Peter Lloyd: 'Why I'm suing my gym over their sexist women-only hours'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2311098/Peter-Lloyd-Why-Im-suing-gym-sexist-women-hours.html
what do you think of the view expressed in this article and womens only hours in general?
i can see where the guy is coming from. why do women need their special hours where men are excluded but men can't have the same thing? it says in the article because women are self conscious, have body hang ups, hate the way they look when they exercise and would rather men did not see this. but if i dont like the way i look when exercising around women, i cant ask for men only hours because i would be laughed at for being pathetic and told to man up. it is completely ridiculous in this day and age.
what do you think of the view expressed in this article and womens only hours in general?
i can see where the guy is coming from. why do women need their special hours where men are excluded but men can't have the same thing? it says in the article because women are self conscious, have body hang ups, hate the way they look when they exercise and would rather men did not see this. but if i dont like the way i look when exercising around women, i cant ask for men only hours because i would be laughed at for being pathetic and told to man up. it is completely ridiculous in this day and age.
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Reminds me of these:
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Miracle Day
...
This is why Gym in US are the best things....Everything is cheap in US...Food, Protein Powder, Gym (Big halls with various equipments and cheap membership, and im pretty sure no "womens only" time schedule)
Posted from TSR Mobile
Posted from TSR Mobile
He's being a right little princess.
So they have female-only hours, big deal, go some other time, or go to some other gym.
So they have female-only hours, big deal, go some other time, or go to some other gym.
I agree with you and with him. If the problem is women's insecurity, then we should be dealing with that rather than pandering to it. I'm surprised anyone has the energy to take legal action over such a thing, but I can't fault him for the principle.
ALTHOUGH, this annoys me: "a group of agenda-driven feminists say a minority of women 'feel' bad about their bodies." Does he know what a feminist is? I am feminist and I am a great believer in not segregating men and women, as are many who would identify as feminists. I don't think he had any reason to link the situation with that term. If anything I'd say it's belittling and anti-feminist to have women-only hours, not to mention that I see feminism as a belief in two-way equality between the sexes.
The only other argument the gym could apply (and I'm surprised they didn't) is that some religions wouldn't allow women to work out in a gym with men present. Not that I think that's a good reason, but it's a fairly typical line for this sort of scenario.
ALTHOUGH, this annoys me: "a group of agenda-driven feminists say a minority of women 'feel' bad about their bodies." Does he know what a feminist is? I am feminist and I am a great believer in not segregating men and women, as are many who would identify as feminists. I don't think he had any reason to link the situation with that term. If anything I'd say it's belittling and anti-feminist to have women-only hours, not to mention that I see feminism as a belief in two-way equality between the sexes.
The only other argument the gym could apply (and I'm surprised they didn't) is that some religions wouldn't allow women to work out in a gym with men present. Not that I think that's a good reason, but it's a fairly typical line for this sort of scenario.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Movember
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2311098/Peter-Lloyd-Why-Im-suing-gym-sexist-women-hours.html
what do you think of the view expressed in this article and womens only hours in general?
i can see where the guy is coming from. why do women need their special hours where men are excluded but men can't have the same thing? it says in the article because women are self conscious, have body hang ups, hate the way they look when they exercise and would rather men did not see this. but if i dont like the way i look when exercising around women, i cant ask for men only hours because i would be laughed at for being pathetic and told to man up. it is completely ridiculous in this day and age.
what do you think of the view expressed in this article and womens only hours in general?
i can see where the guy is coming from. why do women need their special hours where men are excluded but men can't have the same thing? it says in the article because women are self conscious, have body hang ups, hate the way they look when they exercise and would rather men did not see this. but if i dont like the way i look when exercising around women, i cant ask for men only hours because i would be laughed at for being pathetic and told to man up. it is completely ridiculous in this day and age.
It really isn't that much of a big deal. Surely one could take the point apart and point out why it may or may not be wrong but really it's not a big deal. Going through the motions or suing them just makes it seem somewhat over the top.(edited 11 years ago)
I understand why women would want women's only hours but... There's also women's only gyms, which are suitable for many reasons including religious reasons. I think that a normal gym for the general public should not cater to women with a time slot just for them if they are unwilling to do the same for men- it's just unfair!
Not sure suing them personally is necessary, waste of time IMO.
Not sure suing them personally is necessary, waste of time IMO.
Original post by Dirac Delta Function
He's being a right little princess.
So they have female-only hours, big deal, go some other time, or go to some other gym.
