Do people have the moral 'right' to call each other fat?

OP

You really need to ask yourself why your cousin has an attractive boyfriend. Is it because he likes her for who she is or is it because he thinks she'll be easier to manipulate into doing anal?

Not all males have the same values or preferences in women.

Reply 301

Iron Lady

OP

Original post by MrHappy_J

sorry but it strikes me as slightly Nazi when you said fat people should be kicked out of the country...

This. Completely agree.

It's imposing meaningless and arbitrary restrictions on how should live in the country. Opinion, not fact. You don't "get rid" of people just because you dislike them.

Reply 302

Iron Lady

OP

Original post by NessEB

Who am I bullying?

Overweight people for saying they're greedy and sinning.

I can't believe I have to keep saying this (were you all inept at understanding your parents' teaching of "treat others you would like to be treated" or "don't judge a book by its cover"?): but fat people aren't committing a crime for liking food.

Reply 303

kunoichi

20

Original post by CaptainDudeson

Please give me an example of a society where fatness is seen as being a good thing.

One of my martial arts instructors are from Tonga (i think, somewhere like that anyway.)

Apparently there 'You are looking fat today' is a compliment, and larger people are found more attractive.

Reply 304

NessEB

12

Original post by Iron Lady

Overweight people for saying they're greedy and sinning.

I can't believe I have to keep saying this (were you all inept at understanding your parents' teaching of "treat others you would like to be treated" or "don't judge a book by its cover"?): but fat people aren't committing a crime for liking food.

Far from inept. Why should I care for someone who clearly can't care for themselves?

What annoys me the most is when fat people complain about being fat and try convincing people (and most likely themselves) they've 'tried everything' when clearly they haven't.

I watched embarrassing bodies a few months ago and there was a black obese woman who started crying on the show saying she's done everything to try and lose weight and that she 'wants to do it for her son', yet when Christian Jessen offered an alternative route (which was to drink healthy shakes) she point blank refused and ended up getting surgery to remove the fat which, might I add, she didn't even pay for.

How is that justifiable? It's her fault she's fat and can't control herself, yet you and me are the suckers paying for her mistakes.

Reply 305

ashleighgiles

12

Original post by Iron Lady

I would only help them if they specifically asked for my help. Otherwise it looks like I'm imposing my ideas of a perfect image on them. But surely, if they knew they had a severe health problems, the inclination to seek help is there. But they just need to ask for it first. People aren't fools, they know when to seek medical action. The individual can only help themselves.

Well you have the basic idea. The "perfect image" for every person is different. I personally like a few chubby spots here and there on myself. :smile:

But what if the person has, for instance, Prader-Willi Syndrome? The individual can't help him/herself when it comes to appetite, let alone know when its time to see a doctor. Its a complicated decision whether to sit down and watch or have the initiative to help, even if you're going to be called an ******* for barging in someone's diet.

And back to the title (again), no one has the right to "name" people fat, but stating the obvious to a patient is something totally different.

Reply 306

Beth_L_G

10

I know as a family we sometimes get annoyed. We have a lot of health issues, for example my mum has type 1 diabetes, a genetic disorder, but often can't get finding for things she needs because the departments money is spent on those with type 2 diabetes, usually caused by over eating.

Last year I needed hip surgery by a specialist in teenage hip disorders. I had to wait 6 months in agony on the waiting list for surgery because I was behind people that had weak hips due to over eating (obviously this wasn't everyone in front of me, but one of my doctors once said "wow, finally someone in here that didnt bring this on themselves" )

Is it wrong to walk up to someone you don't know, or someone who's size isn't affecting you and call them fat? Yes of course it is. Even if their weight is affecting you in some wa it is still very rude to comment. I do however understand sometimes why the thought cross people's minds, but no they do not have a right to openly call people fat

Reply 307

MasterJomi

12

people have every right to say what they want. Others also have every right to criticize them for it.

I've had many discussion with people about this topic actually. I find fat very unattractive, and don't really understand how someone can eat themselves into the overweight category.

I personally think being fat is due to self-restraint / will power issues which are both also unattractive traits.

Though I wouldn't go round making these comments myself, I have every right to think them though. (Actually, I have been known to have private conversations about fat people quite loudly... Tbh I am a dick).

Reply 308

frankieboy

13

Original post by MasterJomi

people have every right to say what they want.

Do you mean in general, or just about fat people?

Reply 309

MasterJomi

12

Original post by frankieboy

Do you mean in general, or just about fat people?

I mean in general.

People can say anything they want. But likewise, there may be consequences for saying these things which they should be aware of. And if they chose to ignore these consequences and do it anyway them it's up to them to chose to do that. People also have the right to dispute these things and disagree.

