Schools ‘expelling too many ethnic minority boys

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You ban braids and cornrows, you should ban all religious head wear too. Double standards.

I remember someone from my school allegedly got expelled for dying her hair and the local papers made a big fuss of it. What they failed to mention was that she'd been suspended numerous times before that and she knew she was on a final warning. The haircut story sounds a bit sensationalist to me.

Reply 22

Jordan-James

Whats the argument, it says Gypsies get expelled more, theyre predominantly white arent they?

To be very honest, generally when you get expelled from school, theres more to it than just hairstyle, those excluded were probably general troublemakers etc, and the school just needed to get rid of them.

Put it this way. If there was, straight A student with 100 percent punctuality expelled for having cane rows, i would completely agree with the uproar.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 23

username306617

Original post by Precious12

The question I would like to ask schools is would they prefer for these boys to come in with messy afros or perfectly neat and sensible cornrows? Its ridiculous... schools cannot force their students to cut their hair :/

Yes they can.
My school didn't allow boys to have hair longer than their shirt collar.
Plenty of guys would get sent home with long hairstyles and told to come back when it was cut.
It was also against the rules to have a very closely shaven head.

However as there were no black people at my school I don't know what their policy would have been on cornrows vs afro.

Reply 24

Blake-inator

Original post by zeropoint

Surely having a relatively innocuous hairstyle should not be against the rules?

If children don't show appropriate respect to teachers then this may lead to a breakdown of class discipline, and that does have an effect on other children. In this case I support the school's decision to exclude.

But for hair? seriously?

My friend (she's an adult, like 35) is a newsreader, and she tells me that if a man came into work (to read news) with any facial hair, he would be sent home, and probably fired. It is not the done thing. It is up to the people in charge whether or not he was fired, and in the same way it is up to the people in charge in a school whether or not a student is expelled. It is not your choice. As a schoolchild, I find some rules outrageous, but I follow them because that is what I should have to do to stay there.

Another example: I can say to my friend (not best, but fairly close), I will give them £500 and then they must do a back-flip off a trampoline. Once I've given them the money, if they say it is unreasonable / not right for me to ask this, then they will no longer be my friend and I wouldn't associate myself with them (after all, it is £500!). In the same way, if the school offer you education and you accept, if you don't do what they want, they can get rid of you

Reply 25

Snagprophet

How is this discriminatory? Are they suggesting that black people are banned from wearing cornrows but white people aren't? Schools should have standards, I think allowing the religious clothing is discriminatory because it's something that someone made up inside their head. If anything, it looks like people are arguing for ethnic minorities to have more liberties than white people, for whatever reason 'it's not racist if it discriminates white people'.

Perhaps we need to see ethnic cleansing to see what real discrimination is.

Reply 26

Messalina

You have to adhere to the school uniform if you want to go to that school. If your haircut is more important to you than your education, that's your problem.

I think this haircut debate is getting in the way of the bigger issue though; I went to school with lots of traveller kids and the reason they were always getting expelled was because they were horrible, violent, disruptive and bullying to other students - vastly more than any other ethnic minority (I grew up in South London, most of the kids in my school were either British, Korean or traveller). I don't doubt it was thanks to their upbringing. Ethnic minorities should in no way be discriminated against, but they shouldn't receive positive discrimination for their ethnicity if they're behaving badly in school.

Reply 27

whyumadtho

Original post by OMGWTFBBQ

Most schools place limits on the length of boy's hair.

My school had a strict 'no longer than the cuff' policy.

Original post by Jimbo1234

Pupils are excluded for having very short hair. Why is this any different?

I've never encountered any schools that have an explicit policy on natural hair (only ones with rules against an excessive number of hair accessories/unnatural hair dyes/etc.). Jimbo1234, I disagree with the principle for both cornrows and very short hair (I doubt the latter would apply for those with afro-textured hair, which is also discriminatory).

OMGWTFBBQ, did that policy also apply to girls?

Reply 28

alabelle

People are ignoring the fact that these kids aren't just being excluded for having cornrows.

Reply 29

Blake-inator

Original post by consumed by stuff

You ban braids and cornrows, you should ban all religious head wear too. Double standards.

they are in my school! they should be everywhere!

