I'm at parties about Margaret Thatcher's death

Thatcher alone cannot be blamed for the collapse of the mining industry Scargill and the unions most definitely played their part. Our mines were dead on their feet, you can't escape the fact that it was cheaper to ship coal in from Australia than to mine it ourselves. I do however believe that the situation could have been dealt with more humanity - ex miners and their families should have been helped back into the job market, for example. And she also did help the country, just look up her stance in Europe she protected the country's interests. Just like any other leader there were good and bad points about her premiership. The biggest problem I have about judging her reign objectively is where people begin judging her as a leader and stop judging her as a woman.

Exactly this.

Some people from former mining villages were on the media this morning talking about how little help there had been for them after the collapse of the industry.

As far as we can tell from all accounts, Scargill seems to have been a very poor leader who was ideologically obsessed and made loads of fundamental tactical errors and who did not seem as a person to be overly concerned with the genuine need of his members to have replacement jobs and new industries.

The Thatcher govt nonetheless behaved in a ruthless, scheming manner towards them, lying and dividing. They broke the traditional constitution of Britain by organising a secret national police force and devoting it to a political end. They lied to non-striking miners about the prospects for their jobs. One said on Radio 4 earlier that he felt betrayed and tricked. He was a key organiser in the working miners of Nottinghamshire that Thatcher claimed at the time she was acting on behalf of.

Britain had delayed a lot of very necessary industrial change and progress and there was a great deal wrong with the country, which her government did a great deal to start fixing, but some of it was done very harshly and with extreme cynicism and (sometimes) greedy motives.

Reply 141

myah_94

12

Original post by chappers-94

She screwed over a hell of a lot of northern english families.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Ohhh:/ ..thnx for replying anyway

Reply 142

paddyman4

14

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

Oi! Labour indeed.

Frankly it's not a bad thing to be celebrating, given the damage and hurt she caused to so many. This is that moment of relief when we realise that the person who caused so much **** has finally faced retribution.

Posted from TSR Mobile

You're an awful person.

Reply 143

Scott006

I think these parties are in really bad taste. And as I expected many of the people attending them don't really seem to know what they are talking about. I think it's somehow become part of popular culture, almost socially acceptable for some people to treat and talk about Margaret Thatcher in a way that they would not be allowed to talk about anyone else, bar possibly Hitler, and this idea of suspending reality in order to exude hatred on people is incredibly disturbing actually. She was no tyrant, she was elected three times. I also note the people at these parties don't seem to be in particular abstract poverty as their sentiments would have you believe, a heavy dose of reality and perspective is perhaps what's needed.

Reply 144

Stiff Little Fingers

21

Original post by paddyman4

You're an awful person.

I really don't care - I make no apologies for enjoying this, I consider her nothing short of evil - training massacres, putting families through hell to protect the police, leaving entire communities to rot - that's what she was responsible for - She destroyed the country, and anyone who has any sorrow at her passing shows that they have the same contempt for humanity that she did. The only sad thing is that while the head is dead, the body (Thatcherism) lives on.

When her political legacy is as dead as she is then I'll be partying so much it'll make Charlie Sheen look restrained.

Reply 145

gateshipone

10

Original post by Fullofsurprises

As far as we can tell from all accounts, Scargill seems to have been a very poor leader who was ideologically obsessed and made loads of fundamental tactical errors and who did not seem as a person to be overly concerned with the genuine need of his members to have replacement jobs and new industries.

So he was basically like every union leader around now!

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

She destroyed the country.

Bit dramatic don't you think? The country is still here. If getting rid of a self destructing industry is your definition of destroying the country then you need your head examined.

Reply 146

Fullofsurprises

20

Original post by gateshipone

So he was basically like every union leader around now!

Well, apart from Bob Crow. :colondollar:

In truth, the effective power of union leaders has always been exaggerated by people on the right for political motives. Unions are very hard to motivate and inspire, people are frequently very reluctant to go up against their employers and working class people are easily divided, confused and thwarted in their efforts to improve their living standards via work. Divide and rule has long held sway. Unions are generally short of money, embattled and not helped by some corrupt or lazy union leaderships. Quite often, the most important union actions have been from the grassroots, when members had simply had enough and took action despite their leaderships.

