Is pedophilia a sexuality?
First off all, by starting this discussion I am in no way attempting to condone the actions of pedophiles and I trust that no one else will try to either.
Yesterday I watched a German film called 'Das letzte Schweigen' (the last silence/ silent one). It is about a man who is present when a friend rapes and kills a teenage girl, then keeps it silent for 25 years until his friend murders again. Both the men are pedophiles and they watch child-pornography together. The murderer is more active than the 'silent one', who denies his attraction to children and even begins a family of his own with a successful careers as an architect.
Now I thought it was interesting that the attraction to children was portrayed not simply as a sick obsession, or even just as an illness. In a way it was conveyed as a 'sexuality'; in the same way homosexuals are attracted to the same-sex, bi-sexuals to both etc. At one point, the murderer asks the protagonist 'How long have you had these feelings?'. It made me realise I had asked a similar question to myself when I realised I was homosexual. It suggests developing sexual feelings that you cannot escape from, which is essentially what sexuality is defined as. Pedophiles carry out their acts, not out of blatant choice, but because of urges that they cannot control.
To answer my own question, I don't personally view pedophilia as a sexuality. It's an illness that probably finds cause in some trauma or other event experienced by the subject in their childhood. It's an illness that should be treated so as to prevent harm to other(which leads to a whole other question, how could someone suffering as a pedophile ever hope to get help?).
Yesterday I watched a German film called 'Das letzte Schweigen' (the last silence/ silent one). It is about a man who is present when a friend rapes and kills a teenage girl, then keeps it silent for 25 years until his friend murders again. Both the men are pedophiles and they watch child-pornography together. The murderer is more active than the 'silent one', who denies his attraction to children and even begins a family of his own with a successful careers as an architect.
Now I thought it was interesting that the attraction to children was portrayed not simply as a sick obsession, or even just as an illness. In a way it was conveyed as a 'sexuality'; in the same way homosexuals are attracted to the same-sex, bi-sexuals to both etc. At one point, the murderer asks the protagonist 'How long have you had these feelings?'. It made me realise I had asked a similar question to myself when I realised I was homosexual. It suggests developing sexual feelings that you cannot escape from, which is essentially what sexuality is defined as. Pedophiles carry out their acts, not out of blatant choice, but because of urges that they cannot control.
To answer my own question, I don't personally view pedophilia as a sexuality. It's an illness that probably finds cause in some trauma or other event experienced by the subject in their childhood. It's an illness that should be treated so as to prevent harm to other(which leads to a whole other question, how could someone suffering as a pedophile ever hope to get help?).
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I don't think you have a choice in it, but you sure do have a choice in whether or not you act on it because it's children you're attracted to that are too young and cannot give consent to any kind of sexual relationship. I personally think it's a fetish of some kind, but I do not condone it, nor do I think it can be "treated".
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by nickth
First off all, by starting this discussion I am in no way attempting to condone the actions of pedophiles and I trust that no one else will try to either.
Pedophiles have no 'actions' associated with them. Child abuse and pedophilia are not one and the same.
Original post by nickth
Pedophiles carry out their acts, not out of blatant choice, but because of urges that they cannot control.
They can control their urges. You mention you are a gay man - do you go around sexually assaulting men? No, you control your urges just as a pedophile should.
Original post by nickth
To answer my own question, I don't personally view pedophilia as a sexuality. It's an illness that probably finds cause in some trauma or other event experienced by the subject in their childhood. It's an illness that should be treated so as to prevent harm to other(which leads to a whole other question, how could someone suffering as a pedophile ever hope to get help?).
I'm not sure it's an illness, no more than homosexuality is an illness. However, I agree that some sort of help and support without a stigma should be available. We need to stop approaching pedophilia with blind hatred and actually deal with it rationally (or at least deal with some of it's products).
I sort of understand the point you're making. I will admit I was ready to read this thread and shoot you down for being an idiot, but after reading it you're obviously not. Its actually a pretty interesting point.
It's most definitely an illness or sickness. I think one way you can separate it from what you said about someone who is homosexual is that homosexuality harms no one. Between two consenting adults there is no victim and no one stands to get hurt or taken advantage of, so its not wrong. With pedophilia, children are young and innocent and vulnerable. Which is what makes the whole thing wrong, even it if its sexual feelings they can't help. I suppose that's how you can separate pedophilia from different sexualities. At the end of the day, if children weren't vulnerable and basically everything that makes a child a child, then it probably wouldn't actually be considered wrong.
And like you said, it all probably stems from some psychological problem caused by trauma or maybe even biology, if chemicals aren't working quite how they should. After all sexual attraction is all chemicals. Therapy I would imagine is the only hope of them getting help, if you're willing to look past the gut instinct answer of castration.
