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Private schools should be banned!

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Or the state could just nationalise the education "industry" and keep the former private schools open but with no wealth discrimination.

oh and the teachers and organisations that run private schools are just gonna say okay to that?

Reply 81

username1002982

Original post by TheGuy117

Wow, either you're a troll or can't use your brain...so, the hugely disparity in private/state school results is down to private school kids being more intelligent?

Considering how many more private schools are proportionally more academically selective than state schools, it's not that unlikely. Compare the Westminster sixth form entrance process to that of an average state comp. A long provess of interviews and tests plus exemplary GCSEs are all required, compared to living in the catchment area and having so many passes.

Also, do you still stick to your post about Oxford entrants?

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Reply 82

Johnathon16

Original post by Insanity514

Private schooling does give you an advantage in gaining a place at a good university/good course that's pretty much evident. I would also say it makes much more rounded individuals. However to say it should be abolished is wrong even if it is unfair in a sense.

A private school is a business just like any other service provider like Tesco or a drycleaners. They provide you with an education and other activities in return for money. There is nothing unethical or unfair about this point. What would be unfair is stopping owners of a private school from running their "business". Yes it might be annoying that students from a rich backround are able to go to a potentially better school than the typical student but I still don't think this is unfair.

If you say this is unfair then in my opinion most of the "rich" student's entire lives are "unfair". They may wine & dine better, have better leisure activities, live a comfortable life etc etc.

If we abolish pvt schools then it would be unfair on those who want to go to one, those who can afford to go to one and those who own one. The only way to improve our education system is to better our state education.

I don't see how the Finland case has anything to do with fees. There are a bunch of factors that could determine why their system is better than ours.

I'm sorry but I fail to see where you're argument is going, you've just identified that private schools are better and gave the points for why they should be abolished, because it means our education system favours rich students, education should not be a 'business' like you say.
That is essentially why it should be abolished because having a business like education system creates a class divide due to an education based on wealth and leaves a society with very little social mobility in which many intelligent poorer students can get nowhere whilst less intelligent rich kids succeed.
I agree that the quality of state education should be vastly increased to meet the needs of all pupils, but a child with more money should not have access to a greater education simply for his money as education is not a business.

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Reply 83

UnderPost

Original post by upthegunners

The world is unfair... complaining about ain't gunna do anything.

Yeah, that's what people told the suffragettes, freedom fighters and people locked up in illegal prison camps. Yet:
- women got the vote
- Ireland, India, the US and all former Soviet States became independent
- the allied forces liberated concentration camps in WWII

Reply 84

Insanity514

Original post by Johnathon16

I wouldn't say that intelligent students at state schools get nowhere, if they are intelligent enough most of them can do as well as private school students in my experience apart from the whole Oxbridge/medicine scenario. The few who don't, it's more likely due to their quality of life/conditions at home/encouragement by parents and so on unless they go to a very poor state school which needs serious improvement.

I don't see why education can't be a business. Just like some private evening tuition classes, extra music classes (which could make wealthier students more likely to be great musicians), evening foreign language classes, pottery classes and all the other extra classes that require parents to pay good sums of money over a couple of years.

I am not a rich kid, a pretty poor one in fact so I do appreciate the advantage private schools give you in certain cases, especially when I count the proportion of private school students on my uni course compared to the proportion of private school students in the country. I still don't see this as enough reason to abolish private school though because I still consider it a service in return for money just like millions of other things out there that give rich kids an advantage in life over poorer ones.

Reply 85

Neon-Soldier32

So you're complaining about equality between the quality of education?

When your kids start school then are you going to choose the most mediocre school in your area rather than a good one because, in order for a 'truly equal educational system' everyone would need the same quality of education. Somehow I think not; you're going to choose the best school in your area.

Reply 86

username1118458

Private schools aren't even that great so I don't even see the point. It doesn't matter what school you go to it all depends on what you leave with

...and to be honest if you went to a private school it would be tougher as universities/colleges/employers would expect you to get almost excellent grades and nothing more, all A* GCSE and A-Levels. Where as if you were to go to a public school you'd probably still be able to do the exact same career path with a few A's and B's.

Reply 87

Tengo

Original post by Neon-Soldier32

That's not the point, the point is that you shouldn't be able to buy your children opportunity in an area so fundamental to development as education. It's the recurring process of the children of those who have privilege to place their children into the best possible schools; so their children make money and do the same. The process perpetuates the class system and social inequality.