Reply 30

Rooster523

Alternatively- too many ethnic minority school children disobey school rules.

Reply 31

zeropoint

Original post by Blake-inator

I can only be thankful I don't work where your friend works. A number of organisations require staff to present themselves in a professional manner, but if a company will fire someone for facial hair they will be excluding a great number of talented and valuable people.

In my experience the best teachers and best schools are ones where the rules are clear and followed, but not by threat of harsh punishment but because the rules seem fair and sensible. If a school applies seemingly arbitrary rules then they cannot expect a high degree of student compliance or parental support. As such they are forced to resort to heavy handed threats and punishments which is bad for the students and bad for the school.

Reply 32

zeropoint

Original post by Blake-inator

they are in my school! they should be everywhere!

If your school banned religious head-wear they'd be ripped apart in court.

Where is this school, and how high is the wall they use to keep out the lawyers? :tongue:

Reply 33

DarkWhite

Didn't you hear? We're not allowed to be different. We all have to dress, style, and act the same; it's discipline, right?

The biggest problem with our education system is it stifles creativity, imagination, innovation, never mind extending that to hairstyles.

On a side note, exclusion does sometimes need to happen, sure, but we should be doing our utmost best to engage with pupils on changing behaviours (not hairstyles) and working with them to resolve problems rather than against them so they take them elsewhere.

Reply 34

Jimbo1234

Original post by whyumadtho

Wow, you must have attended or know pretty crappy schools.
Certain hairstyles are associated with the bottom end of society thus good schools do not want their pupils to reflect these people and want them to aspire to be greater than those people.
Why not have an afro? Why shave it off? Are they ashamed of having fuzzy hair? That speaks more about society outside of schools than it does the school. The school is saying everyone should be treated equally. Are you saying this is wrong?

Original post by DarkWhite

Being creative is fine, but when did cornrows and skinheads become creative? :curious:

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 35

Blake-inator

Original post by zeropoint

MY friend works for the BBC, the same rule applies to all news readers in Britain... its kind of a rule!

Clearly you lack sufficient experience! And how are these heavy handed threats bad for the school? Making these threats and not following them through is bad for the school... it loses the respect of both current and prospective students. Besides which, if hairstyle didn't matter, why did the student not give in and do what they wanted?

Reply 36

Hopple

Original post by AverageExcellence

I don't see why they would ban corn rows but students attitude towards teachers shouldn't be at all based on their cultural upbringing. I'm not a global expert on all the globes cultures but im pretty sure in every society you're told to respect your seniors from parents, teachers and elders failing that at least be curtious. Noone teaches arrogance and rudeness.. Why should 'minority kids' get a free pass when western kids wouldn't be allowed to get away with it. If the expulsion rate is disproportional due to behaviour the answer is certainly not to be more lenient in punishing it but actually trying to remedy that problem. When they go out to the world of work employers and society at large won't give them any such free pass... Its Ridiculous.

Indeed, allowing the disrespecting of teachers undermines the whole education system. As we all know, it only takes one troublemaker in a class to wreck the lesson, and if the teacher can't send them out, and the school can't exclude them for 'serial offending' then you're knowingly hampering all the kids' education.

Reply 37

Blake-inator

Original post by zeropoint

If your school banned religious head-wear they'd be ripped apart in court.

Where is this school, and how high is the wall they use to keep out the lawyers? :tongue:

To be fair, I am making an assumption... Its a good school, nearly top of the tables! But it is filled with "ethnic minorities" so the white people (me) are easily the minority. I am assuming that in all of these people, one would be a sikh/muslim girl and wear headwear, but no one ever has

Reply 38

whyumadtho

Original post by Blake-inator

These are private institutions/transactions that have private aims and standards. A school's principal aim (as established by the state) is to ensure their students are educated to the best standard possible; their standards should be established with the intention of ensuring this principal aim is achieved. I disagree with the deployment of extraneous standards that have no bearing on the principal aim of the school (and, in fact, detract from it). I also don't see how this particular standard would have any bearing on any other aim the school may have.

Reply 39

Blake-inator

And more generally, this doesn't show prejudism, but rather the minorities are wreaking havoc in our schools! That is the real problem, and MUST be addressed.