It's most definitely an illness or sickness. I think one way you can separate it from what you said about someone who is homosexual is that homosexuality harms no one. Between two consenting adults there is no victim and no one stands to get hurt or taken advantage of, so its not wrong. With pedophilia, children are young and innocent and vulnerable. Which is what makes the whole thing wrong, even it if its sexual feelings they can't help. I suppose that's how you can separate pedophilia from different sexualities. At the end of the day, if children weren't vulnerable and basically everything that makes a child a child, then it probably wouldn't actually be considered wrong.
And like you said, it all probably stems from some psychological problem caused by trauma or maybe even biology, if chemicals aren't working quite how they should. After all sexual attraction is all chemicals. Therapy I would imagine is the only hope of them getting help, if you're willing to look past the gut instinct answer of castration.
pedophilia is a sexuality.
child abuse is an action.
unfortunately for pedophiles they have to either be strong enough to ensure they don't act on their attractions or thy will become child abusers as there is no legitimate way for them to satisfy them.
pedophilia is something that they can't help or escape from. Acting on it and abusing children is not.
edit: actually most unfortunately there is no real way of them asking for help and support with dealing with this sexuality they can't act or or escape from. Simply mentioning they have the feelings will get them demonised not help. This almost certainly leads to more of them giving into it than would otherwise and therefore more abuse of innocent children.
child abuse is an action.
unfortunately for pedophiles they have to either be strong enough to ensure they don't act on their attractions or thy will become child abusers as there is no legitimate way for them to satisfy them.
pedophilia is something that they can't help or escape from. Acting on it and abusing children is not.
edit: actually most unfortunately there is no real way of them asking for help and support with dealing with this sexuality they can't act or or escape from. Simply mentioning they have the feelings will get them demonised not help. This almost certainly leads to more of them giving into it than would otherwise and therefore more abuse of innocent children.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by boba
pedophilia is a sexuality.
No, no, it's not. It's a paraphilia, or a harmful/abnormal sexual fetish. It's not a sexuality. You can have homosexual paedophiles, heterosexual ones, bisexual or even pansexual ones.
You also can have paedophiles who are attracted to people their own age as well.
In the end, though, what you're advocating (ie. treatment) is no different to a Christian advocating treatment for homosexuality. As long as someone's urges are hurting no one else, there is no need for treatment unless the person wants treatment.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Hylean
No, no, it's not. It's a paraphilia, or a harmful/abnormal sexual fetish. It's not a sexuality. You can have homosexual paedophiles, heterosexual ones, bisexual or even pansexual ones.
You also can have paedophiles who are also attracted to people their own age.
In the end, though, what your advocating (ie. treatment) is no different to a Christian advocating treatment for homosexuality. As long as someone's urges are hurting no one else, there is no need for treatment unless the person wants treatment.
You also can have paedophiles who are also attracted to people their own age.
In the end, though, what your advocating (ie. treatment) is no different to a Christian advocating treatment for homosexuality. As long as someone's urges are hurting no one else, there is no need for treatment unless the person wants treatment.
I'm not advocating "treatment" I'm advocating support rather than demonising or those struggling to deal with the desires they know its wrong to act on.
fair enough with the correction of the definition I was just going by the deffinition of sexuality that the op gave.
Original post by nickth
but because of urges that they cannot control.
It may well be a matter of careless phrasing, but this is completely wrong. Whilst I agree with most of the things you have said, it is absolutely ridiculous to claim that pedophiles 'cannot control' their urges. That claim is neither an excuse nor a reason for a pedophile to break the law and abuse a child.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by boba
I'm not advocating "treatment" I'm advocating support rather than demonising or those struggling to deal with the desires they know its wrong to act on.
fair enough with the correction of the definition I was just going by the deffinition of sexuality that the op gave.
fair enough with the correction of the definition I was just going by the deffinition of sexuality that the op gave.
The advocating treatment was aimed at the OP, not you.
The definition of "sexuality" the OP gave is technically wrong. What he means is "sexual orientation" and even then, it does not fall under the definition given.
Either way, paedophilia is neither a sexual orientation or a sexuality.
It's a tricky issue, however peadophiles argue that gays are treated fair then why arent they.
Not all peadophiles are rapists, id say luring young people into sex isnt quite the same as raping them.
Nevertheless its disgusting.
Not all peadophiles are rapists, id say luring young people into sex isnt quite the same as raping them.
Nevertheless its disgusting.