So they have female-only hours, big deal, go some other time, or go to some other gym.
You can say the same to the women demanding women only hours.
Original post by bottled
You can say the same to the women demanding women only hours.
Well, there's clearly demand for this kind of thing from women, it's up to the gym to decide how it sells it services.
Original post by Jelkin
I agree with you and with him. If the problem is women's insecurity, then we should be dealing with that rather than pandering to it. I'm surprised anyone has the energy to take legal action over such a thing, but I can't fault him for the principle.
ALTHOUGH, this annoys me: "a group of agenda-driven feminists say a minority of women 'feel' bad about their bodies." Does he know what a feminist is? I am feminist and I am a great believer in not segregating men and women, as are many who would identify as feminists. I don't think he had any reason to link the situation with that term. If anything I'd say it's belittling and anti-feminist to have women-only hours, not to mention that I see feminism as a belief in two-way equality between the sexes.
The only other argument the gym could apply (and I'm surprised they didn't) is that some religions wouldn't allow women to work out in a gym with men present. Not that I think that's a good reason, but it's a fairly typical line for this sort of scenario.
ALTHOUGH, this annoys me: "a group of agenda-driven feminists say a minority of women 'feel' bad about their bodies." Does he know what a feminist is? I am feminist and I am a great believer in not segregating men and women, as are many who would identify as feminists. I don't think he had any reason to link the situation with that term. If anything I'd say it's belittling and anti-feminist to have women-only hours, not to mention that I see feminism as a belief in two-way equality between the sexes.
The only other argument the gym could apply (and I'm surprised they didn't) is that some religions wouldn't allow women to work out in a gym with men present. Not that I think that's a good reason, but it's a fairly typical line for this sort of scenario.
Tbh Most pushes to open up men only for women, and more women only spaces have been by feminists.like the men only gold club which was forced to change it's 'men only' opening requirement, due to sexism.
Moreover(talking about the author now) by stating that women feel uncomfortable about their bodies, thus there should be women only spaces in mixed gyms is asinine, short sighted, and dumb (not like I'd expect more from the femail article writers). It makes it seem like insecurity is a woman's only problem, and that only men shame women for their problems. I've seen plenty of fat men at the gym being mocked for their weight by asshats, yet they don't want a 'men's only space' in gyms.
And tbh, is suing them over the top? Hell yeah. Can he win? Possibly. But IMO, it would make more of an impact to people, especially if he wins. It'll make a more lasting impression that a well written article.
In a gym that is a mixed-gender gym, I don't think they should have women-only hours. There are already women-only gyms - which I understand, same principle as women only bathrooms - but there's no need to allot a couple of hours for women in a general public gym.
That being said, suing over it just suggests he has too much free time.
That being said, suing over it just suggests he has too much free time.
Original post by bottled
Tbh Most pushes to open up men only for women, and more women only spaces have been by feminists.like the men only gold club which was forced to change it's 'men only' opening requirement, due to sexism.
Moreover(talking about the author now) by stating that women feel uncomfortable about their bodies, thus there should be women only spaces in mixed gyms is asinine, short sighted, and dumb (not like I'd expect more from the femail article writers). It makes it seem like insecurity is a woman's only problem, and that only men shame women for their problems. I've seen plenty of fat men at the gym being mocked for their weight by asshats, yet they don't want a 'men's only space' in gyms.
And tbh, is suing them over the top? Hell yeah. Can he win? Possibly. But IMO, it would make more of an impact to people, especially if he wins. It'll make a more lasting impression that a well written article.
Moreover(talking about the author now) by stating that women feel uncomfortable about their bodies, thus there should be women only spaces in mixed gyms is asinine, short sighted, and dumb (not like I'd expect more from the femail article writers). It makes it seem like insecurity is a woman's only problem, and that only men shame women for their problems. I've seen plenty of fat men at the gym being mocked for their weight by asshats, yet they don't want a 'men's only space' in gyms.
And tbh, is suing them over the top? Hell yeah. Can he win? Possibly. But IMO, it would make more of an impact to people, especially if he wins. It'll make a more lasting impression that a well written article.
Really? Do you have any evidence to suggest that the people pushing for these women-only hours identify as feminists?
Most people I know who would call themselves feminist are comfortable in the company of men and wouldn't want women-only hours. And even though there probably are "feminists" who do want this sort of thing, it's not right for him to write like it's a specifically feminist idea, or make any connection at all between feminism and the issue. As far as I'm aware the core value of feminism is equality (although there are people who see it as specifically and only women-serving - usually men though as far as I've seen!), and this policy certainly does not promote equality.
