The Student Room Group

Adjoints

Is it not correct to say this?

[br]Q(α,w)=(a+bα+cα2+dw+[br]jw2+ewα+fwα2+[br]gw2α+hw2α2:a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,jQ)[br][br]α=23[br]w=e2πi3[br][br][br]Q(\alpha,w) =(a+b\alpha+c\alpha^2+dw+[br]jw^2+ew\alpha+fw\alpha^2+[br]gw^{2}\alpha+hw^{2}{\alpha^2}:a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,j \in Q)[br][br]\alpha = \sqrt[3]{2}[br]w = e^{\frac{2\pi i}{3}}[br][br]

EDIT: The lines on latex are being a bit weird, but all of the w's should be omegas
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 1
Context?
Reply 2
Original post by Mark85
Context?


I am adjoining the rational field to those numbers
Reply 3
Original post by 2710
I am adjoining the rational field to those numbers


Aha, I should have looked at it more closely before asking. The title is misleading - this has nothing to with adjoints. I was thinking that this was going to be some kind of adjoint function and from that point of view it wouldn't make any sense.

Also, you are adjoining those numbers to the rationals - not the other way round.

Anyway, to answer the question, it is technically correct to say that:

Q(α,ω)={a+bα+cα2+dω+jω2+eωα+fωα2+gω2α+hω2α2a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,jQ}\mathbb{Q}(\alpha,\omega) = \{a+b\alpha+c\alpha^2+d\omega+j \omega^2+e\omega\alpha+f\omega \alpha^2+g\omega^{2}\alpha+h \omega^{2}{\alpha^2}\mid a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,j \in \mathbb{Q}\}

but it is also misleading and even disingenuous to put it like that since the extension is only of degree six, not nine.
Reply 4
Original post by Mark85
Aha, I should have looked at it more closely before asking. The title is misleading - this has nothing to with adjoints. I was thinking that this was going to be some kind of adjoint function and from that point of view it wouldn't make any sense.

Also, you are adjoining those numbers to the rationals - not the other way round.

Anyway, to answer the question, it is technically correct to say that:

Q(α,ω)={a+bα+cα2+dω+jω2+eωα+fωα2+gω2α+hω2α2a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,jQ}\mathbb{Q}(\alpha,\omega) = \{a+b\alpha+c\alpha^2+d\omega+j \omega^2+e\omega\alpha+f\omega \alpha^2+g\omega^{2}\alpha+h \omega^{2}{\alpha^2}\mid a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,j \in \mathbb{Q}\}

but it is also misleading and even disingenuous to put it like that since the extension is only of degree six, not nine.


Damn my latex is bad compared to yours >__>

I only put it like that because that is the way I think. I like to think concretely, and by putting it like that, I can see what that actually is. But ok, so it is technically correct, and thats all I need I guess :P

Can I ask, so there will be 6 elements in the basis? Can I ask which 6?

{1, a, a^2, w, w^2...?} (i'm using a as alpha) (Now that I think about it, wouldnt there be 9 elements in the basis?)
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 5
Original post by 2710

I only put it like that because that is the way I think. I like to think concretely, and by putting it like that, I can see what that actually is. But ok, so it is technically correct, and thats all I need I guess :P


Well, presumably this example arises in the context of working out the Galois group or something and in that case, or indeed any case, it is much better to work with a Q\mathbb{Q}-basis, it really will simplify and clarify anything you want to do with it.

I mean, it is technically correct to say that

R2={a(1,0)+b(3,5)+c(12,333)+d(π,13.67)+e(sin(34)27.8888,3)+f(0,1)a,b,c,d,e,fR}\mathbb{R}^2= \{a(1,0)+b(3,5)+c(12,333)+d(\pi,13.67)+e(\frac{\mathrm{sin}(34)}{27.8888},3)+f(0,1)\mid a,b,c,d,e,f \in \mathbb{R}\}

but you aren't really specifying R2\mathbb{R}^2 any more clearly than the obvious alternative.

Or for an example closer to the spirit of the example, imagine wiriting:

C={a+bi+ci2+di3a,b,c,dR}\mathbb{C}=\{a + bi + ci^2 + di^3 \mid a,b,c,d \in \mathbb{R}\}
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 6
Original post by Mark85
Well, presumably this example arises in the context of working out the Galois group or something and in that case, or indeed any case, it is much better to work with a Q\mathbb{Q}-basis, it really will simplify and clarify anything you want to do with it.

I mean, it is technically correct to say that

R2={a(1,0)+b(3,5)+c(12,333)+d(π,13.67)+e(sin(34)27.8888,3)+f(0,1)a,b,c,d,e,fR}\mathbb{R}^2= \{a(1,0)+b(3,5)+c(12,333)+d(\pi,13.67)+e(\frac{\mathrm{sin}(34)}{27.8888},3)+f(0,1)\mid a,b,c,d,e,f \in \mathbb{R}\}

but you aren't really specifying R2\mathbb{R}^2 any more clearly than the obvious alternative.

Or for an example closer to the spirit of the example, imagine wiriting:

C={a+bi+ci2+di3a,b,c,dR}\mathbb{C}=\{a + bi + ci^2 + di^3 \mid a,b,c,d \in \mathbb{R}\}


Hmm. ok, i get that in your exmaples, you have redundant terms. So in my expression, which ones are the redundant terms? And how would you write it?

Like in your C example, ci^2 = -c, which I guess can be 'absorbed' by the a, making it redundant. Which terms of mine can be absorbed?
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 7
Original post by 2710
Hmm. ok, i get that in your exmaples, you have redundant terms. So in my expression, which ones are the redundant terms? And how would you write it?

Like in your C example, ci^2 = -c, which I guess can be 'absorbed' by the a, making it redundant. Which terms of mine can be absorbed?


ω\omega is a primitive cube root of unity so in particular:

1+ω+ω2=01+\omega +\omega^2 = 0

i.e. ω2=1ω\omega^2 = -1-\omega
Reply 8
Original post by Mark85
ω\omega is a primitive cube root of unity so in particular:

1+ω+ω2=01+\omega +\omega^2 = 0

i.e. ω2=1ω\omega^2 = -1-\omega


Oh i see! Thank you, I understand now, I didnt realise that w^2 can be expressed like that.
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 9
So it would be more appropiate to write this:

[br]Q(α,ω)={a+bα+cα2+dω+eωα+fωα2a,b,c,d,e,fQ}[br][br]\mathbb{Q}(\alpha,\omega) = \{a+b\alpha+c\alpha^2+d\omega+e \omega\alpha+f\omega\alpha^2\mid a,b,c,d,e,f \in \mathbb{Q}\}[br]
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 10
Original post by 2710
So it would be more appropiate to write this:

[br]Q(α,ω)={a+bα+cα2+dω+eωα+ωα2+fa,b,c,d,e,fQ}[br][br]\mathbb{Q}(\alpha,\omega) = \{a+b\alpha+c\alpha^2+d\omega+e \omega\alpha+\omega\alpha^2+f\mid a,b,c,d,e,f \in \mathbb{Q}\}[br]


Exactly.

Quick Reply

Latest