Reply 310

Iron Lady

OP

Original post by NessEB

Far from inept. Why should I care for someone who clearly can't care for themselves?

What annoys me the most is when fat people complain about being fat and try convincing people (and most likely themselves) they've 'tried everything' when clearly they haven't.

Yeah it's annoying (not all fat people do that though), but it's not your problem, it's theirs and if they refuse they live with the consequences.

I watched embarrassing bodies a few months ago and there was a black obese woman who started crying on the show saying she's done everything to try and lose weight and that she 'wants to do it for her son', yet when Christian Jessen offered an alternative route (which was to drink healthy shakes) she point blank refused and ended up getting surgery to remove the fat which, might I add, she didn't even pay for.

How is that justifiable? It's her fault she's fat and can't control herself, yet you and me are the suckers paying for her mistakes.

1. It's a TV show, it doesn't represent the public (though I do know what you're trying to say, and it is irritating when there are options but people choose to ignore them). In that case, ignore them and focus on yourself.
2. I don't think anyone should pay for her mistakes, but her.

Reply 311

CaptainDudeson

11

Original post by kunoichi

One of my martial arts instructors are from Tonga (i think, somewhere like that anyway.)

Apparently there 'You are looking fat today' is a compliment, and larger people are found more attractive.

Bloody hell. Rather a backward society.

Reply 312

frankieboy

13

Original post by MasterJomi

I mean in general.

People can say anything they want. But likewise, there may be consequences for saying these things which they should be aware of. And if they chose to ignore these consequences and do it anyway them it's up to them to chose to do that. People also have the right to dispute these things and disagree.

True - people can literally "say" whatever they want. But I guess that doesn't equate to "freedom of speech" - say some things and you'll get nicked, for example. By that reasoning people can "do" whatever they want. But if everyone did go around doing whatever they wanted, there'd be chaos. My point is - freedom of speech is a myth.

Original post by CaptainDudeson

Bloody hell. Rather a backward society.

Haha I was waiting for that.

Reply 313

Octohedral

16

Original post by NessEB

Far from inept. Why should I care for someone who clearly can't care for themselves?

What annoys me the most is when fat people complain about being fat and try convincing people (and most likely themselves) they've 'tried everything' when clearly they haven't.

I completely agree that people can and should simply do something themselves about it, well before heart disease and surgery.

However, from your attitude I'm willing to bet that you have never been significantly overweight? You have to understand that it's mental as much as physical. In itself, being fat and inactive robs you of energy. Instantly cutting out sugar and fast food when you have eaten it your whole life, a process which you have to continue for at least two years to make it stable, is an immense mental effort. Quite often it has become your only source of comfort - you associate it with relaxation and happiness. It is nothing like a healthy person going on a diet. Quite often people who say they have 'tried everything' genuinely think they have. They have put the effort in, but not had the mental strength to follow through, so it has had no effect.

I'm NOT advocating leniency, or saying we should accept this as an excuse, more that if you or anyone else really wants to sort out the problem, saying 'have some self-discipline' nine times out of ten will not work. What will work, and as someone who has lost a lot of weight, I really strongly think these things should be addressed in schools, are;

- More frequent PE lessons to establish habit.
- Telling people they ARE capable of becoming fit, and explaining how it is done. Most overweight people think they have to suddenly run 5k to get fit, when they usually just need pointing in the direction of some beginners' programmes.
- Mental stamina can be built up like normal stamina - slowly. Exercises in self-discipline.
- No more stick thin models telling girls they have to lose 20lb in a month to go to their cousin's wedding. This kind of crash dieting ironically leads directly to obesity, and to the myth that a healthy diet doesn't work.

Positive encouragement always wins. :biggrin:

Reply 314

MasterJomi

12

Original post by frankieboy

True - people can literally "say" whatever they want. But I guess that doesn't equate to "freedom of speech" - say some things and you'll get nicked, for example. By that reasoning people can "do" whatever they want. But if everyone did go around doing whatever they wanted, there'd be chaos. My point is - freedom of speech is a myth.

Yeah I get what you mean.

But 'technically' people can say and do whatever they want. But there are consequences to keep these desires to say and do these things in check.

But in the case of 'fat' people. I'm speaking more for the fact how people say 'So and so has no right to tell me to lose weight' etc. When actually they have right to say their opinion equally as much as they had the right to get offended.

Being offended by something doesn't give you any more rights because of it. (Unless it has actually gone against law..)

Though I would say doing and saying are vastly different though?

Reply 315

frankieboy

13

Original post by MasterJomi

Yeah I get what you mean.

