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Private schools should be banned!

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Reply 20
Avatar for TheGuy117
TheGuy117
OP
14
The top 14 universities listed in the first link have 28%+ private school kids, when private school kids make up about 7% of all school children. Disproportionate by a factor of 4, rising to over 6 when reaching Oxford!!! How is this fair?!
I agree with the other posters, we need to do something about state schools rather than touching the private schools. OP, I can understand you envy them because they get a better education (due to the wealth their parents have), but still, that's them and they want to better their children.

End of discussion, for goodness sake.
Reply 22
Avatar for TheGuy117
TheGuy117
OP
14
See, all these arguments were probably put forwards just before Finland pushed ahead with banning private schools and look at what happened.
Original post by James A
I agree with the other posters, we need to do something about state schools rather than touching the private schools. OP, I can understand you envy them because they get a better education (due to the wealth their parents have), but still, that's them and they want to better their children.

End of discussion, for goodness sake.

Devil's Advocacy:
The argument can be turned on its head - many say that it's outrageous that parents have the power to ruin a child's life by sending them to an extreme religious boarding school, or by homeschooling them, for example.

The question is this: Where do we draw the line on the parental rights given to parents of a child? Should they have any at all?
(edited 11 years ago)
Reply 24
Avatar for tory88
tory88
18
The fact that parents are prepared to pay what is a massive amount of money to make sure their children are not educated for free by the state is a damning indictment of state education and is completely unfair. However, there are two ways to deal with this:
1. Close down the private schools so that their pupils are forced to attend state schools, receiving a worse education as a results and so lowering overall education standards.
2. Focus on improving state schools so that people no longer feel private schools are worth all that extra money, thus improving the education of all students.

Now, to me the second option seems a lot more beneficial for everyone concerned. And for the record I was state educated, and am not saying that all state schools are bad, just that there is a lot of room for improvement (chiefly through the repromotion of grammar and trade schools and linking teachers' pay to performance).
Reply 25
Avatar for ronki23
ronki23
3
Original post by James A
I agree with the other posters, we need to do something about state schools rather than touching the private schools. OP, I can understand you envy them because they get a better education (due to the wealth their parents have), but still, that's them and they want to better their children.

End of discussion, for goodness sake.


Exactly, you're paying more for a superior service.

The Universities should not be bias though- they should select according to grades as opposed to income.

By the way, why are some private schools called public schools?

Afaik, doesn't public school mean private school for anyone who can afford it while private school is a school based on who your parents are?

I also hear how some private Universities are not good at all. London School of Business and Finance for example. Isn't the argument that with GCSEs and A levels the qualifications are regulated by the government while Degrees are not?
Original post by TheGuy117
The top 14 universities listed in the first link have 28%+ private school kids, when private school kids make up about 7% of all school children. Disproportionate by a factor of 4, rising to over 6 when reaching Oxford!!! How is this fair?!


They get better grades...

I have to agree with the sentiment that instead of dragging private schools down, shouldn't we focus on improving state schools? Both methods improve equality, in theory.
Original post by Converse Rocker
They get better grades...

I have to agree with the sentiment that instead of dragging private schools down, shouldn't we focus on improving state schools? Both methods improve equality, in theory.


Surely the parents of private school children would be the first to complain about the quality of state education, and therefore were we to impose a ban on private education, the parents of all of those children would swiftly see to it that education improved?
Original post by The Polymath
Surely the parents of private school children would be the first to complain about the quality of state education, and therefore were we to impose a ban on private education, the parents of all of those children would swiftly see to it that education improved?


I suppose that's possible mate, good point. If a parent is so objected to the quality of state education though, they will simply find the closest private school, won't they? Unless it improved pretty dam quick.
Original post by The Polymath
Surely the parents of private school children would be the first to complain about the quality of state education, and therefore were we to impose a ban on private education, the parents of all of those children would swiftly see to it that education improved?


As I said in an earlier post, pushy middle-class parents will not improve all state education, just those in their cosy commuter towns, so it just causes another inequality.
Reply 30
Avatar for TheGuy117
TheGuy117
OP
14
Original post by Converse Rocker
I suppose that's possible mate, good point. If a parent is so objected to the quality of state education though, they will simply find the closest private school, won't they? Unless it improved pretty dam quick.


Yes, because all parents can afford to "simply find the closest private school" :rolleyes: My God you are out of touch.
I'm going to mix it up a little, why don't we ban state schools - just joking. But what we could do is make funding dependant on performance, this would help improve the educational sector no end.

