What's better - a 2.1 from Oxbridge or a first from Aston?
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Original post by Fullofsurprises
I would say that selection at many top companies is extremely cut throat now and they are really looking for genuine ability and fit to their roles, not just the alma mater of your degree, no matter how glossy.
Indeed. This is the crux. You get the job for who you are, not what university you went to.
Original post by Zenomorph
Sussex is on the same level as the above which means it is not very good - and I have sampled lectures at Bham and Soton too - they are dire !
The course is sponsored by my employers of which I got into because I got a 2.1 from LSE, it's really none of your business especially since you haven't the guts to say which university you attend if any.
Go on .... confirm our prejudices and say Manchester
Sussex is on the same level as the above which means it is not very good - and I have sampled lectures at Bham and Soton too - they are dire !
The course is sponsored by my employers of which I got into because I got a 2.1 from LSE, it's really none of your business especially since you haven't the guts to say which university you attend if any.
Go on .... confirm our prejudices and say Manchester
The University of Sussex (which you are currently at doing an undergraduate degree) is a very good university. It has Study Abroad links with Ivy League institutions. That means, it's pretty good.
So you graduated with a 2:1 from LSE in 2000, and now you are doing a 'short course' at Sussex. But you also applied to Oxford in 2012. I sense some serious trolling.
I'd be interested to hear, what have you been doing since your LSE degree, working in McDonalds? Surely your banking career is underway by now?
Original post by Zenomorph
That there are only a limited number of teaching positions at Oxford in itself tells you that only the best get jobs there, same with the Harvards and Princetons of the world.
Logic then dictates that Teaching at a Russell is a second rate choice. In fact some of them can't even speak English to the requisite standards.
That there are only a limited number of teaching positions at Oxford in itself tells you that only the best get jobs there, same with the Harvards and Princetons of the world.
Logic then dictates that Teaching at a Russell is a second rate choice. In fact some of them can't even speak English to the requisite standards.
It doesn't mean though that those not accepted at Oxbridge/Ivy League are bad. It means they are really really good, just not as good.
You put it into perspective don't you. UK - Second best in the world for higher education. 116 Universities in the UK. Therefore, any top 30 UK university is by world university standards, very very good.
Original post by Zenomorph
IB target universities are fact and the likes of Leeds are NOT a target - get over it.
IB target universities are fact and the likes of Leeds are NOT a target - get over it.
'get over it'. Not really something I'd expect an LSE graduate to try and win an argument with. Someone with a First or a 2:1 from Leeds has a good chance of a career in whatever this wish IF they are a good candidate.
Original post by Zenomorph
My opinion is just that; no one is forcing you to listen to me but since it bothers you so much, I guess the truth must hurt ?
I see myself as Professor Snape, attending to Trolls in the Dungeon.
Original post by dbkey
But the student who achieves a 1st from a non-Oxbridge uni CANNOT be deemed less bright than a 2:1 from Oxbridge, simply because the maximum one can achieve is a 1st!
But the student who achieves a 1st from a non-Oxbridge uni CANNOT be deemed less bright than a 2:1 from Oxbridge, simply because the maximum one can achieve is a 1st!
You've just landed the golfball in the managers office with this one. This is the stone wall key point.
Original post by Drederick Tatum
Again, this is does not correspond to what I have said. Most of what you say here I agree with but I think it's unfair to criticise me for snobbery when I'm just trying to evaluate the relative merits of two courses and not the individuals doing them.
Original post by Drederick Tatum
Also, why am I suddenly called 'Derrick'? My name's clearly Drederick.
Or Mr Tatum.
Or Mr Tatum.
You seem like a most reasonably poster. And I will get your name right this time Drederick (not Derrick).
Original post by DavidCrow
Degrees at Oxford and York are just imo not the same. The existence of the weekly (sometimes two-weekly) tutorial at Oxford with its strict essay deadline is the key discriminator between the two. It gives you that independence and clarity of thought that other universities just can't do, teaches you how to time manage to the extreme and makes you so much more employable.
Degrees at Oxford and York are just imo not the same. The existence of the weekly (sometimes two-weekly) tutorial at Oxford with its strict essay deadline is the key discriminator between the two. It gives you that independence and clarity of thought that other universities just can't do, teaches you how to time manage to the extreme and makes you so much more employable.
