Why is this sexism allowed - Women in Science

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Because getting outraged over something as small as this is pointless.

My point is that if companies or whoever is offering this grant just made it open for both genders in the first place then there wouldn't be any need for people to get outraged.

Posted from TSR Mobile

I agree that it should be open for both genders or that industries such as childcare should open similar grants for men etc, but the point still stands that if people dont like something they should speak up, not bitch about another group who do actually make that effort.

Reply 41

Bellissima

Original post by Jordan.G

Well that's not sexist at all.

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well everyone was thinking it.

Reply 42

Jordan.G

Original post by Bellissima

yes i'm sorry but if women were running this **** then we'd already be living in a flying city on the other side of the universe 1000 years in the future. i think we just have more brain cells dedicated to intelligent thinking.

This is amazing.

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Reply 43

DashingHero

I read through everyone's comments but still don't understand really why there are scholarships like this.

I've applied to study engineering at uni and one of my teachers turned around and said that the fact that I'm female applying for a male dominated subject would give me an advantage.

I do not want this advantage. I want to be considered purely because they think I would be brilliant and could do well at the course (or future job!)

Okay, I understand that scientific subjects are male dominated but does it really matter to have diversity in every single subject. Others have said about male nurses being a minority and of course doctors (though I think that last one is becoming more equal).

See I think one of the issues is based on stereotypes. Stereotypically a nurse is female, a doctor is male and I've even heard that stereotypically a kindergarden/primary school teacher is female. Maybe we should learn to break these stereotypes and accept that any gender can do any job. (Allowing some stuff though - I know the Navy only allows males to apply to work on the submarines for health and safety reasons I presume since they go underwater for a long time)

Someone also said that the gender minority applying for a course would apply any even if there wasn't a schlorship just for them and I totally agree. I want to work in the nuclear engineering industry so I'm going to do that whether you offer me extra money or not to do the course. So you might as well keep your money and use it on something more worthwhile, like helping more disadvantaged teens go to uni or something.

Reply 44

kunoichi

I really dont care what gender you are, neither have i accused you of being sexist.

Reply 45

Ynang

You could be right in that in a totally equal world having a grant that doesn't include men might not be OK, but this world is by no means equal!

For centuries, women have been excluded from science, and this grant is one persons attempt to help remedy that. These women-only grants are needed, not only for equality, but for the future of science! We NEED women to be scientists to contribute to the discoveries to tackle the massive problems we face, and these grants are a way of pulling down the remnants of the old male-dominance that used to plague science.

Dont get me wrong - I totally understand your irritation at being excluded from such a good grant just because of your gender. Hopefully, in the future, gender based grants wont be needed...

Reply 46

Muppet Science

Original post by Bellissima

I... just...

I actually cannot fathom what you are on about.

Reply 47

RedDevilThing

No need. She is most definitely trolling. Thanks for the rep though, I've returned the favour.

Troll post:

Original post by Bellissima

Reply 48

Jordan.G

Original post by Bellissima

well everyone was thinking it.

No, no they're not. The people that say the entirety of one gender is more intelligent than the other are nothing more than sexist, and I imagine the vast majority of feminists would find a comment like that simply embarrassing that people genuinely hold views like that.

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Reply 49

scrotgrot

And yet still the buggers don't actually apply for courses in STEM subjects, and then they complain there is a pay gap. I mean, the education system is biased in favour of women, there are no barriers to entry to these subjects for women in the first place, in fact, positive discrimination like this abounds in every high-earning field from science to finance. Whatever job they're in, they then get legal protection so that they can still have a high salary even though they take time off to raise the kids; men don't get that. Women retire earlier and die later. What more can we do, for Christ's sake? There comes a time when women have to stop accepting free hand-ups and step up to the plate.

And heaven forbid that the same unfair privileges be extended to men in shortage fields, heaven forbid even further that we actually select candidates based on merit!

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 50

Bellissima

why would i have blocked you?

Reply 51

Muppet Science

Original post by Ynang

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_scientists_before_the_21st_century#Middle_Ages

You were saying?

Also we do not 'NEED' women to be scientists, what we need are the finest minds in science and those minds which have the capacity to be so to be scientists, irrespective of whether they are male or female.