For those of you that disagree straight off, please google 'internalising markets'. It explains that organisations competing for funding will improve the quality of their services and offer them at a lower price. Those ineffective schools will be shut down, making room for the better performing schools to expand - improving education across the country.
Reply 32
Avatar for Munrot07
Munrot07
18
I currently go to a private school (my parents can barely afford to send me there, we are not rich at all) and I have also been to a state school so I can compare. I feel a private school doesn't give people an edge in the terms of teaching, there are some terrible teachers at my school as well as some great ones, like any school. The advantages come with small class sizes which means seeking help can be quite easy but the main advantage I have found is from non school work. Private schools are great for helping people to get into uni by knowing what to do and putting in a lot of extra time to help you and also on guiding you with work experience, carers advice and any other help you need, even non school based (such as outside hobbies). To abolish private schools is unfair especially because I would say grammar schools, which are free, provide a far better education that lots of private schools which are not free. There are reasons why private school are worse than state schools but to abolish private schools purely on a basis that it will make all education fair is not correct. Obviously this is all from my experience so is an opinion and I'm sure you all have different opinions :smile: this is mine
Original post by TheGuy117
Yes, because all parents can afford to "simply find the closest private school" :rolleyes: My God you are out of touch.


Most kids that get sent to private school don't have struggling parents. I've met a handful of privately schooled people that have parents with money troubles. You reckon parents would just 'get over' the fact that they feel the education is substandard?
(edited 11 years ago)
Original post by Hunarench95
I'm going to mix it up a little, why don't we ban state schools - just joking. But what we could do is make funding dependant on performance, this would help improve the educational sector no end.

For those of you that disagree straight off, please google 'internalising markets'. It explains that organisations competing for funding will improve the quality of their services and offer them at a lower price. Those ineffective schools will be shut down, making room for the better performing schools to expand - improving education across the country.


One issue with this is that many towns need a local school due to being fairly isolated. If their failing school was shut down, then children might have a commute to school of one hour, which seems excessive and is disruptive to home life.
Reply 35
Avatar for TheGuy117
TheGuy117
OP
14
Original post by Converse Rocker
Most kids that get sent to private school don't have struggling parents. I've met a handful of privately schooled people that have parents with money troubles. You reckon parents would just 'get over' the fact that they feel the education is substandard?

Also, I'm seeing both sides of an argument. Call me out of touch all you want pal, but I'm just the devil's advocate to your argument. People take this site so seriously, lol.


My bad, I didn't read the first part of your original post, I thought you were talking about all parents, not just the parents of previously privately educated children.
Original post by Converse Rocker
I suppose that's possible mate, good point. If a parent is so objected to the quality of state education though, they will simply find the closest private school, won't they? Unless it improved pretty dam quick.


Original post by TheGuy117
Yes, because all parents can afford to "simply find the closest private school" :rolleyes: My God you are out of touch.


Original post by Converse Rocker
Most kids that get sent to private school don't have struggling parents. I've met a handful of privately schooled people that have parents with money troubles. You reckon parents would just 'get over' the fact that they feel the education is substandard?

Also, I'm seeing both sides of an argument. Call me out of touch all you want pal, but I'm effectively the devil's advocate to your argument.


Parents sending their children to private schools must be at least slightly dissatisfied with the state system, and so if you forced them to send their children to state schools, they would be incentivised to sort out state education as quickly as possible.

Original post by PythianLegume
As I said in an earlier post, pushy middle-class parents will not improve all state education, just those in their cosy commuter towns, so it just causes another inequality.


PL makes a good point, that rich people are generally concentrated in particular areas, and would simply improve their own local schools.

However, if you were to make state education more uniform and remove this 'academy' freedom business, this would make it difficult for these parents to improve their own schools without affecting others too - they'd have to pursue more national policies like improving teacher hiring policies, changes in curriculum etc.
Original post by RP-MRU.
A better (more logical) place to start would be to improve the general standards of state schools...


Oh thanks, no-one's trying to do that at the moment.
Some points to compliment the OP:

I think that most privately schooled children aren't taught the school material better, but rather they get taught the best techniques to pass exams and to do well in interviews (been to a private school for only a year and the difference is immense. Lots of mock interviews).

Also in general, privately schooled children are more motivated than public school children simply because their parents push them harder/they have more expectations from them.

In general, I don't think that private school standards are any better than public school standards.
Original post by Munrot07
I currently go to a private school (my parents can barely afford to send me there, we are not rich at all) and I have also been to a state school so I can compare. I feel a private school doesn't give people an edge in the terms of teaching, there are some terrible teachers at my school as well as some great ones, like any school. The advantages come with small class sizes which means seeking help can be quite easy but the main advantage I have found is from non school work. Private schools are great for helping people to get into uni by knowing what to do and putting in a lot of extra time to help you and also on guiding you with work experience, carers advice and any other help you need, even non school based (such as outside hobbies). To abolish private schools is unfair especially because I would say grammar schools, which are free, provide a far better education that lots of private schools which are not free. There are reasons why private school are worse than state schools but to abolish private schools purely on a basis that it will make all education fair is not correct. Obviously this is all from my experience so is an opinion and I'm sure you all have different opinions :smile: this is mine


Grammar schools provide a better education suited to those with the talent to get into them, rather than rich parents. That's just the state system providing a suitable education for its students, which means stretching more capable students.

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