International Topless Jihad Day.

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Why shouldn't women be topless in public? Because it offends you?

Idk, there's just something wrong about it. I think it's because it's perceived as a sexual part of the body; where would we cross the line, if one even exists?
Slightly deviating from the purpose of this thread.

Reply 21

Messalina

Original post by TheAsian

Meh there isn't really much of a point to debate on this thread, other than whether or not you agree with Femen.

And it's legal to be topless, as long as you aren't disturbing the peace (which is exactly what Femen do). I think if it's okay to go and buy a national newspaper and see naked breasts on the front cover, then it should be alright for women to go topless in certain situations, if they wish to.

(That said, I'm being contrary - I'm against things like page 3 and I don't like public nudity in any form, but I'm not going to confuse my personal opinion with the way things are)

Edit: neg? really? Just an opinion, come and debate it if you like :rolleyes:

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 22

Umar1

Don't see why a women has to degrade herself like this.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 23

sevchenko

Original post by edithwashere

Why shouldn't women be topless in public? Because it offends you?

Isn't it against the Law under the Sexual Offences Act 2003.

Reply 24

navarre

I totally clicked the link because I am interested in world affairs. Of course I didn't click the link because it had the word 'topless' in it. Um... yeah.

Reply 25

username945663

So they expect Tunisian Muslims to listen to them because they got topless?

Reply 26

TheHistoryStudent

Original post by Kiss

I think they're hypocrites for telling women they should be empowered and have the right to do what they want with their bodies then ignore the women who choose to wear the the Hijab and Niqab. Just like feminists who say that being a house wife is slavery, ignoring any testimony from the women who choose to be a house wife.

This too to an extent for me. Feminism should I think be about choice/liberty, not empowerment. I feel that the former promotes the freedom to do something, while the latter promotes the thing itself. The difference between the two is subtle, but one which ultimately I think leads to those who do not conform to doing the promoted thing being looked down upon, and that's just as wrong in my view as the original situation where women were not allowed to do X act.

Reply 27

Perseveranze

Next week, let's protest on Sikh's who are forced to grow their hair and wear turban. Maybe we can go bold this time, oh and whilst we're at it, throw in a few insults against Sikhism too. That'll show our support for the oppressed.

Reply 28

Dirac Delta Function

Original post by That Bearded Man

I'm sure they're just assuming muslim women wear the hijab "because their husbands tell them to." Which tbh I'm sure is quite common, but they completely ignore those who do so out of choice. So.......fair do's for standing up but they haven't quite gone about it the right way

It probably is common, but the opposite also happens: Men telling them to remove their hijab. I know of a few incidences where men have stipulated to their fiances/GFs must take off the hijab if she wants to marry him.

Reply 29

Cattty

Original post by Kiss

this is one of the best things ive heard in a long time.
muslim women should have to choice if they want to wear revealing clothes.

as you say they 'choose' to wear the hijab and niqab- as some of them say. but how much choice is there.

- from a young age, muslim girls are told they cannot show their legs or other body parts, they must keep covered up.
- as they get older, this rule is enforced more strictly.
- when they get married, they are expected to obey their husband- not many men want other men admiring their wife's beauty.

it is unnatural to cover your face, it affects communication and socialsation with others and can create a barrier to mixing with people outside your religious community.

talking from a scientific point of view. it is natural for living beings to make themselves attractive to the opposite sex- peacocks spreading their feathers, mammals preening and doing mating calls, etc. so why shouldnt humans do this.

if you work hard to keep yourself looking nice then live by the rule:

if youve got it, flaunt it.......

Reply 30

Umar1

Original post by Cattty

- from a young age, muslim girls are told they cannot show their legs or other body parts, they must keep covered up.

In the same a man has to cover up. Both need to wear loose and non transparent clothes.

Original post by Cattty

- as they get older, this rule is enforced more strictly.

Same with men.

Original post by Cattty

- when they get married, they are expected to obey their husband-

And the husband needs to acknowledge and obey the rights of his wife as well.

Original post by Cattty

not many men want other men admiring their wife's beauty.

I am sure this is prevalent in all societies.

Original post by Cattty

it is unnatural to cover your face, it affects communication and socialsation with others and can create a barrier to mixing with people outside your religious community.

I agree with this Covering the face is a minority view.

The majority of the classical scholars of tafseer held the view that a women should not cover her face, Most prominent of those being Ibn Abbas. All four schools of thought hold this view as well.

Original post by Cattty

talking from a scientific point of view. it is natural for living beings to make themselves attractive to the opposite sex- peacocks spreading their feathers, mammals preening and doing mating calls, etc. so why shouldnt humans do this.

According to your view than we should also go out naked?

