Manchester United tackles sound problems at Old Trafford
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-22046462
Surely a few more visiting fans or Mancunians instead of the usual glory seekers from south London or Dublin would be a simpler solution?
Surely a few more visiting fans or Mancunians instead of the usual glory seekers from south London or Dublin would be a simpler solution?
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You have to remember that a lot of their local fans have been priced out and at a club like theirs there will always be someone willing to take up the seat, a lot of their season tickets are passed around by executives, bankers, people at work etc. A lot of people inside the stadium are just there to be entertained, whereas at other, less successful clubs, more of their genuine support attend the games and get behind the team. Plus like you say there's the tourist aspect too. That's one of the drawbacks of being a successful club.
The structure of the stadium doesn't help either, it's far too big. It is very, very difficult to get any sort of atmosphere going with 76,000 people in the ground, bigger stadiums are not always better. If one section of the ground starts a song, the people on the other side aren't going to be able to hear because of how far away it is. You need to be able to hear each other otherwise different sections sing different songs, out of time and it goes quiet again.
The manager himself has had a go at the fans, but when they try to make a bit of noise the stewards eject them and take their season tickets off them. The club don't want your local lad from Urmston or Stretford in there, they want the family who will sit down, shut up and spend money in the megastore.
The structure of the stadium doesn't help either, it's far too big. It is very, very difficult to get any sort of atmosphere going with 76,000 people in the ground, bigger stadiums are not always better. If one section of the ground starts a song, the people on the other side aren't going to be able to hear because of how far away it is. You need to be able to hear each other otherwise different sections sing different songs, out of time and it goes quiet again.
The manager himself has had a go at the fans, but when they try to make a bit of noise the stewards eject them and take their season tickets off them. The club don't want your local lad from Urmston or Stretford in there, they want the family who will sit down, shut up and spend money in the megastore.
(edited 11 years ago)
The problem is that realistically, United can't get 60,000 die-hard local fans to pack the stadium because the tickets are too expensive. Instead you get people who go to a match for the experience and who know nothing of football. You also get rich people who can afford the tickets but refuse to contribute to the atmosphere. That would be the so-called prawn sandwich brigade. I think the solution would be cheaper tickets. These would allow more local fans to visit the game. It's worked in Germany, the atmosphere at Borussia Dortmund's stadium is incredible.
You don't need to hire some ''specialist'' to work out that many of the reasons behind this are not only a Manchester United problem, but issues with modern football in general. Things like all seater stadiums and over the top stewarding don't help, but many loyal supporters have simply been priced out of attending. In their place you get the half and half scarf wearing, johnny come lately brigade and tourists. It happens at every relatively successful club, even City are starting to get them. For example:
You also get those who don't bother with home games anymore and just go to aways. The atmosphere at OT is a bit flat but United's away fans are among the best in the country, the new wave of football fans don't do those games. Instead you just get the true fans who get behind their team. The same applies to teams like Arsenal, everyone says their ground is like a library but their away fans are really good.
You also get those who don't bother with home games anymore and just go to aways. The atmosphere at OT is a bit flat but United's away fans are among the best in the country, the new wave of football fans don't do those games. Instead you just get the true fans who get behind their team. The same applies to teams like Arsenal, everyone says their ground is like a library but their away fans are really good.
Usually now it's the away fans that are louder than the home fans. Although outnumbered it's usually the most ardent supporters that will travel to away games compared to home fans which sadly now consist of tourists and the commercial lot - as mentioned above, due to ticket prices.
No teams have fans as loud as they used to be. Look at other countries though, where fans are still as passionate as ever where there are less strict rules applied to them.
Germany/Turkey and the South Americans have some pretty hardcore fans still.
[video="youtube;1K-KNLfhsCs"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K-KNLfhsCs[/video]
No teams have fans as loud as they used to be. Look at other countries though, where fans are still as passionate as ever where there are less strict rules applied to them.
Germany/Turkey and the South Americans have some pretty hardcore fans still.