I'm at The University of York doing Politics. I know people with A*AA who got 2:2's (end of First Year). So it's far from easy. I accept the teaching standard is different, but it's certainly not much harder and I wouldn't agree it makes you 'so much more employable'
Original post by Eboracum
x
By large I agree with what you say. However, your view is slightly starry eyed.. Here are five firms where I can say with confidence that a first from Leeds would not be as competitive as a 2:1 from Oxford ceteris paribus.
Goldman Sachs, Mckinsey, Lazard, Oliver Wyman and Bain & Co.
Original post by LoseSmallWinBig
By large I agree with what you say. However, your view is slightly starry eyed.. Here are five firms where I can say with confidence that a first from Leeds would not be as competitive as a 2:1 from Oxford ceteris paribus.
Goldman Sachs, Mckinsey, Lazard, Oliver Wyman and Bain & Co.
Goldman Sachs, Mckinsey, Lazard, Oliver Wyman and Bain & Co.
Add to that the BBC, MI5, Civil Service, newspapers such as Torygraph, Guardian, Times, legal firms.
The last is even worse whereby it semms you must fit at least one of these categories:
Public school educated
Oxbridge educated
White
Original post by speakerfone
legal firms.
The last is even worse whereby it semms you must fit at least one of these categories:
Public school educated
Oxbridge educated
White
The last is even worse whereby it semms you must fit at least one of these categories:
Public school educated
Oxbridge educated
White
Total rubbish.
Original post by speakerfone
Add to that the BBC, MI5, Civil Service, newspapers such as Torygraph, Guardian, Times, legal firms.
The last is even worse whereby it semms you must fit at least one of these categories:
Public school educated
Oxbridge educated
White
The last is even worse whereby it semms you must fit at least one of these categories:
Public school educated
Oxbridge educated
White
Errrrr. Add none of those... Particularly the legal one. I am none of those and it never held me back.
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(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Eboracum
You've just landed the golfball in the managers office with this one. This is the stone wall key point.
You've just landed the golfball in the managers office with this one. This is the stone wall key point.
Here is the point you refer to:
But the student who achieves a 1st from a non-Oxbridge uni CANNOT be deemed less bright than a 2:1 from Oxbridge, simply because the maximum one can achieve is a 1st!
This is, of course, true - but completely irrelevant. Stop talking about the people studying at the institutions and focus on the degrees.
If some posters stopped taking criticisms of the university that they attend(ed) personally, we might actually be able to have a proper discussion.
Original post by Eboracum
Indeed. This is the crux. You get the job for who you are, not what university you went to.
The University of Sussex (which you are currently at doing an undergraduate degree) is a very good university.
The University of Sussex (which you are currently at doing an undergraduate degree) is a very good university.
Wrong - University counts
Also - I am not doing a degree at Sussex, it's too crap for me.
Original post by Eboracum
It has Study Abroad links with Ivy League institutions. That means, it's pretty good.
It has Study Abroad links with Ivy League institutions. That means, it's pretty good.
Nonsense it has no such links
Original post by Eboracum
So you graduated with a 2:1 from LSE in 2000, and now you are doing a 'short course' at Sussex. But you also applied to Oxford in 2012. I sense some serious trolling.
So you graduated with a 2:1 from LSE in 2000, and now you are doing a 'short course' at Sussex. But you also applied to Oxford in 2012. I sense some serious trolling.
Wrong again - never applied to Oxbridge
Tell you what you stick to your lousy RG2 uni and leave the factual conversations to the rest of us ok ?
Original post by Eboracum
I'd be interested to hear, what have you been doing since your LSE degree, working in McDonalds? Surely your banking career is underway by now?
I'd be interested to hear, what have you been doing since your LSE degree, working in McDonalds? Surely your banking career is underway by now?
Yeah right as if I have any inclination to explain to you what I am doing - you on the other ask a lot but have yet to even reveal where they did their degree
Is it Manchester ? Ashamed ? wouldn't surprise me one bit.
Original post by Eboracum
It doesn't mean though that those not accepted at Oxbridge/Ivy League are bad. It means they are really really good, just not as good.
It doesn't mean though that those not accepted at Oxbridge/Ivy League are bad. It means they are really really good, just not as good.
That's a silly statement; spurious and meaningless too since you could apply that to anything.
Original post by Eboracum
You put it into perspective don't you. UK - Second best in the world for higher education. 116 Universities in the UK. Therefore, any top 30 UK university is by world university standards, very very good.
'get over it'. Not really something I'd expect an LSE graduate to try and win an argument with. Someone with a First or a 2:1 from Leeds has a good chance of a career in whatever this wish IF they are a good candidate.