Agreed with the rest of your post though. That being said, businesses exist to make money and not to push moral codes, so if they can make more money with women-only hours then they will do it. See also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yowHM6nqu60 It's good for consumers to push against these things but businesses will only change if they're made to legally or if they stand to lose money.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Jelkin
Really? Do you have any evidence to suggest that the people pushing for these women-only hours identify as feminists?
Most people I know who would call themselves feminist are comfortable in the company of men and wouldn't want women-only hours. And even though there probably are "feminists" who do want this sort of thing, it's not right for him to write like it's a specifically feminist idea, or make any connection at all between feminism and the issue. As far as I'm aware the core value of feminism is equality (although there are people who see it as specifically and only women-serving - usually men though as far as I've seen!), and this policy certainly does not promote equality.
Agreed with the rest of your post though. That being said, businesses exist to make money and not to push moral codes, so if they can make more money with women-only hours then they will do it. See also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yowHM6nqu60 It's good for consumers to push against these things but businesses will only change if they're made to legally or if they stand to lose money.
Most people I know who would call themselves feminist are comfortable in the company of men and wouldn't want women-only hours. And even though there probably are "feminists" who do want this sort of thing, it's not right for him to write like it's a specifically feminist idea, or make any connection at all between feminism and the issue. As far as I'm aware the core value of feminism is equality (although there are people who see it as specifically and only women-serving - usually men though as far as I've seen!), and this policy certainly does not promote equality.
Agreed with the rest of your post though. That being said, businesses exist to make money and not to push moral codes, so if they can make more money with women-only hours then they will do it. See also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yowHM6nqu60 It's good for consumers to push against these things but businesses will only change if they're made to legally or if they stand to lose money.
ah. My bad, I was going to put it 'from what I've seen most feminists are...'. But yeah, at any rate I hope this man if he wins doesn't take too much money. Otherwise that guy is just a douchebag. It may be sexist, however they meant nothing harmful by it. I tend to generalise due to the crappy feminists I see (after all, you can still advocate for women's rights and still be sexist)
But again, although businesses may be business orientated, it IS in their interest to put morality and ethics up high, as although it may cost a lot, the financial setbacks to not following them may result in terrible consequences.
(edited 11 years ago)
I understand that women are self-conscious but what makes people think guys aren't self-conscious about their bodies? I know that quite a lot of guys actually are, like if they're skinny and they wish they were more muscular. So while I think that women should be allowed to have a women's only gym or women's only hours, I think men should as well. For example, for women I know that some religions require you to be covered up in front of men, I imagine (I don't know, I'm speculating) that must get very uncomfortable when you're exercising, so in that sense they might want to go to a women's only gym so they can wear clothing that isn't going to boil them alive. But again, that's just speculation and I think men should be allowed to have their own gyms too if they want. But then of course people will think that's sexist against women. EQUALITY IS ABOUT GIVING EVERYONE THE SAME TREATMENT. Ahhhh, double standards. I admit that sometimes I wouldn't like to run into guys I know at the gym but to be honest, nobody really cares. Although some people have massive self-image issues, but as I said, men have those too. A boy I know had anorexia, it's not something exclusive to girls.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Dirac Delta Function
Well, there's clearly demand for this kind of thing from women, it's up to the gym to decide how it sells it services.
The demand is irrelevant, they are essentially doing the same thing. would I call someone who does a good cosplay a loser, but then say that people who display equally as well as another person cool? It's rather hypocritical for me to do so. Its the principle behind it..
My initial argument wasn't about there being a demand in short.
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Dirac Delta Function
He's being a right little princess.
So they have female-only hours, big deal, go some other time, or go to some other gym.
So they have female-only hours, big deal, go some other time, or go to some other gym.
Have you not heard of the concept of principle?
Original post by pol pot noodles
Have you not heard of the concept of principle?
Yes, in particular, the principle that private enterprise is free to carry out business as they see fit within the bounds of the law.
They are under no obligation - moral or otherwise - to serve him.
Original post by bottled
The demand is irrelevant, they are essentially doing the same thing. would I call someone who does a good cosplay a loser, but then say that people who display equally as well as another person cool? It's rather hypocritical for me to do so. Its the principle behind it..
My initial argument wasn't about there being a demand in short.
My initial argument wasn't about there being a demand in short.
Those women are not going to court about it, he is. They are not doing the same thing.
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