[video="youtube;1K-KNLfhsCs"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K-KNLfhsCs[/video]
We could all tell them the problem but they'd rather pay a yes man to tell them what they want to hear. The real reasons have already been covered in this thread anyway, it's obvious and no amount of acoustic specialists can fix the solution. The only structural improvement that would add to the noise level is to extend the main stand up to the same height as the north stand so that the sound doesnt dissipate over the low roof. That's too expensive though and would take the capacity to an unfillable 96,000 so even though the club have looked into and started planning it a few times over the years, it's a no go in the current climate.
The atmosphere at Old Trafford is atrocious. Everybody knows it, but United will never change the pricing structure because that would be admitting failure. Plus it doesnt make sense business wise, so we're stuck with what we have.
The atmosphere at Old Trafford is atrocious. Everybody knows it, but United will never change the pricing structure because that would be admitting failure. Plus it doesnt make sense business wise, so we're stuck with what we have.
I've been to OT for non-Utd games, but occasions which still get the crowd vocal, and it's still pretty quiet. Notably the Team GB game during the Olympics. I was sat at the very front of the Stretford End and it was hard to hear people bar a general hubbub of noise.
It's clearly not just a Manchester Utd fan issue.
It's clearly not just a Manchester Utd fan issue.
Not just Utd. The Emirates, Stamford Bridge etc are absolutely dead 90% of the time and its because middle class people have essentially taken over what was once a working class environment. If I was to stand up and belt out a song at the Emirates, the trendy Islington set would just look at me with a mix of discomfort and annoyance. The stewards would also have a word and the roughly 50% of the fans who fancy a song would be vaguely sympathetic without really responding.
Even if you read Nick Hornby's book 'Fever Pitch' you can see the influence that people like him brought into football. Some good and some bad. He wasnt even from London which was fine but he dilutes the core of local people who really define the core of a club. These days Old Trafford is filled with tourists and people from all across the country so its really a collection of strangers rather than people with any real connection outside of the club they support. Never mind North London, a huge % of Emirates supporters are not even from London so how can a London derby mean anything to these people really? The fact that people started writing books on football culture ironically was a cause for the death of that culture. A bit like hipsters moving into a traditional pub in the East End and instantly ruining its previous culture. The commercial tickets are toxic as well but thats the way football has gone.
Football culture has almost become like cricket, because the people who used to go to cricket(or rugby etc) now go to watch the football every other week. Culturally they just dont do singing etc. Of course many other things contribute, like the influx of foreign players which has kind of robbed the fans of perceived connections with the players. Much easier to get excited over Ray Parlour scoring than it is over Tomas Rosicky so fans feel less connected etc.
Couple of things that would help: 1)terraces 2)lower ticket prices for local residents specifically 3)allow consumption of alcohol in the stands
Stadium design does not help one bit either. Football stands need to be built like this
Much much better for creating an atmosphere. So for example the new Chelsea stadium would potentially create a lot of noise(looks awesome too):
Even if you read Nick Hornby's book 'Fever Pitch' you can see the influence that people like him brought into football. Some good and some bad. He wasnt even from London which was fine but he dilutes the core of local people who really define the core of a club. These days Old Trafford is filled with tourists and people from all across the country so its really a collection of strangers rather than people with any real connection outside of the club they support. Never mind North London, a huge % of Emirates supporters are not even from London so how can a London derby mean anything to these people really? The fact that people started writing books on football culture ironically was a cause for the death of that culture. A bit like hipsters moving into a traditional pub in the East End and instantly ruining its previous culture. The commercial tickets are toxic as well but thats the way football has gone.
Football culture has almost become like cricket, because the people who used to go to cricket(or rugby etc) now go to watch the football every other week. Culturally they just dont do singing etc. Of course many other things contribute, like the influx of foreign players which has kind of robbed the fans of perceived connections with the players. Much easier to get excited over Ray Parlour scoring than it is over Tomas Rosicky so fans feel less connected etc.