Additionally, 'These women-only grants are needed, not only for equality' I think you will find is rather paradoxical and oxymoron-esque.

Reply 52

Unkempt_One

Original post by Mockery

If the whole population was as incompetent as you to extrapolate data and information from other sources and then to apply them to our own species and endeavours then we'd get absolutely nowhere.

Would you compare contrast between two completely different spieces that are not human, such as looking at the hunting and stalking skills of each, understanding that they both exploit their environment for camouflage and what has driving them to develop such similar behaviour? If so, then why can't you do the same thing between humans and other species, maybe even very closely related species such as chimpanzees and bonobo apes?

Your logic is wrong on such a fundamental level I'm having difficulty thinking how to respond to this. Let me put it this way. Two species are observed to exhibit similar behaviours in camouflaging themselves. Then what? What's the point you are trying to make from this, apart from, these two animals camouflage themselves similarly. What does this imply apart from itself?

Reply 53

Muppet Science

Original post by Jordan.G

Completely agree (would rep but have run out today)

Reply 54

jumpingjesusholycow

Original post by anonymouspie227

I think it's nice. I think the idea of encouraging people from under-represented groups in a particular field, to study in that area, via scholarships are good. Individuals may not choose to study had it not been for those possible awards...

Edit: Also, if we lived in world where there was no negative discrimination, and people weren't therefore disadvantaged for, whatever reason, and real equality existed universally, then I'd disagree with such schemes.

I disagree. It is not the place of a public institution to offer free hand-outs to people they think of as "victim cases". It is their impetus to treat everyone equally regardless of race/gender/religion. This does not mean trying to balance out perceived unfair gender ratio with equally unfair handouts to people of a certain persuasion. A much more effective way of decreasing discrimination is (and I'm not sure if they do this already or not) making applications anonymous. Make it so that they don't know your age/name/location/income.

Reply 55

Mockery

Finding one or two exceptions to a rule do not disprove it, yet I feel that is what you are basing your opinions on, and leads to you describing any example imaginably possible as being flimsy..

- There are vast amounts of females compared to males in care-giving roles because to do that you need to be more emotionally empathetic and patient.

- There are greater numbers of males in the emergancy services and armed forces (only taking into consideration those open equally to both genders).

Everything I put forward you will described as being due to societal pressure, yet you completely ignore the fact that societal pressures are based on opinions, opinions than stems from our different 'skill sets' in the first place. The pressure is there to get the majority of individuals into the place where they best fit, it is not all driven by sexism and gender superiority.

Reply 56

bestofyou

disagree. If used on a temporary basis to balance one sided statistics then it is a good thing. The will improve female numbers in STEM subjects and help overwrite the widespread belief that STEM subjects are male dominated for whatever reason and women are better suited to subjects such as health and humanities. Positive discrimination used in the correct places doesn't say that there is a difference. It says that once there was believed to be a difference and as a result an imbalance has occurred.

Another example:
Without positive discrimination in the PSNI there PSNI would be a protestant dominated force and still viewed in the same light as the RUC.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 57

scrotgrot

Original post by kunoichi

The asumption i made that men couldnt be bothered to speak out comes from seeing a lot of guys on TSR and other forums, simply moaning but doing nothing.Yes there are a few women, but a greater number of men seem to speak so harshly about feminsists simply for being motivated when they themselves cba to do anything other than sit on a forum and whine about it.

And why should they not be heard? If feminists can make themselves heard so can anyone else, just try hard enough. Nothing stopping women and anyone who calls themself a feminist joining in if they support them either.

I didnt say in my post that only women were feminists either before i get accused of that :rolleyes:

In fact I have heard it argued that the reason men do not band together in solidarity and lead an emancipation movement is because women are naturally more gregarious and sisterhood-y. Us lot are too concerned with competing against one another.

You could say this is a vicious circle, that the very masculine traits we need to emancipate ourselves from are what stop us from doing that. Or you could say that as women gain more power, feminise society and begin to denigrate ultra-masculine types it will be more acceptable for men to share our feelings with other men. It remains to be seen, however I think lately we are seeing the beginnings of a movement.