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Engineering without Further Maths

I hear that it is an unwritten rule that a candidate applying for an engineering discipline at top unis needs Further Maths. Is this true?

Do you know people that are on an Engineering course without having taken Further Maths at A Level?

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Reply 1
Avatar for Tomupcraft
Tomupcraft
7
Original post by NabRoh
I hear that it is an unwritten rule that a candidate applying for an engineering discipline at top unis needs Further Maths. Is this true?

Do you know people that are on an Engineering course without having taken Further Maths at A Level?


No, that is not true. I can only say from my experience but I have an offer from Imperial to study engineering without FM. I know civil engineering also does not require FM at Imperial and I am sure there are other engineering courses at top universities which do not require FM. FM may be a requirement at a select few universities, and an advantage at others but you will hardly limit yourself by not doing FM. Have a look at the entry requirements at the universities your interested in.
Reply 2
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madfish
Original post by Tomupcraft
No, that is not true. I can only say from my experience but I have an offer from Imperial to study engineering without FM. I know civil engineering also does not require FM at Imperial and I am sure there are other engineering courses at top universities which do not require FM. FM may be a requirement at a select few universities, and an advantage at others but you will hardly limit yourself by not doing FM. Have a look at the entry requirements at the universities your interested in.

What the hell? Really? How on earth did you manage that? Was your offer not something ridiculous like A*A*A*A then?
Reply 3
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Tomupcraft
7
Original post by madfish
What the hell? Really? How on earth did you manage that? Was your offer not something ridiculous like A*A*A*A then?


It was A*AAA in Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Biology respectively. I was surprised with the offer in comparison to offers other people were getting.
Reply 4
Avatar for NabRoh
NabRoh
OP
11
Original post by Tomupcraft
It was A*AAA in Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Biology respectively. I was surprised with the offer in comparison to offers other people were getting.

I must say that it sounds like you were very fortunate in the offer they gave you.
Imperial's entry requirements don't state it as a requirement. Cambridge state: "It is highly desirable to take Further Mathematics at AS or A2. Some Colleges may require achievement in Further Mathematics.". And a randomly chosen college at Cambridge (King's) say: "We strongly prefer applicants to study a third science / mathematics subject at the same level: Further Mathematics would be excellent wherever possible.".
Reply 5
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Tomupcraft
7
Original post by NabRoh
I must say that it sounds like you were very fortunate in the offer they gave you.
Imperial's entry requirements don't state it as a requirement. Cambridge state: "It is highly desirable to take Further Mathematics at AS or A2. Some Colleges may require achievement in Further Mathematics.". And a randomly chosen college at Cambridge (King's) say: "We strongly prefer applicants to study a third science / mathematics subject at the same level: Further Mathematics would be excellent wherever possible.".


Yes for Cambridge it is definitely seen as advantageous however I will let you know that I applied for Cambridge and was rejected after being pooled so I think it is unlikely that the reason was related to me not taking FM. So some colleges you will be fine to apply to without FM. If you want to take it, then take it (assuming your in year 11). When I came to choosing A Levels it was almost 50/50 between Biology and FM.
Aside from Imperial and Cambridge it doesn't seem to matter too much. Obviously it's an advantage if you do have Further Maths, not only for getting in to university but also because it gives you a head start in your first year maths, but you're still likely to get an offer as long as you meet the minimum entrance requirements.

(This is based on what it was like for me when I applied in 2010 and on what I've gathered from talking to admissions tutors and course mates since. It might not be as true now.)
Reply 7
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NabRoh
OP
11
Original post by Tomupcraft
Yes for Cambridge it is definitely seen as advantageous however I will let you know that I applied for Cambridge and was rejected after being pooled so I think it is unlikely that the reason was related to me not taking FM. So some colleges you will be fine to apply to without FM. If you want to take it, then take it (assuming your in year 11). When I came to choosing A Levels it was almost 50/50 between Biology and FM.

What happens in the pooling stage, did they tell you why you were declined?
I'm in Year 12 wanting to take FM AS in Year 13.

Original post by united.spammers
Aside from Imperial and Cambridge it doesn't seem to matter too much. Obviously it's an advantage if you do have Further Maths, not only for getting in to university but also because it gives you a head start in your first year maths, but you're still likely to get an offer as long as you meet the minimum entrance requirements.

(This is based on what it was like for me when I applied in 2010 and on what I've gathered from talking to admissions tutors and course mates since. It might not be as true now.)


Hmm those are my two main targets. Essentially I want to know, will it be worthwhile me taking up Further Maths AS (and thus increasing my Year 13 workload) for the competitive edge I will gain when applying to Imperial/Cambridge?
(edited 11 years ago)
It's normally beneficial but by no means necessary. I know a person that got an offer from Oxford to study engineering and another that got an offer to study chemical engineering via natural sciences from Cambridge, neither of which do further maths.
Reply 9
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Tomupcraft
7
Original post by NabRoh
What happens in the pooling stage, did they tell you why you were declined?
I'm in Year 12 wanting to take FM AS in Year 13.