You put it into perspective don't you. UK - Second best in the world for higher education. 116 Universities in the UK. Therefore, any top 30 UK university is by world university standards, very very good.
'get over it'. Not really something I'd expect an LSE graduate to try and win an argument with. Someone with a First or a 2:1 from Leeds has a good chance of a career in whatever this wish IF they are a good candidate.
Not at all - very simple look at the THES (though not perfect by any means) and you will find where any uni lies relative to the world
A degree from Leeds no matter what the class will stand little chance of getting into IB so no, a Leeds graduate will not have the same chance as an LSE/Imperial/UCL/ST Andrews and a host of other universities.
Original post by Eboracum
I see myself as Professor Snape, attending to Trolls in the Dungeon.
I see myself as Professor Snape, attending to Trolls in the Dungeon.
Are You sure you are not Professor Troll
Original post by Zenomorph
Wrong - University counts
Also - I am not doing a degree at Sussex, it's too crap for me.
Nonsense it has no such links
Wrong again - never applied to Oxbridge
Tell you what you stick to your lousy RG2 uni and leave the factual conversations to the rest of us ok ?
Yeah right as if I have any inclination to explain to you what I am doing - you on the other ask a lot but have yet to even reveal where they did their degree
Is it Manchester ? Ashamed ? wouldn't surprise me one bit.
That's a silly statement; spurious and meaningless too since you could apply that to anything.
Not at all - very simple look at the THES (though not perfect by any means) and you will find where any uni lies relative to the world
A degree from Leeds no matter what the class will stand little chance of getting into IB so no, a Leeds graduate will not have the same chance as an LSE/Imperial/UCL/ST Andrews and a host of other universities.
Are You sure you are not Professor Troll
Also - I am not doing a degree at Sussex, it's too crap for me.
Nonsense it has no such links
Wrong again - never applied to Oxbridge
Tell you what you stick to your lousy RG2 uni and leave the factual conversations to the rest of us ok ?
Yeah right as if I have any inclination to explain to you what I am doing - you on the other ask a lot but have yet to even reveal where they did their degree
Is it Manchester ? Ashamed ? wouldn't surprise me one bit.
That's a silly statement; spurious and meaningless too since you could apply that to anything.
Not at all - very simple look at the THES (though not perfect by any means) and you will find where any uni lies relative to the world
A degree from Leeds no matter what the class will stand little chance of getting into IB so no, a Leeds graduate will not have the same chance as an LSE/Imperial/UCL/ST Andrews and a host of other universities.
Are You sure you are not Professor Troll
So what have you been doing since 2000? In the interest of full disclosure and so that we can judge the context from which you rant, I think you should give us an idea
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Original post by LexiswasmyNexis
So what have you been doing since 2000? In the interest of full disclosure and so that we can judge the context from which you rant, I think you should give us an idea .
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So what have you been doing since 2000?
Original post by Zenomorph
So what have you been doing since 2000?
In 2000 I was 12. So take a wild guess.... I've told you where I graduated from (your RG2), and you know what I am doing now and what I have been doing for the last couple of years.
Answer the question.
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(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Zenomorph
So what have you been doing since 2000?
Quite frankly, if you only got a 2:1 from LSE you have no right to be talking down on anyone...
Original post by illusionz
Quite frankly, if you only got a 2:1 from LSE you have no right to be talking down on anyone...
I wouldn't say talking down but I most definitely have a right to comment on the Leeds and Manchesters of this world.
Original post by LexiswasmyNexis
In 2000 I was 12. So take a wild guess.... I've told you where I graduated from (your RG2), and you know what I am doing now and what I have been doing for the last couple of years.
Answer the question.
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Answer the question.
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No you didn't you only said an RG2 , which one ?
Original post by LoseSmallWinBig
By large I agree with what you say. However, your view is slightly starry eyed.. Here are five firms where I can say with confidence that a first from Leeds would not be as competitive as a 2:1 from Oxford ceteris paribus.
Goldman Sachs, Mckinsey, Lazard, Oliver Wyman and Bain & Co.
Goldman Sachs, Mckinsey, Lazard, Oliver Wyman and Bain & Co.
But the individual candidate may be just as competitive.
Original post by speakerfone
Add to that the BBC, MI5, Civil Service, newspapers such as Torygraph, Guardian, Times, legal firms.