Original post by Chlorophile
It may well be a matter of careless phrasing, but this is completely wrong. Whilst I agree with most of the things you have said, it is absolutely ridiculous to claim that pedophiles 'cannot control' their urges. That claim is neither an excuse nor a reason for a pedophile to break the law and abuse a child.
But why am I wrong?
If you are a heterosexual male and you weren't allowed to have sexual relations with a female, in the same way a pedophile is restricted from accessing a child, then consider how you would act upon your urges and to what extent these would have a considerable effect on your life - wanting to do something that is deemed morally wrong and unacceptable. No one can control their sexual urges, that is just human nature.
Original post by nickth
But why am I wrong?
If you are a heterosexual male and you weren't allowed to have sexual relations with a female, in the same way a pedophile is restricted from accessing a child, then consider how you would act upon your urges and to what extent these would have a considerable effect on your life - wanting to do something that is deemed morally wrong and unacceptable. No one can control their sexual urges, that is just human nature.
If you are a heterosexual male and you weren't allowed to have sexual relations with a female, in the same way a pedophile is restricted from accessing a child, then consider how you would act upon your urges and to what extent these would have a considerable effect on your life - wanting to do something that is deemed morally wrong and unacceptable. No one can control their sexual urges, that is just human nature.
Single men control their urges every day of their lives.
Original post by nickth
But why am I wrong?
If you are a heterosexual male and you weren't allowed to have sexual relations with a female, in the same way a pedophile is restricted from accessing a child, then consider how you would act upon your urges and to what extent these would have a considerable effect on your life - wanting to do something that is deemed morally wrong and unacceptable. No one can control their sexual urges, that is just human nature.
If you are a heterosexual male and you weren't allowed to have sexual relations with a female, in the same way a pedophile is restricted from accessing a child, then consider how you would act upon your urges and to what extent these would have a considerable effect on your life - wanting to do something that is deemed morally wrong and unacceptable. No one can control their sexual urges, that is just human nature.
if noone could control their sexual urges everyone who had ever been turned down, even by a partner not feeling like it at that exact time, would be a rapist.
Original post by Hylean
The advocating treatment was aimed at the OP, not you.
The definition of "sexuality" the OP gave is technically wrong. What he means is "sexual orientation" and even then, it does not fall under the definition given.
Either way, paedophilia is neither a sexual orientation or a sexuality.
The definition of "sexuality" the OP gave is technically wrong. What he means is "sexual orientation" and even then, it does not fall under the definition given.
Either way, paedophilia is neither a sexual orientation or a sexuality.
Is there an actual medical/psychological definition of sexuality and sexual orientation? Are they purely based on gender?
Original post by boba
if noone could control their sexual urges everyone who had ever been turned down, even by a partner not feeling like it at that exact time, would be a rapist.
It's not quite the same. If a normal straight man gets turned down, he knows that there are other options out there. There's always a chance they can find a sexual partner. But for a paedophile there is no way they can ever consensually act out their desires. It's either molest a child or be celibate.
Original post by Psyk
Is there an actual medical/psychological definition of sexuality and sexual orientation? Are they purely based on gender?
It's not quite the same. If a normal straight man gets turned down, he knows that there are other options out there. There's always a chance they can find a sexual partner. But for a paedophile there is no way they can ever consensually act out their desires. It's either molest a child or be celibate.
It's not quite the same. If a normal straight man gets turned down, he knows that there are other options out there. There's always a chance they can find a sexual partner. But for a paedophile there is no way they can ever consensually act out their desires. It's either molest a child or be celibate.
and people in the world are celibate.
I never said it would be just as easy but it is possible they can do it with enough will power. The OP was suggesting it was more like "I have this urge I not have no choice but to act on it"
Original post by boba
and people in the world are celibate.
I never said it would be just as easy but it is possible they can do it with enough will power. The OP was suggesting it was more like "I have this urge I not have no choice but to act on it"
I never said it would be just as easy but it is possible they can do it with enough will power. The OP was suggesting it was more like "I have this urge I not have no choice but to act on it"
Yeah true. But I think people who can cope with being celibate are a minority.
Original post by Psyk
Yeah true. But I think people who can cope with being celibate are a minority.
which is why these people should be able to seek help and support in doing so rather than knowing that if they so much as voice the feelings everyone will turn on them.
That way more of them would succeed and less people (pedophiles and children) would have their lives ruined by it.
Paedophilia is just like homosexuality in that you can't control who you are sexually attracted to and I really feel sorry for people who are sexually attracted to kids because they can't help it and probably feel like monsters. Of course, it must be noted, I have no sympathy for paedophiles who actually go as far as sexually abusing children.
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