I was sent a letter telling me that I was pooled and another college may pick me. Then received my final decision letter two weeks later. One thing to consider is whether it is worth carrying on all 4 AS levels to A level as this will affect the offer that Imperial will give. For example I carried on all my subject as the chances where I would be offered one A* less (which I was) the standard offer for my course was A*A*A or A*AAA. So it is worth looking ahead and thinking how many A* do you think you could realistically achieve.
Reply 10
Avatar for NabRoh
NabRoh
OP
11
Original post by Tomupcraft
I was sent a letter telling me that I was pooled and another college may pick me. Then received my final decision letter two weeks later. One thing to consider is whether it is worth carrying on all 4 AS levels to A level as this will affect the offer that Imperial will give. For example I carried on all my subject as the chances where I would be offered one A* less (which I was) the standard offer for my course was A*A*A or A*AAA. So it is worth looking ahead and thinking how many A* do you think you could realistically achieve.

Forgive me, I didn't quite understand that last point. Do Imperial lower their offer if you take on all four to A2?
edit: Now I see what you meant. So now there is another trade-off between FM competitive edge vs lower and more achievable offer... ugh more thinking.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by NabRoh
Forgive me, I didn't quite understand that last point. Do Imperial lower their offer if you take on all four to A2?
edit: Now I see what you meant. So now there is another trade-off between FM competitive edge vs lower and more achievable offer... ugh more thinking.


Yes, simply put if you have take 4 A levels your in with a shot of a offer with one fewer A* (but obviously an extra A) however Imperial are a bit unpredictable with offers as some offers this year have been as high as A*A*A*A* so take their standard offers with a pinch of salt. I was in your position last year too and decided to carry on with four A levels instead of picking up AS FM and it seemed to pay off, but it wont be the same for everyone.
Reply 12
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NabRoh
OP
11
Original post by Tomupcraft
Yes, simply put if you have take 4 A levels your in with a shot of a offer with one fewer A* (but obviously an extra A) however Imperial are a bit unpredictable with offers as some offers this year have been as high as A*A*A*A* so take their standard offers with a pinch of salt. I was in your position last year too and decided to carry on with four A levels instead of picking up AS FM and it seemed to pay off, but it wont be the same for everyone.

Ahh right, thanks for that. Glad to be conversing with someone that was in the same boat as me. Just wondering what type of engineering you picked by the way? And what your UMS's for your 4 AS were?
I'm Scottish. The Scottish Qualifications Authority doesn't have a Further Maths course. Come up here, they won't know what this Further Maths thing is and they'll be blown away with your dedication to numbers.

I'm only half joking.
Original post by NabRoh
Ahh right, thanks for that. Glad to be conversing with someone that was in the same boat as me. Just wondering what type of engineering you picked by the way? And what your UMS's for your 4 AS were?


Chemical engineering. 92% Bio, 90% Chem, 88% Maths, 80% Physics. However I had extenuating circumstances sent to my universities as I was unable to attend College for a prolonged length of time.
Reply 15
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user1111
2
you don't have to do FM. You'd do it purely out of interest.
(edited 11 years ago)
Hell, I'm doing engineering with just AS maths.

Don't expect to get into any fantastic university with just an AS (pretty much everywhere accepting grades will want an A2 as a minimum) but it's possible to get by.


The sorts of maths we use do stem from further maths, so it is certainly an advantage. Much of the rest is just picked up along the way. For many universities, just the A2 is required, but it would help your application to offer as much maths (and maths related subjects) as possible.
Reply 17
Avatar for NabRoh
NabRoh
OP
11
Original post by Tomupcraft
Chemical engineering. 92% Bio, 90% Chem, 88% Maths, 80% Physics. However I had extenuating circumstances sent to my universities as I was unable to attend College for a prolonged length of time.

Ahh, extenuating circumstances! Have to get me one of those. :tongue:

Original post by CurtainrailMan
I'm Scottish. The Scottish Qualifications Authority doesn't have a Further Maths course. Come up here, they won't know what this Further Maths thing is and they'll be blown away with your dedication to numbers.

I'm only half joking.

Unis are wising up to that now. They now have a Further Maths Support Network running that would be made compulsory if your college doesn't support FM qualification.
Yes, I am a first year engineering student who didn't do FM.
I am now up to the level of what FM have done, some unis are flexible and the maths modules are self paced.
Reply 19
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NabRoh
OP
11
Just a small update to the thread:
At a Cambridge Engineering event they explicitly stated that: "If you haven't got Further Maths its unlikely you coming here" paraphrased.

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