replacing a stable country with a unstable democracy, is it really worth it, look at egypt, look at libya, those countries are in **** at the moment.
Assad never killed his people before the war started, he's never intentionally killing innocent civilians. Wheres the sense in a government masscaring civilians and children? They havent done anything like that before, it can be argues that the FSA or Terorrist groups joint with them do it to make propaganda against the Government.
What people dont see is that its counterproductive to kill civilians of your own country, especially when you want to stay in power.
Dont listen to all the FSA propaganda bull**** that gets released on a daily basis. Its war and they want people on their side, whether it means massacaring people and blaming the opposition, or leading a journalist into a killzone, and then blaming the Syrian Army.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9321068/Channel-4-journalist-Alex-Thomson-says-Syria-rebels-led-me-into-death-trap.html
The west will make its people believe what they want it to believe.
The FSA has probably got as many scumbags as the Syrian Army, the FSA also are the ones majorly contributing to the deaths of civilians.
Read up and youll find that the FSA like to fight in civilian areas and mix amongst civilians, just to amp up their bid for power. But lets face it, your replacing a stable country with a unstable democracy, is it really worth it, look at egypt, look at libya, those countries are in **** at the moment.
Assad never killed his people before the war started, he's never intentionally killing innocent civilians. Wheres the sense in a government masscaring civilians and children? They havent done anything like that before, it can be argues that the FSA or Terorrist groups joint with them do it to make propaganda against the Government.
What people dont see is that its counterproductive to kill civilians of your own country, especially when you want to stay in power.
Dont listen to all the FSA propaganda bull**** that gets released on a daily basis. Its war and they want people on their side, whether it means massacaring people and blaming the opposition, or leading a journalist into a killzone, and then blaming the Syrian Army.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9321068/Channel-4-journalist-Alex-Thomson-says-Syria-rebels-led-me-into-death-trap.html
Its time for washington to step down. Assad has proven himself a reliable leader for Syria and a true inspiration for the world.
Original post by lancesephyr
Its time for washington to step down. Assad has proven himself a reliable leader for Syria and a true inspiration for the world.
No he hasnt
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Original post by yg95
Assad is just a man defending his nation.
Original post by lancesephyr
Its time for washington to step down. Assad has proven himself a reliable leader for Syria and a true inspiration for the world.
LOL....you defo live in your own bubble! God help you
Original post by lancesephyr
Assad is just a man defending his nation.
Note like suppressing internal dissent to stay in power most of the FSA are Syrian although there are a minority of foreign fighters
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Original post by yg95
Note like suppressing internal dissent to stay in power most of the FSA are Syrian although there are a minority of foreign fighters
Posted from TSR Mobile
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shame on Washington for its support for FSA zionists. Assad is a man of the people, the best thing that happened to Syria.
long live the Syrian Arab Army.
Original post by Ama2007
LOL....you defo live in your own bubble! God help you
Whether you like it or not Assad is still holding on to power, regardless of the zionist and Pentagon interventions, what a hero this man has become.
His wife is fit 
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Original post by lancesephyr
Whether you like it or not Assad is still holding on to power, regardless of the zionist and Pentagon interventions, what a hero this man has become.
You make me laugh...I am sorry but your so funny! You have added no value to this discussion apart from the typical brainwashed assad mafia...but then I look that this is your first few post so its okay-you need time to find your feet!
Original post by Jordan-James
Lol, majority of people on this thread only support the rebels because of the news we hear everyday.
The west will make its people believe what they want it to believe.
The FSA has probably got as many scumbags as the Syrian Army, the FSA also are the ones majorly contributing to the deaths of civilians.
Read up and youll find that the FSA like to fight in civilian areas and mix amongst civilians, just to amp up their bid for power. But lets face it, your replacing a stable country with a unstable democracy, is it really worth it, look at egypt, look at libya, those countries are in **** at the moment.
Assad never killed his people before the war started, he's never intentionally killing innocent civilians. Wheres the sense in a government masscaring civilians and children? They havent done anything like that before, it can be argues that the FSA or Terorrist groups joint with them do it to make propaganda against the Government.
What people dont see is that its counterproductive to kill civilians of your own country, especially when you want to stay in power.
Dont listen to all the FSA propaganda bull**** that gets released on a daily basis. Its war and they want people on their side, whether it means massacaring people and blaming the opposition, or leading a journalist into a killzone, and then blaming the Syrian Army.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9321068/Channel-4-journalist-Alex-Thomson-says-Syria-rebels-led-me-into-death-trap.html
The west will make its people believe what they want it to believe.
The FSA has probably got as many scumbags as the Syrian Army, the FSA also are the ones majorly contributing to the deaths of civilians.
Read up and youll find that the FSA like to fight in civilian areas and mix amongst civilians, just to amp up their bid for power. But lets face it, your replacing a stable country with a unstable democracy, is it really worth it, look at egypt, look at libya, those countries are in **** at the moment.
Assad never killed his people before the war started, he's never intentionally killing innocent civilians. Wheres the sense in a government masscaring civilians and children? They havent done anything like that before, it can be argues that the FSA or Terorrist groups joint with them do it to make propaganda against the Government.
What people dont see is that its counterproductive to kill civilians of your own country, especially when you want to stay in power.
Dont listen to all the FSA propaganda bull**** that gets released on a daily basis. Its war and they want people on their side, whether it means massacaring people and blaming the opposition, or leading a journalist into a killzone, and then blaming the Syrian Army.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9321068/Channel-4-journalist-Alex-Thomson-says-Syria-rebels-led-me-into-death-trap.html
Refer to my post above, it doesn't matter if the FSA are freedom fighters or if they really are just a bunch of terrorists. Bashaars response to them is completely and utterly unacceptable and barbarric.
"Assad never killed his people before the war started, he's never intentionally killing innocent civilians."
Oh yes he has. Not only that but he used to torture them and imprison them indefinitely without trial. Children haven't seen their parents for decades because they are still inside those prisons and are being constantly tortured for questionable crimes (e.g.disagreeing with Asaads dictatorship) This is what syria was like before all this started.
Also you fail to remember that Bashaars dad Hafiz killed 40,000 people just because they were starting a revolution. The whole of Hama was wiped out and it was used as a deterrent for the rest of syria to not try and do something similar.
"The FSA has probably got as many scumbags as the Syrian Army, the FSA also are the ones majorly contributing to the deaths of civilians."
Explain to me how the FSA could get their hands on helicopters and bombs? They are obviously Asaads bombs.
I am not saying the FSA is squeaky clean and pure, but at least some are fighting for the right cause. I agree some may be corrupt. I agree they probably won't be the best to rule Syria. But asaad is way waaay worse and he has to go.
"What people dont see is that its counterproductive to kill civilians of your own country, especially when you want to stay in power."
You are correct, it is counterproductive. What we have here on our hands is not just a leader who cares about his civillians and his country, it is a hitler-like dictator who will stop at nothing to remain in power.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Ama2007
You make me laugh...I am sorry but your so funny! You have added no value to this discussion apart from the typical brainwashed assad mafia...but then I look that this is your first few post so its okay-you need time to find your feet!
Just how FSA zionists are getting armed to the teeth by the regime in London, I think that the Syrian government should also invest in anti-air weapons for Scotland. Real Scottish people are going to become like the Taliban, under assault from the London beast.
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