Couple of things that would help: 1)terraces 2)lower ticket prices for local residents specifically 3)allow consumption of alcohol in the stands
Stadium design does not help one bit either. Football stands need to be built like this
Much much better for creating an atmosphere. So for example the new Chelsea stadium would potentially create a lot of noise(looks awesome too):
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Zürich
That stadium isn't on anymore
Someone else bought the power station.Original post by Tpx
That stadium isn't on anymore Someone else bought the power station.
Someone else bought the power station.well its a shame, because it looked amazing. Awesomely steep, single tier stands and the chimneys really would have added character as well. Hate the Emirates design, which is as boring as it gets. Lisbon literally have an identical design.
Guess it wasnt quite right for Chelsea anyway being south of the river and that. Stamford Bridge itself is quite a large area so you could just demolish and built a new place. Would need to use Wembley or somewhere during construction though. Not many other sites in West London really without moving out to Acton or somewhere, Fulham is definitely not tricky. Earl's court probably has somehwere I've missed though.
(edited 11 years ago)
I'm a st holder at Old Trafford and sit in the East stand (opposite stretford end) and as a local united fan I will admit that the atmosphere isn't always great. However the myth that all mancunians support city and united is a club with all their support from the rest of England, Ireland and the democratic republic of Congo, isn't true and manchester is a city who's majority of its support is for United which is backed by stats, the only reason this myth comes about is that there are a lot and I mean a lot of fans are out of towners.
What I will say is that when United play the so called weaker teams (no offence to other fans) the atmosphere isn't great because you do get a lot of fans who claim to be big United fans however find themselves at one or two games a year make no noise and tend to leave with 10 minutes to go and avoid traffic, hence why Old Trafford is always so empty towards the end of games. However when we play the likes of Liverpool, City and when we played Real Madrid you get a lot more Mancs in the ground because they can get tickets from their mates who have a spare season ticket and these fans are those who use to be regulars until the Glazers took over, and began charging extortionate prices (however this is a separate issue)
I have to say where I sit the majority of people are Mancs including my mates, and the atmosphere is ok with a large amount of people singing just also a lot who don't which make it seem ****. The argument for this sound problem being tackled is arising from when fans at part of the grounds say we were really loud today however people will say that they weren't because they couldn't hear them from other parts of the ground.
There are two separate issues here yes the ground doesn't help with the sound , however more loyal fans and less prawn sandwich brigade executive types of fans need to stay at home, if your a United fan and going to a game sing and for god sake don't complain when people stand because this really has pissed me off , not being able to stand is a joke , all caused by that bitch thatcher !
What I will say is that when United play the so called weaker teams (no offence to other fans) the atmosphere isn't great because you do get a lot of fans who claim to be big United fans however find themselves at one or two games a year make no noise and tend to leave with 10 minutes to go and avoid traffic, hence why Old Trafford is always so empty towards the end of games. However when we play the likes of Liverpool, City and when we played Real Madrid you get a lot more Mancs in the ground because they can get tickets from their mates who have a spare season ticket and these fans are those who use to be regulars until the Glazers took over, and began charging extortionate prices (however this is a separate issue)
I have to say where I sit the majority of people are Mancs including my mates, and the atmosphere is ok with a large amount of people singing just also a lot who don't which make it seem ****. The argument for this sound problem being tackled is arising from when fans at part of the grounds say we were really loud today however people will say that they weren't because they couldn't hear them from other parts of the ground.
There are two separate issues here yes the ground doesn't help with the sound , however more loyal fans and less prawn sandwich brigade executive types of fans need to stay at home, if your a United fan and going to a game sing and for god sake don't complain when people stand because this really has pissed me off , not being able to stand is a joke , all caused by that bitch thatcher !
Original post by Oliver1234
I'm a st holder at Old Trafford and sit in the East stand (opposite stretford end) and as a local united fan I will admit that the atmosphere isn't always great. However the myth that all mancunians support city and united is a club with all their support from the rest of England, Ireland and the democratic republic of Congo, isn't true and manchester is a city who's majority of its support is for United which is backed by stats, the only reason this myth comes about is that there are a lot and I mean a lot of fans are out of towners.
