What's better - a 2.1 from Oxbridge or a first from Aston?

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Now you're being silly. I think Lexis is a trainee solicitor, or will be after finishing the LPC, but in any case to claim that you are somehow restricted to working at Iceland after graduating from a perfectly good university is a ridiculous statement. Your claim that Oxbridge is 'better' than other universities is probably correct but you are massively over-egging the pudding and making yourself look foolish in the process.

Your list of RG1 / RG2 is a total nonsense, on what basis is Warwick a sub-par university, for example?

I agree with this. It might make a difference in some sectors and organisations, but I doubt it does so to the extent that other unis are excluded.

They recruit the individual, not the university.

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Reply 301

Zenomorph

Original post by Eboracum

More snobbery I'm afraid Derrick. I'm at an RG, and most of the lectures I've been taught by in First Year are Oxbridge/LSE educated. One lady has a very highly rated PHD from LSE. There not mugs and have been taught by the best.

That doesn't mean they are any good, you don't really think the best Oxbridge academics aim for RG2 institutions o you ?

Try Oxbridge / Harvard/ Yale / Princeton - you forget that a good Oxbridge degree opens doors world wide.

The same most definitely cannot be said of say a 1st from Leeds.
And surely you are being a little hypocritical ? You dislike the snobbery from Oxbridge or RG1 yet you gladly push the term RG to differentiate your self from non-RG institutions.

Original post by Eboracum

Many people at these Russell's have the same A Level grades as Oxbridgers and are just as smart. Acceptance to Oxbridge doesn't define ones existence and condemn those not chosen to a lifetime of being below.

No, not if the overall mean was taken then non Oxb A level grades are far behind. This only stands to reason as there are limited number of A*A*A* to go around and most of them will end up at Oxb.

Original post by Eboracum

Oxford/Cambridge are better universities than those you've mentioned. But I'm arguing a First from one of them is just as good if not better than a 2:1 from Oxbridge. As they are still very good universities, they are not 'lousy' in any way.

There is simply no such thing as 'RG2'. It is heightened snobbery.

Again that depends - many would say agree that there are universities
' lousier ' than Oxb or the RG1

There's an RG2 in the sense that anyone might want it to be one ( just look at the tables and a clear demarcation is revealed between RG1 and 2 )

Original post by Eboracum

The reality is - 1) you haven't graduated from a London top 3 university. I am sure the London 3 do not teach their graduates to come on student forums slagging off other universities. 2) You are a member of the Oxford 2012 applicants page.

I'd get yourself into a Russell, work really hard, and re-evaluate if I was you. Anyone can come on here and say anything. I could say I have a First from Harvard and I was taught by Niall Ferguson and have a PHD from Yale. But what would be the point? You are only lying to yourself you know?

O yeah right and you're a mind reader are you, in any case if I was starting over again with my AAA I'd be damned if I were to end up in an RG 2.

Whereas the whole problem with the RG2 is that they are trying to forcefeed the fake notion that they are somehow just a ' tad ' worse than Oxb down the throats of innocents 18 yo's - that I object to.

And that is why I created the RG2.

Reply 302

Zenomorph

Original post by Forum User

Now you're being silly. I think Lexis is a trainee solicitor, or will be after finishing the LPC, but in any case to claim that you are somehow restricted to working at Iceland after graduating from a perfectly good university is a ridiculous statement. Your claim that Oxbridge is 'better' than other universities is probably correct but you are massively over-egging the pudding and making yourself look foolish in the process. Notice how nobody who has actually attended either Oxford or Cambridge is making such outrageous claims. You are (according to your other posts) at Sussex.

Your list of RG1 / RG2 is a total nonsense, on what basis is Warwick a sub-par university, for example?

FACT: no non RG1 university is a target for MS. end of, lexis or not whatever the hell that is.

What outrageous claims ?

Your fearful overeaction is a total nonsense, and sounds like someone who realises that his overinflated opinion of his university has been dramatically destroyed.

I did say ' cursory ' , do you not understand what that means ?

In that light where Warwick stand is moot to me, so you place it where you want.

Reply 303

Forum User

Original post by Zenomorph

Your fearful overeaction is a total nonsense, and sounds like someone who realises that his overinflated opinion of his university has been dramatically destroyed.