Reply 147

Stiff Little Fingers

21

Original post by gateshipone

Bit dramatic don't you think? The country is still here. If getting rid of a self destructing industry is your definition of destroying the country then you need your head examined.

Go to Yorkshire, South Wales, Eastern Scotland, Merseyside and tell me she didn't ruin the country - those areas and plenty of others still haven't recovered from her brutal policies, yes the mines were in a bit of a state, but she just closed them down and left the area to rot when anyone with a modicum of sense would see that sticking hundreds on the dole and leaving entire communities up **** creek with no paddles to get themselves back down was a bad idea.

Reply 148

gateshipone

10

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

Go to Yorkshire, South Wales, Eastern Scotland, Merseyside and tell me she didn't ruin the country - those areas and plenty of others still haven't recovered from her brutal policies, yes the mines were in a bit of a state, but she just closed them down and left the area to rot when anyone with a modicum of sense would see that sticking hundreds on the dole and leaving entire communities up **** creek with no paddles to get themselves back down was a bad idea.

I'm in South Wales...

Reply 149

CJKay

19

Original post by Eveiebaby

To be honest, along with her creating struggle for survival for the miners which was a massive, massive industry at the time of course she was a sympathiser for the aparteid, which which caused many deaths and improper treatment of people of colour in South Africa. Maggie has her fans, it's no suprise that she's going to have her enemies too. And I think for good reason. Supporting something that caused so much suffering is pretty evil. She didnt have any sympathy for the many that died; she maintained her beliefs to keep the apartheid going. Is her life more important?

Pass me the disco shoes please.

That "massive, massive industry" was dead - she just buried it, albeit very quickly with little thought of the consequences.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 150

a729

OP

16

Original post by Fullofsurprises

The OP doesn't seem to make a lot of sense as written.

I read the outrage in the Mail this morning about all this. There were some comic tweets and remarks, some of them in bad taste, some moderately funny. As for the "party in Trafalgar Square", from the photos it looks like the usual SWP types looking to cause a bit of trouble. Not quite clear what difference they make to anything. There has also (apparently) been a bit of a street party in Brixton and one in Glasgow, according to hysterical reports in the media. From video clips and photos, these appear to consist of about a dozen SWP members in each.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-party-brixton-glasgow

I missed out the word 'disgusted' in the title

I passed by Brixton yesterday and I can trll you there were more than 12 people there!

Anyhow time will tell how busy Trafalgar Square will be on Saturday

Reply 151

James82

17

Original post by robin22391

when?

Original post by a729

Really!
I haven't heard that before!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1475644.stm

Reply 152

CJKay

19

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

I really don't care - I make no apologies for enjoying this, I consider her nothing short of evil - training massacres, putting families through hell to protect the police, leaving entire communities to rot - that's what she was responsible for - She destroyed the country, and anyone who has any sorrow at her passing shows that they have the same contempt for humanity that she did. The only sad thing is that while the head is dead, the body (Thatcherism) lives on.

When her political legacy is as dead as she is then I'll be partying so much it'll make Charlie Sheen look restrained.

See, this is why nobody likes socialists.

Reply 153

a729

OP

16

Original post by James82

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1475644.stm

Ok thanks for letting me know!

Leftie propaganda has infiltrated mainstream media- I.e the Guardian

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 154

a729

OP

16

Original post by CJKay

See, this is why nobody likes socialists.

Apart from champagne salesmen!

From the term "champagne socialists " lool

Reply 155

paddyman4

14

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

I really don't care - I make no apologies for enjoying this, I consider her nothing short of evil - training massacres, putting families through hell to protect the police, leaving entire communities to rot - that's what she was responsible for - She destroyed the country, and anyone who has any sorrow at her passing shows that they have the same contempt for humanity that she did. The only sad thing is that while the head is dead, the body (Thatcherism) lives on.