The last is even worse whereby it semms you must fit at least one of these categories:
Public school educated
Oxbridge educated
White
The last is even worse whereby it semms you must fit at least one of these categories:
Public school educated
Oxbridge educated
White
This is factually incorrect. I know people who work for those organisations or in those professions who are none of the above.
Original post by Drederick Tatum
This is, of course, true - but completely irrelevant. Stop talking about the people studying at the institutions and focus on the degrees.
If some posters stopped taking criticisms of the university that they attend(ed) personally, we might actually be able to have a proper discussion.
This is, of course, true - but completely irrelevant. Stop talking about the people studying at the institutions and focus on the degrees.
If some posters stopped taking criticisms of the university that they attend(ed) personally, we might actually be able to have a proper discussion.
But the debate should be about individuals shouldn't it Drederick?. Otherwise why have interviews? Just employ the people from Oxford and give no one else a shot? You're living in cuckoo land if you believe your Oxford degree will get you a job alone.
Original post by Zenomorph
Nonsense it has no such links
Nonsense it has no such links
Here is a link to The University of Sussex's North American Study Abroad partners. In which you will find Penn (and other really good universities). So that's one 'fact' you failed to mention.
http://www.sussex.ac.uk/study/sabroad/forsussexstudents/destinations/northamerica
Original post by Zenomorph
Tell you what you stick to your lousy RG2 uni and leave the factual conversations to the rest of us ok ?
Tell you what you stick to your lousy RG2 uni and leave the factual conversations to the rest of us ok ?
We've got Penn, Columbia, and Berkeley. And Sydney, Singapore and others. Oh, and SciencesPo. World class universities sending their students to our uni, because, we're world class as well. Not so lousy now punk?
Original post by Zenomorph
Yeah right as if I have any inclination to explain to you what I am doing - you on the other ask a lot but have yet to even reveal where they did their degree
If you've got a 2:1 from LSE I'd expect you to be pretty smart. Yet your comments could be attributed to a trained monkey. I would suggest that you haven't studied at LSE, or that you have and you have below 2:1 honours, or more likely you applied to Oxford in 2012, didn't get in and are now at Sussex (no shame in that son).
Original post by Zenomorph
Is it Manchester ? Ashamed ? wouldn't surprise me one bit.
Is it Manchester ? Ashamed ? wouldn't surprise me one bit.
Seeing as you love league tables, Manchester is 49th in the World. So no one is ashamed to go there by any means.
Original post by Zenomorph
Not at all - very simple look at the THES (though not perfect by any means) and you will find where any uni lies relative to the world
A degree from Leeds no matter what the class will stand little chance of getting into IB so no, a Leeds graduate will not have the same chance as an LSE/Imperial/UCL/ST Andrews and a host of other universities.
Not at all - very simple look at the THES (though not perfect by any means) and you will find where any uni lies relative to the world
A degree from Leeds no matter what the class will stand little chance of getting into IB so no, a Leeds graduate will not have the same chance as an LSE/Imperial/UCL/ST Andrews and a host of other universities.
Again what does and doesn't make a league table perfect? I've argued previously against them. But who decides, you? Sat in your uni room at Sussex? What gives you the legitimacy to decide and to rank these universities? But seeing as we are picking arbitrary rankings out of the sky I'd argue Leeds is just as good as St Andrews and Exeter. I'd argue Manchester is better than them both, although in reality they are all roughly the same.
Original post by Zenomorph
Are You sure you are not Professor Troll
Are You sure you are not Professor Troll
I congratulate you on your role in Harry Potter.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Zenomorph
No you didn't you only said an RG2 , which one ?
Sheffield. Your turn.
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Original post by LexiswasmyNexis
You know where I graduated from ! Troller.
Commiserations on Sheffield by the way
Original post by Zenomorph
You know where I graduated from ! Troller.
Commiserations on Sheffield by the way
Commiserations on Sheffield by the way
Learn to read please. I asked you what you have been doing since your graduation. You can continue to evade straightforward queries, but I will assume you are either a complete loser at 30 something or a silly kid playing the big man...
I welcome your commiserations. I have a good degree and it netted me a good career. I'm not arsed what you think.
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Original post by Eboracum
But the individual candidate may be just as competitive.
This is factually incorrect. I know people who work for those organisations or in those professions who are none of the above.
This is factually incorrect. I know people who work for those organisations or in those professions who are none of the above.
NO not if he wants to get into IB he isn't.