But 'technically' people can say and do whatever they want. But there are consequences to keep these desires to say and do these things in check.

But in the case of 'fat' people. I'm speaking more for the fact how people say 'So and so has no right to tell me to lose weight' etc. When actually they have right to say their opinion equally as much as they had the right to get offended.

Being offended by something doesn't give you any more rights because of it. (Unless it has actually gone against law..)

Though I would say doing and saying are vastly different though?

I also get what you mean :smile:

.

The attitude I always take with people criticising other people's hair/weight/looks etc. is that if I do this to someone else, I then open myself up to them doing it back, and I may not like what I hear.

For example - I criticise someone for being fat, then they come back with a barrage of witty crippling insults about my appearance, and things I may never have noticed about myself, thereby giving me a complex for the next week, then I take the opinion that I rather opened myself up for that.

That's the problem with a lot of people - they can dish it out, but can't take it back.

That's why in this thread we have to be very careful when criticising fat people that we ourselves don't have some gaping flaw due to our own negligence that can be criticised.

Edit - I'll give an example:

A lot of people in this thread are saying that people are fat due to their own negligence. Well you could also argue that a lot of people in this thread are arrogant, ignorant and obnoxious (not talking about you, obviously) and these nasty personality traits are also down to their own negligence. The psychological equivalent of "fat", if you will. And I personally , although I'm not fat, would rather be fat than obnoxious and ignorant. At least I could lose the weight, whereas gaping personality flaws can often be a lot harder to reverse.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 316

NessEB

12

Original post by Octohedral

I completely agree that people can and should simply do something themselves about it, well before heart disease and surgery.

However, from your attitude I'm willing to bet that you have never been significantly overweight? You have to understand that it's mental as much as physical. In itself, being fat and inactive robs you of energy. Instantly cutting out sugar and fast food when you have eaten it your whole life, a process which you have to continue for at least two years to make it stable, is an immense mental effort. Quite often it has become your only source of comfort - you associate it with relaxation and happiness. It is nothing like a healthy person going on a diet. Quite often people who say they have 'tried everything' genuinely think they have. They have put the effort in, but not had the mental strength to follow through, so it has had no effect.

I'm NOT advocating leniency, or saying we should accept this as an excuse, more that if you or anyone else really wants to sort out the problem, saying 'have some self-discipline' nine times out of ten will not work. What will work, and as someone who has lost a lot of weight, I really strongly think these things should be addressed in schools, are;

- More frequent PE lessons to establish habit.
- Telling people they ARE capable of becoming fit, and explaining how it is done. Most overweight people think they have to suddenly run 5k to get fit, when they usually just need pointing in the direction of some beginners' programmes.
- Mental stamina can be built up like normal stamina - slowly. Exercises in self-discipline.
- No more stick thin models telling girls they have to lose 20lb in a month to go to their cousin's wedding. This kind of crash dieting ironically leads directly to obesity, and to the myth that a healthy diet doesn't work.

Positive encouragement always wins. :biggrin:

I've never been overweight per se, but a few years back I wanted to be muscular and ended up bulking due to a crappy diet and I put on about a stone. I lost it fairly quickly though when I started running a sh*t tonne and improved my diet.

I completely agree with the last 4 points you made. A lot more needs to be done to tackle obesity and I personally think that the NHS needs to stop offering fat removal surgery so easily.

I congratulate you on your weight loss :-)

Reply 317

Swanbow

19

Original post by Iron Lady

You're referring to the vast majority of students, not all of them are fat.

1. In all seriousness though, if they were living in poverty, I don't think they'd be able to afford pizza or chips.
2. Some people may like those foods.
3. If people use it as the easy option, it's up to them to educate and learn different recipes.
4. It's none of your business what people eat.

Yes but students tend to get a lot more exercise. Plus they are still young and their metabolism still works well.

1. Have you ever gone shopping? Feeding yourself on oven chips, cheap sausages and pizzas is a lot cheaper than eating fresh food and making meals from scratch. Unless that is you are very partial to rice and onions for dinner.
2. Granted, I myself don't mind the odd pizza every now and then. I also like to drink, doesn't mean its acceptable to have a bottle of bourbon everyday.
3. People rarely educate themselves, and children are being brought up in homes where they are being feed absolute rubbish and know nothing better. It should be taught at school during food and catering classes, the benefits of a healthy diet as well as simple recipes.
4. Just like it is none of my business how much people drink, smoke or what drugs they take? Except those life choices have a negative impact on society and lead to a variety of health and social problems, problems that my tax goes towards paying. Obesity is also becoming a huge health problem too, likely to become the number one cause of death and long term health issues in the future. To say it is none of my business is quite frankly absurd.