When her political legacy is as dead as she is then I'll be partying so much it'll make Charlie Sheen look restrained.

I consider it evil to revel in somebody's death. How would you feel if your mum died and you turned on the news to see people partying about it?

If you think she destroyed this country, you have no idea what it was like before her. Britain was ruined, we were 'the sick man of Europe'. Aside from Argentina, you'll be hard pressed to find a world leader who won't agree that she saved Britain and played a big part in positive foreign affairs.

She was not some evil dictator. She won three elections fairly, she democratically held office for longer than anyone since the early 19th Century, never lost a general election as PM. If you think she was evil for what she did, you think the majority of this country is evil for backing her.

Reply 156

Stiff Little Fingers

21

Original post by paddyman4

I consider it evil to revel in somebody's death. How would you feel if your mum died and you turned on the news to see people partying about it?

If you think she destroyed this country, you have no idea what it was like before her. Britain was ruined, we were 'the sick man of Europe'. Aside from Argentina, you'll be hard pressed to find a world leader who won't agree that she saved Britain and played a big part in positive foreign affairs.

She was not some evil dictator. She won three elections fairly, she democratically held office for longer than anyone since the early 19th Century, never lost a general election as PM. If you think she was evil for what she did, you think the majority of this country is evil for backing her.

If my mother was a public figure who'd did the damage that thatcher did then, while I'd be hurt, I'd understand why people would be happy - Satan made herself a lot of enemies through essentially shutting down the mines in towns that relied entirely on the mines, then turning and shrugging "not my problem" when it was asked what would happen to those towns. That's before we even get on to foreign policy and the disrespect she and her government showed to the Hillsborough victims.

It's safe to say she didn't win either re-election through her own work - the '83 was due to infighting with Labour and the left wing being torn apart by the block of four, while '87 was down to again Labour being in disarray with Kinnock in charge, coupled with a very pro-tory press.

Reply 157

Banny Dyrne

3

This just gives an insight into the minds of the people who opposed her.

Reply 158

gateshipone

10

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

Satan

Ya know, with the use of this once single word you've invalidated your whole argument. Name calling is hardly going to make anyone give a damn about what you're saying.

Reply 159

Jaki_B

8

I am totally disgusted at the way people are taking her death as something to celebrate. She was a mother, a grandmother, and a great leader. She stood up for the country and had to make tough decisions. She saved the Falklands from being invaded (they didn't want, and still don't want, to be run by Argentina). Thatcher allowed millions the chance to buy their council house (which my parents did). Yes, she closed the mines, privatised things and you all complain that she didn't have sympathy. She had to be strong, show herself as a leader who was serious in what she did. She was in power for eleven years running, the people elected her in a democratic and fair election (and Stiff Little Fingers, you can say what you want, it doesn't change the fact that the people chose her).

However, she left office in 1990, so what has happened to the country since? Has her successors made Britain any better? We're paying £45 million a day to be the puppy dog of the EU, our own Queen has signed all her powers away with the Lisbon Treaty and is now nothing more than you or me, farmers are being paid to not grow things on their lands, anyone and any number of Europeans can pop over here and take any job they want, claim any benefits and send the money back to their families, the health care and education funding has been dramatically cut so that we can give more money to overseas aid, we're scrapping out ships and cutting down on our military because of the EU, and, finally, more and more privatisation. You cannot blame Maggie for how the country is now! You all complain about the mines being shut, well why haven't they been reopened? Because Europe tells us not to. Maggie did the best thing for our country. She probably put on a few extra years on the lives of those miners (the average age of a coal miner is 52.7 years, my Grandad lived 'til he was 83 and died of cancer).

It will be totally disrespectful, not to only her, but also to her family, if anyone disrupts her funeral. She deserves to go in peace like anyone else, if not as a great leader, at least as a great mother and grandmother.

I'm at parties about Margaret Thatcher's death

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