Reply 88

username1114381

Original post by Neon-Soldier32

Furthermore, I think that being accepted into better universities has more to do with you as an individual: From my (state) school 2 people went to OxBridge and another to UCL but not because they are rich, but because they obtained high results for their A levels. If you have good A levels then you can get into a good university regardless of your household income or the school you attended.

But there's still no denying that a stupid person who goes to a private school is likely to fare much better in life than a stupid person who goes to a state school.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 89

username1114381

Original post by Insanity514

If we abolish pvt schools then it would be unfair on those who want to go to one, those who can afford to go to one and those who own one.

How on earth can you say that and completely ignore the majority of kids in this country (90%) who weren't born into rich enough families who also 'want to go to one', but can't because that's simply out of the question? Are you a Daily Mail reader?

You think it's right to preserve the cycle of snobs generation after generation?

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 90

tufc

Original post by Student-Andrew

People shouldn't have to pay for the top education, tell me is this fair? That whoever has more money is more likely to have better education than those without?

But whilst removing private schools would make state schools the 'top education' available, it would be doing so by destroying the top, instead of improving the bottom. That's a race to the bottom.

Reply 91

Johnathon16

Original post by Neon-Soldier32

Yes but what if you don't have the spare thousands to pay for said school?

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Reply 92

Will's mum

So I can't take my kids skiing in Canada, or scuba diving off the Great Barrier Reef, or to eat at the best restaurants because not everyone can afford to and we have to keep the experiences of all kids the same right? All of these things are part of an education, its not just what you learn in a classroom. If we were to generalise that kids in private schools come from families who have a higher disposable income then they are bound to have more life experiences. Imagine two kids in the same school (state or private) doing a geography exam, one has traveled the world seeing examples of physical features and the other has not, who has a better understanding? You cannot change anything by outlawing independent education, 'equality' is an illusion.
Any of you that are blessed with children now or in the future will do the very best you possibly can for them, that's what people do, you cannot alter the fact that people get to spend their money on whatever they want to, and people spend according to their values. I know people who don't have a spare penny to scratch their arses with because all their money goes on their kids education, and why shouldn't they.
I cannot even believe that someone used the word 'snobs' to describe those who choose, for whatever reason, to privately educate their children!

Reply 93

Jam'

On a more macro level you're obviously criticising capitalism.

Targeting schools to push forward this view seems like a weak place to start if I'm honest

Reply 94

username1118458

Original post by tufc

But whilst removing private schools would make state schools the 'top education' available, it would be doing so by destroying the top, instead of improving the bottom. That's a race to the bottom.

Who says you can't get top education or top grades in a comprehensive school? You don't need to go to a private school to do well.

The school I go to is comprehensive, almost everyone leaves with 8-10 A*/A grades. It may not be a private school but that doesn't mean the school isn't strict on who they allow in and how they teach.

Last year no one left my school with anything under B grades. Everyone got all B grades or above.

Reply 95

lucasthepoet

Everyone should have access to the same quality of education, private or not.

There is no issue with private schools as long as state funded school students are getting the same quality of education, support and oppurtunities.
However, this is not the case, as there is a definite higher quality of resources available in private schools that is not available to the those who cannot afford it, hence the inequality.

I don't give a toss if private schools exist, if the wealthy want to separate their kids from other students and lock them in a bubble of wealth, that's fine. As long as the government makes sure that "all" British citizens have the same right and access to high quality education and oppurtunities despite their finacial status.

Then again it's just the failure of a british government to blame, going down the drain as usual.

Reply 96

Insanity514

Original post by JamesTheCool

No I don't read the Daily Mail. I don't think anyone wants to preserve this like a tradition and that's not what's happening. I don't care who goes to private schools rich kids or poorer kids who get scholarships so no I don't want to preserve the snob trend but unfortunately that's the way it is.

I think its down to the state education system to bucker up because in my experience state schools are generally pretty crap. State education has a lot of room for improvement and I would support the opening of more selective grammars for the brighter pupils too. I don't think we should blame the failures of the state education on private schooling.

Reply 97

username1114381

Original post by Insanity514

And it will continue being that way if people just accept that and carry on having a pessimistic attitude about this. It's a bull**** philosophy and it doesn't have to be the reality if we do something about it. Pessimism hinders progress.

If you take away the privilege of private education, it gives everybody else that boost of confidence, making people think 'anything is possible', and those who aren't financially advantaged are more likely to end up at a university that reflects their actual ability rather than their background of wealth, then everyone has an equality of opportunity, which is what fairness is. It removes the stereotype that 'it takes money to make money; rich people always do well', which is completely wrong yet widely accepted, unless we get off our laptops and make a difference to the way people think...