Original post by Eboracum
Here is a link to The University of Sussex's North American Study Abroad partners. In which you will find Penn (and other really good universities). So that's one 'fact' you failed to mention.
http://www.sussex.ac.uk/study/sabroad/forsussexstudents/destinations/northamerica
We've got Penn, Columbia, and Berkeley. And Sydney, Singapore and others. Oh, and SciencesPo. World class universities sending their students to our uni, because, we're world class as well. Not so lousy now punk?
Here is a link to The University of Sussex's North American Study Abroad partners. In which you will find Penn (and other really good universities). So that's one 'fact' you failed to mention.
http://www.sussex.ac.uk/study/sabroad/forsussexstudents/destinations/northamerica
We've got Penn, Columbia, and Berkeley. And Sydney, Singapore and others. Oh, and SciencesPo. World class universities sending their students to our uni, because, we're world class as well. Not so lousy now punk?
So what they can link all they want won't make them world class that's for sure.
Original post by Eboracum
If you've got a 2:1 from LSE I'd expect you to be pretty smart. Yet your comments could be attributed to a trained monkey. I would suggest that you haven't studied at LSE, or that you have and you have below 2:1 honours, or more likely you applied to Oxford in 2012, didn't get in and are now at Sussex (no shame in that son).
If you've got a 2:1 from LSE I'd expect you to be pretty smart. Yet your comments could be attributed to a trained monkey. I would suggest that you haven't studied at LSE, or that you have and you have below 2:1 honours, or more likely you applied to Oxford in 2012, didn't get in and are now at Sussex (no shame in that son).
Well that doesn't say much for an RG2 graduate since a trained monkey is better them !
You can suggest and believe what you want I couldn't care less but I sense more than a tinge of jealousy that I went to LSE and you didn't but that's tough I guess.
You made the wrong choice and now you feel bitter about it evidenced by the weak and rather pathetic tirade you launched since you discovered you were in the RG2.
You shouldn't have felt such a big chip on the shoulder just because you are from the North - you should have just gone for it and put LSE as your 1st choice but you didn't have the guts. No one can change that now
Applied to Oxford in 2012 ? No I did not, you'll have to offer some proof if you keep insisting that I did when I didn't.
Original post by Eboracum
Seeing as you love league tables, Manchester is 49th in the World. So no one is ashamed to go there by any means.
Seeing as you love league tables, Manchester is 49th in the World. So no one is ashamed to go there by any means.
But outside the top 30 in all UK tables - pretty bad considering how it views itself.
Original post by Eboracum
Again what does and doesn't make a league table perfect? I've argued previously against them. But who decides, you? Sat in your uni room at Sussex? What gives you the legitimacy to decide and to rank these universities? But seeing as we are picking arbitrary rankings out of the sky I'd argue Leeds is just as good as St Andrews and Exeter. I'd argue Manchester is better than them both, although in reality they are all roughly the same.
Again what does and doesn't make a league table perfect? I've argued previously against them. But who decides, you? Sat in your uni room at Sussex? What gives you the legitimacy to decide and to rank these universities? But seeing as we are picking arbitrary rankings out of the sky I'd argue Leeds is just as good as St Andrews and Exeter. I'd argue Manchester is better than them both, although in reality they are all roughly the same.
It's not me ranking them you fantasist. Newspaper rankings have been with us for 20 years so they are not picks ' out of the sky '. Only a fool would not know that.
So no, Manc and Leeds are behind St Andies and Exeter and way behind LSE of course.
You talk big but where do you go ? ashamed of it ?
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by LexiswasmyNexis
Learn to read please. I asked you what you have been doing since your graduation. You can continue to evade straightforward queries, but I will assume you are either a complete loser at 30 something or a silly kid playing the big man...
I welcome your commiserations. I have a good degree and it netted me a good career. I'm not arsed what you think.
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I welcome your commiserations. I have a good degree and it netted me a good career. I'm not arsed what you think.
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Good career ? Are you with the Sheffield train museum doing night shifts ?? LOL
Original post by Zenomorph
Good career ? Are you with the Sheffield train museum doing night shifts ?? LOL
For Goodness sake. We discussed what I am doing now EARLIER IN THIS THREAD.
You claim to have graduated from LSE in 2000 where you got a 2:1, yes? And now you are at Sussex.
What about the years in between? Were you employed?
To be honest, based on your behaviour on this thread, I doubt the story you have put across here. Surely no LSE grad could be so narrow minded and obtuse.
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(edited 11 years ago)
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