I did Maths at Cambridge. I am now at BPP doing a part-time law degree. I assure you that I don't have an overinflated opinion of either university I have attended.

The only one with a 'fearful overreaction' in this thread is you, for a reason which escapes me since you are not at any of Oxbridge, 'RG1', or 'RG2'.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 304

Zenomorph

Original post by Forum User

I graduated from RG1 and now doing a short course at Sussex, is that ok for you ?

So did you graduate Cantab or not ? and if so, why are you arguing with me ? Surely we are in agreement

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 305

LexiswasmyNexis

Original post by Zenomorph

I graduated from RG1 and now doing a short course at Sussex, is that ok for you ?

So did you graduate Cantab or not ? and if so, why are you arguing with me ? Surely we are in agreement

I sense you have difficulty with comprehension.

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Reply 306

-Liberty

Original post by Future_Dr

IMO A 2.1 at Oxbridge shows that the candidate has worked very hard in their previously academic life to have gained a place there.

What about people who got equal grades but didn't apply for Oxbridge? I'm one of them. Got the same grades as expected for the same degree at oxbridge but got no support or info about it. In fact during my work experience insight I met a girl doing the same course at Cambridge but with lower grades. I ended up going to an average Russell group uni.

Reply 307

Forum User

Original post by Zenomorph

I graduated from RG1 and now doing a short course at Sussex, is that ok for you ?

So if did you graduated Cantab or not ? and if so, why are you arguing with me ? Surely we are in agreement

Yes, I graduated in 2000.

I agree that Oxbridge is better than other universities (at least for the vast majority of courses). I do not agree that doors are necessarily closed to you if you don't attend a top university (by which I mean, one that you consider to be RG1+). One of the most recent tenants at Fountain Court (top commercial Barristers chambers and thus one of the most competitive jobs there is) did his undergraduate degree at Hull.

If you were trying to make a point only about Investment Banking then I don't know enough to comment, but the fact that you contrasted working at Morgan Stanley with working at Iceland seemed to suggest that you were making a point about all competitive jobs.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 308

Zenomorph

Original post by LexiswasmyNexis

I sense you have difficulty with comprehension.

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Everyone knows law is an extremely prestige conscious profession, why would someone with Maths @ cantab do law @ BPP ? That'd be like shooting yourself after you win the lottery.

No, no I think this guy sounds more like an RG 2 person to me

Either that or he did not very well @ Cantab. Also just because one graduates from Cantab doesn't mean he is the cat's whiskers - there always bad eggs, many of them end up in RG2 places.

Believe me I've had the misfortune of attending their ' lectures'

Reply 309

Zenomorph

Original post by Nichrome

Zenomorph however is just a troll who is spouting nonsense and should be ignored.

Do you always give so much attention to people who you'd like to ignore ?

Sounds like you are the troller now.

Reply 310

Forum User

Original post by Zenomorph

Either that or he did not very well @ Cantab.

You're right, I got a 2:2 after failing, due to personal reasons, to hand in a computer project worth 20% of the final grade. I'm not sure how that has anything to do with the current discussion, though, since we were talking about the prospects of non-Oxbridge degrees.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 311

LexiswasmyNexis

Original post by Zenomorph

I will let Forum User answer the assumptions you make here; I suspect you are very wrong though.

BPP is a perfectly good place to do PT legal studies as a career changer. If FU is doing a GDL, BPTC or LPC, then they wouldn't realistically think too hard about going anywhere else.

And I am the 'lexis' FU referred to earlier.

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Reply 312

shamika

Original post by Zenomorph

What on earth are you talking about?

To become a solicitor you need to do an LPC, which is a vocational course, not academic. BPP (and places like Kaplan, College of Law etc.) are the primary providers of such courses. BPP do all sorts of professional exams - for instance, they're the only provider of Actuarial education in the UK.

If it's not the LPC then it might be a law conversion course - which again has to have a vocational focus as its shorter than a normal law degree. Why on earth would you assume he didn't do well?

I have friends (from maths) who have gone on to become IP lawyers and are earning a heck of a lot more than me - incidentally, they got a first from Imperial their undergrad, a first from Oxford doing their finance masters and then did their LPC at BPP. Not once during her course did she moan about BPP's prestige - in fact, she was really impressed with BPP, as am I generally for their Actuarial tuition.