What I will say is that when United play the so called weaker teams (no offence to other fans) the atmosphere isn't great because you do get a lot of fans who claim to be big United fans however find themselves at one or two games a year make no noise and tend to leave with 10 minutes to go and avoid traffic, hence why Old Trafford is always so empty towards the end of games. However when we play the likes of Liverpool, City and when we played Real Madrid you get a lot more Mancs in the ground because they can get tickets from their mates who have a spare season ticket and these fans are those who use to be regulars until the Glazers took over, and began charging extortionate prices (however this is a separate issue)
I have to say where I sit the majority of people are Mancs including my mates, and the atmosphere is ok with a large amount of people singing just also a lot who don't which make it seem ****. The argument for this sound problem being tackled is arising from when fans at part of the grounds say we were really loud today however people will say that they weren't because they couldn't hear them from other parts of the ground.
There are two separate issues here yes the ground doesn't help with the sound , however more loyal fans and less prawn sandwich brigade executive types of fans need to stay at home, if your a United fan and going to a game sing and for god sake don't complain when people stand because this really has pissed me off , not being able to stand is a joke , all caused by that bitch thatcher !
What I will say is that when United play the so called weaker teams (no offence to other fans) the atmosphere isn't great because you do get a lot of fans who claim to be big United fans however find themselves at one or two games a year make no noise and tend to leave with 10 minutes to go and avoid traffic, hence why Old Trafford is always so empty towards the end of games. However when we play the likes of Liverpool, City and when we played Real Madrid you get a lot more Mancs in the ground because they can get tickets from their mates who have a spare season ticket and these fans are those who use to be regulars until the Glazers took over, and began charging extortionate prices (however this is a separate issue)
I have to say where I sit the majority of people are Mancs including my mates, and the atmosphere is ok with a large amount of people singing just also a lot who don't which make it seem ****. The argument for this sound problem being tackled is arising from when fans at part of the grounds say we were really loud today however people will say that they weren't because they couldn't hear them from other parts of the ground.
There are two separate issues here yes the ground doesn't help with the sound , however more loyal fans and less prawn sandwich brigade executive types of fans need to stay at home, if your a United fan and going to a game sing and for god sake don't complain when people stand because this really has pissed me off , not being able to stand is a joke , all caused by that bitch thatcher !
This is one of the best summaries of Man U fans I've ever read.
It really winds me up when people have a go at Man U fans purely based on their home support. What do you expect when locals are priced out? The local lads from Stretford can't afford to go week in week out, and what do you expect will happen? Their seats will just be taken by tourists. It really winds me up that the club only want daytrippers who will spend money in the megastore and the local lad can't afford to go.
There is nothing the locals can do, if they stand up and try to sing, they have their season tickets taken off them by the stewards. It winds me up and every football fan should feel the same.
The club know this.
I honestly feel for you, because to see your home ground turned into a tourist attraction must be truly heartbreaking.
It's just funny when you see new age football fans supporting Man U, only want to attend so they can show their pals on Twitter that they were at Old Trafford.
Welcome to football in 2013; Sit down. Shut Up.
Original post by Zürich
Not just Utd. The Emirates, Stamford Bridge etc are absolutely dead 90% of the time and its because middle class people have essentially taken over what was once a working class environment.
So Londoners basically.
Seems like Roy Keane's comments about away fans being vocal and those who eat prawn sandwiches at home games were spot on.
Original post by barnetlad
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-22046462
Surely a few more visiting fans or Mancunians instead of the usual glory seekers from south London or Dublin would be a simpler solution?
Surely a few more visiting fans or Mancunians instead of the usual glory seekers from south London or Dublin would be a simpler solution?
Doesn't matter where you are from, great clubs attract fans from all over the world.
I think the problem is tourism. You can be a real loud diehard that knows all the songs whether you are from Manchester or Malaysia. But I've been to games and sat by tourists on many occasions. I give the example of the 2010 home game when a guy sat next to me asked why van Nistelrooy wasn't starting. I had to kindly tell him he left four years ago.
Roy Keane can get lost to be honest. He was a great player for us but he seems to constantly try to undermine Sir Alex. True club legends back the club.