What's wrong with it? We are born that way and it is natural in all living beings bar humans no?

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 31

Heteronym

I've seen lots of males walking shirtless (especially in a hot day near the beach) and they didn't get "evacuted" nor did they break the law. So why should it be different for women?

I wonder if it's so because the general culture in the last millenium has been oversexualizing women's bodies to the point it becames obscene and an object with value of trade, where we can elect the "preferrable" shapes.
Breasts are sexual for both sides. I've been personally told by a woman that male's breasts arouse her. There's obvisouly a difference in the common sense at the present situation, but this difference shouldn't exist in the first place.

I think FEMEN is far from being a reasonable and trustworthy feminist organization, but I don't think they are doing too much evil anyway. On the contrarty, actually. They ARE being heard, and they have a valid point.

The amount of progress made by the gay and feminist communities in those last decades is nothing short than amazing. So much have changed since the 60's that it's unbelievable, so, please, don't dismiss it as "bull****" or "a way to degrade one's self"

And I think you're missing the point on the protest. Saying that they are "forcing women not to use what they want in Islamic countries" is just going overboard. A protest is a way to stand for something, NOT to discuss its intricated technicalities. I'm sure no feminist would have a got at a woman who CHOOSES to this or that, but the RULE is that those women are obliged to do so. Then, forgive the feminists if they didn't think it'd be as effective if they protested using signs reading "HOUSEWORK IS NOT ON US (WELL, ONLY IF WE ESPECIFICALLY SAY WE WANT IT TO BE!!)"

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 32

silent_poet786

In response to Topless Jihad Day many muslim women actually responded with a "Muslim Pride Day" and a lot of tweets of muslim women actually saying that they wear hijab solely by choice. Femen is trying "liberate" the women from islam when the majority of muslims actually want to wear it. The reason being is the culture they are brought up in makes them want to follow it and also because muslims have strong religious values.

This article on Al Jazeera can explain more about the response muslim women made to Femen: http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201304050033-0022659

Also this: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/04/05/muslim-women-against-femen-facebook-topless-jihad-pictures-amina-tyler_n_3021495.html?1365188694

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 33

Student296

Nothing more than a bunch of attention seekers imo.

Reply 34

Pigling

Original post by malikabdullah96

Also this: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/04/05/muslim-women-against-femen-facebook-topless-jihad-pictures-amina-tyler_n_3021495.html?1365188694

This, anyone can respect. A muslim woman making a choice and defending that choice and her views in a peaceful way.

But that is her personal view, and it applies to her. Other women (or men for that matter) are liberated by nudity, and are restricted by law and/or patriarchal social practices in many countries. It is a real problem, arguably reflecting wider limitations and negative attitudes toward women globally. Is it wrong to challenge that? It does not have to be done in a way which disrespects or undermines (muslim, or other) women's "modest" choices (although I won't dispute whether or not Femen have done this, as I don't know much about them).

For example, I strongly believe that women should be allowed to be topless in public, and that it is wrong for the imposed sexualisation f their breasts by other people, to result in limitation. But I have many friends who would never dream of revealing their breasts, and I don't judge or demean them for that choice. I might question it but that's different from judging or demeaning.

When it comes to the Hijab, by all means if people want to wear it I don't have a problem. But I do question the mentality that women's bodies are so sexual they have to or should wear it, which I perceive to be part of the reason behind its inception. I can discuss that notion and its validity, why people wear it, and the implications etc without seeking to personally undermine or patronise women who wear it, listening to their views, not seeking to prohibit them from wearing it (either by legal/physical enforcement, or social shaming).

Sorry I don't know why I've said all this to you as you didn't really make a comment either way :p:

Let's say I'm addressing myself in general to everyone then.

Reply 35

Electrodude

They did an amazing job insulting all the other muslim women how choose to wear the headscarf by their own choice.

FEMEN's response (on their FB) to the article mentioned above shows just how aggressive and totalitarian they are.

Reply 36

FCI

Original post by SannaS

Empowering women? Give me a break

its a jihad, cheer up

Reply 37

username945663

Their "protest" is pointless, heres what Putin thought of some Femen member.

Think the wrong message went across?

Reply 38

Kiss

Original post by IdeasForLife

Their "protest" is pointless, heres what Putin thought of some Femen member.

Think the wrong message went across?

That is awesome hahaha

Reply 39

kunoichi

Original post by TheAsian

I agree but i think when women get told off for sunbathing in their bras when a load of guys are running around topless playing football, then there is a slight problem.

I think female toplessness should be more acceptable than it is, in certain areas, like beaches, parks in summer and so on. Obviously not in city centres, men dont go topless there either really.