Honestly, I've met very very few people from Oxbridge / Imperial / (insert good university here) who bang on about prestige, it really does seem to be those with some sort of chip on their shoulder :confused:

EDIT: Didn't see his later post, but still don't think that disproves my point :smile:

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 313

Zenomorph

Original post by Forum User

Yes granted there will always be exceptions but how are we to know if this chap was not also a former All Black or played for England in union.

I noticed that usually these cases involve something unique about the individual if he did not attend an RG1.

My point about Iceland and MS is that other things being equal, very few non RG1 graduates will have succeeded in getting into the Grad scheme. of course there are exceptions as said before due to personal achievements (but these would have to be very high - like playing for England rugby team and so on).

Whereas the MTP @ Iceland would be open to all who attain a 2.1 and above.

So yes, being at a top 30 uni will not close doors for you but at the top end of professions like IB, accountancy and law ( I would suppose) you would be at a disadvantage compared to one of the better places.

Reply 314

Zenomorph

Original post by shamika

I think FU is a trainee barrister, don't they get taught directly by the barrister's association ?

Reply 315

Forum User

Original post by LexiswasmyNexis

I will let Forum User answer the assumptions you make here; I suspect you are very wrong though.

Original post by Zenomorph

Original post by shamika

What on earth are you talking about?

I'm not quite sure how this thread suddenly became 'about me'. I don't think that my personal situation has anything to do with any of the points I made in the thread.

I only mentioned that I went to Cambridge in response to Zeno's claim that I had a 'fearfully overinflated opinion of my university'. I am doing a part-time evening LL.B. at BPP, not a professional qualification. I'm not a 'trainee barrister', Zeno (they're called 'pupil barristers' technically). Prospective barristers first have to do a professional qualification called the BPTC (which is one of the courses that Shamika mentioned that BPP offer). I am intending to become a barrister, if you've been checking my post history for more info on my background then the 'mini-pupillages' that you can see me post about are the equivalent of work experience (think internship at IB but lasting only a few days). Happy to answer any other questions about myself via PM but I don't see that they have anything to do with the topic of the thread.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 316

LexiswasmyNexis

Original post by Zenomorph

I think FU is a trainee barrister, don't they get taught directly by the barrister's association ?

No. It isn't my side of the profession, so I'm not as au fait with the process as others, but they still need a qualifying law degree or GDL followed by the BPTC (also at uni) and then pupillage.

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Reply 317

Fullofsurprises

The thread shows the usual difficulty of broad-brush 'university grade comparison' - unless you have attended courses at more than one university at the same level, it is very difficult to gain reliable points with which to gauge the differences that are more than informed guesswork. Beyond that, we have to rely on things like ranking tables, which use criteria that don't always directly relate to the undergrad experience (academic citations by professors or research ratings for example) or are trivial (which college has more grass or better dining facilities). We can go on what employers say to some extent, but they have their own biases and prejudices and we haven't quantified what "better" (in the thread title) means exactly.

To some extent, isn't course rep a semi-mystical concept? Some people assume Oxbridge is way, way above its rivals, others strongly assert that UCL, ICL, Warwick, etc, are close or on a par for particular courses. There are attempts at surveys to quantify these, but they all suffer from flaws. University course rep seems to build up slowly and is hard to shift. I think most members of the public would believe Oxbridge to be loads better than its rivals, but that view isn't necessarily shared in academia or by students at the rivals - or by students in Oxford and Cambridge. I don't know many people who genuinely believe UCL or Imperial or Warwick to be in the foothills and Oxford (and that other place in the Fens) to be at the top of the mountain. It's more like a range with lofty peaks, a few of which are a bit higher than the others.

Reply 318

shamika

Original post by Forum User

Agreed - my point was that going from Cambridge to BPP was a perfectly reasonable thing to do

Reply 319

username854791

Original post by -Liberty

I mean't that generally. I mean there are people who look at other things other than prestige and rep. But on average those who do end up in Oxbridge generally do have better grades. If you look into Aston, you will get mixture of grades, from average to very high grades which I guess you have.