Original post by Eboracum
Doesn't matter where you are from, great clubs attract fans from all over the world.
I think the problem is tourism. You can be a real loud diehard that knows all the songs whether you are from Manchester or Malaysia. But I've been to games and sat by tourists on many occasions. I give the example of the 2010 home game when a guy sat next to me asked why van Nistelrooy wasn't starting. I had to kindly tell him he left four years ago.
Roy Keane can get lost to be honest. He was a great player for us but he seems to constantly try to undermine Sir Alex. True club legends back the club.
I think the problem is tourism. You can be a real loud diehard that knows all the songs whether you are from Manchester or Malaysia. But I've been to games and sat by tourists on many occasions. I give the example of the 2010 home game when a guy sat next to me asked why van Nistelrooy wasn't starting. I had to kindly tell him he left four years ago.
Roy Keane can get lost to be honest. He was a great player for us but he seems to constantly try to undermine Sir Alex. True club legends back the club.
That reminds me of a game I went to and a guy next to me asked 'What colour do Arsenal play in?'
We have a similar problem at Arsenal with Japanese and American tourists. The Emirates is just as quiet if not worse than Old Trafford. I don't think the design of the stadium can be blamed, as there have been occasions where our stadium has been electric (Barca 2010, Barca 2011, Milan 2012). It's more to do with the lackadaisical attitude of the people who go the games. Our away fans are some of the best in the country, so it's definitely something to do with the working-class fans being priced out of home games, which isn't a surprise if you look at the extortionate prices Arsenal charge for home games.
Original post by TheInvincibles14
That reminds me of a game I went to and a guy next to me asked 'What colour do Arsenal play in?'
We have a similar problem at Arsenal with Japanese and American tourists. The Emirates is just as quiet if not worse than Old Trafford. I don't think the design of the stadium can be blamed, as there have been occasions where our stadium has been electric (Barca 2010, Barca 2011, Milan 2012). It's more to do with the lackadaisical attitude of the people who go the games. Our away fans are some of the best in the country, so it's definitely something to do with the working-class fans being priced out of home games, which isn't a surprise if you look at the extortionate prices Arsenal charge for home games.
That reminds me of a game I went to and a guy next to me asked 'What colour do Arsenal play in?'
We have a similar problem at Arsenal with Japanese and American tourists. The Emirates is just as quiet if not worse than Old Trafford. I don't think the design of the stadium can be blamed, as there have been occasions where our stadium has been electric (Barca 2010, Barca 2011, Milan 2012). It's more to do with the lackadaisical attitude of the people who go the games. Our away fans are some of the best in the country, so it's definitely something to do with the working-class fans being priced out of home games, which isn't a surprise if you look at the extortionate prices Arsenal charge for home games.
Good man. Excellent post. It doesn't matter where you are from, that isn't the problem. The problem is attitude to the club, and the big clubs have die hards from all over the world, but they also have a hell of a lot of 'casual fans/tourists'.
Original post by Eboracum
Good man. Excellent post. It doesn't matter where you are from, that isn't the problem. The problem is attitude to the club, and the big clubs have die hards from all over the world, but they also have a hell of a lot of 'casual fans/tourists'.
I agree with you to an extent on this I don't really care whether our crowd has 75,000 Mancs in the ground , obviously this will never happen, but it's the lads who grow up in Salford,Moston,Trafford etc that when they go to games make the noise. The attitude that you say is the problem comes from the tourists. I don't get how anyone can watch a United City game who isn't from Manchester and then feel great amounts of passion in this derby, because this comes from growing up and in my case having a strong hate for the blues. If we're honest I can only see the atmosphere getting worse, and this is why people pushed for the singing section and is one of the argument why people go watch FC United !
Original post by Wilfred Little
It really winds me up when people have a go at Man U fans purely based on their home support. What do you expect when locals are priced out? The local lads from Stretford can't afford to go week in week out, and what do you expect will happen? Their seats will just be taken by tourists. It really winds me up that the club only want daytrippers who will spend money in the megastore and the local lad can't afford to go.
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