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The Proof is Trivial!

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Reply 680
Original post by Zephyr1011
Really? How did they used to say it? And how did they distinguish between a request to prove something and a statement of fact?


You know how in textbooks these days have a set of exercises? Imagine those, except any question which asked you to prove something would just look like a statement of fact. I think it was to save space and paper which these days isn't as a big a deal
Original post by shamika
You know how in textbooks these days have a set of exercises? Imagine those, except any question which asked you to prove something would just look like a statement of fact. I think it was to save space and paper which these days isn't as a big a deal


So it was more like "verify the following: "This then that", "That then this""?
Reply 682
Original post by metaltron
I did a sneaky check on wolfram before I posted to check whether 'a' gave three distinct solutions... it did!

One thing that bothers me about the question is that it asks to find the sum of the values, when there seems to be only one value.


Hahaha sneaky :colone:

Yeah :confused: I suppose we shall see! (I'll let you know what the problem turned out to be)

Original post by Mladenov

Nope. As the expression, an=mna_{n}=m\sqrt{n} is not correct, the subsequent equalities in your solution are also incorrect. And finally, your conclusion is not true.

Oh hmm... :s-smilie: But if you were to suppose it tended to a finite limit why is it incorrect to suppose that annm\frac{a_{n}}{\sqrt{n}} \to m as nn \to \infty:confused:? (and then proceed in construction a contradiction)
Original post by Mladenov
Really, I do not know. After the first exercise the authors said: In subsequent propositions, we shall omit the words "Prove that" and "Show that", and thus stating all problems as theorems.

Let me suggest another lovely functional equation. It seems as though you are the only one who enjoys doing functional eqs.

Problem 99**

Find all continuous functions f(x)f(x), defined for all x>1x>1, which satisfy f(xy)=xf(y)+yf(x)f(xy)=xf(y)+yf(x), for all x,y>1x,y >1.


If you don't know why a convention is used, why use it?

And I like functional equations too, I'm just nowhere near as good at them. The only widely applicable way of solving them I know is trying special values, like x=y, x=1, x=0x=y,\ x=1,\ x=0 etc.

This problem looks a lot like product rule, although I'm not sure if that has any significance
If you take the case x=yx=y, then f(x2)=2xf(x)f(x^2)=2xf(x).

If f(x)=ax+cf(x)=ax+c, then f(xy)=axy+c=2axy+(x+y)cf(xy)=axy+c=2axy+(x+y)c. As both x and y are positive integers greater than one, the only possible solution is if both constants are 0. Therefore a possible solution is f(x)=0f(x)=0

This is about as far as I've gotten
Reply 684
I got 99 problems but my bitch ain't one

Spoiler



Problem 100*/**

Rigorously prove that the area of a rectangle of side lengths pp and qq is pqpq (for real numbers p,qp, q).
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Jkn
I got 99 problems but my bitch ain't one

Spoiler



Problem 99*/**

Rigorously prove that the area of a rectangle of side lengths pp and qq is pqpq (for real numbers p,qp, q).


a) Surely it depends upon the units used?

b) Does using integration count? Or is that circular reasoning?
Reply 686
Original post by Zephyr1011
a) Surely it depends upon the units used?

b) Does using integration count? Or is that circular reasoning?

Yes. You will need to define the concept of area in your proof.

That would form a circular argument I do believe. Do note that in an elementary proof of this type, using calculus is a little bit mad (and one may argue that in order to be rigorous you would have to include a proof, not only of the fundamental theorem of calculus, but of this operation in a 2 dimension plane being equivalent to area when considering positive values.)

Btw, by rigorous I don't mean for it to be of a university level of rigour, but just explanative justification.
Original post by Mladenov

Problem 99**

Find all continuous functions f(x)f(x), defined for all x>1x>1, which satisfy f(xy)=xf(y)+yf(x)f(xy)=xf(y)+yf(x), for all x,y>1x,y >1.


The best I can do at this hour of the night:
()f(xy)=f(xy)    f(x)x=f(y)f(y)yy(*)f(xy)=f(xy') \iff \dfrac{f(x)}{x}=-\dfrac{f(y)-f(y')}{y-y'}
let y=y+ϵy'=y+\epsilon and let epsilon tend to zero giving:
f(x)x=df(y)dy\dfrac{f(x)}{x}=-\dfrac{df(y)}{dy}. Continuity guarantees existence.
let y=x:
f(x)x=df(x)dxf(x)=Ax\dfrac{f(x)}{x}=-\dfrac{df(x)}{dx}\Rightarrow f(x)=-Ax
but f(x2)=2xf(x)A=0f(x^2)=2xf(x) \Rightarrow A=0
so f identically zero is only option.
I suspect there's a flaw as calculus is very often fickle.
Original post by Jkn
Yes. You will need to define the concept of area in your proof.

That would form a circular argument I do believe. Do note that in an elementary proof of this type, using calculus is a little bit mad (and one may argue that in order to be rigorous you would have to include a proof, not only of the fundamental theorem of calculus, but of this operation in a 2 dimension plane being equivalent to area when considering positive values.)

Btw, by rigorous I don't mean for it to be of a university level of rigour, but just explanative justification.


I'm not sure how exactly to define area, without some starting point along the lines of "let the area of a 1x1 square be 1". Personally I always thought of the formula for the area of a rectangle as axiomatic. Unless of course we are allowed to state that area is proportional to both the length and width, in which case it becomes trivial.
Reply 689
Original post by Jkn
What makes you think that? :P


Me being stupid, I fogot about double roots.
Reply 690
Original post by Jkn

Oh hmm... :s-smilie: But if you were to suppose it tended to a finite limit why is it incorrect to suppose that annm\frac{a_{n}}{\sqrt{n}} \to m as nn \to \infty:confused:? (and then proceed in construction a contradiction)


Well. If we take limnann=m\displaystyle \lim_{n\to \infty} \frac{a_{n}}{\sqrt{n}}=m, from the recurrent relation, we obtain limnan+1n=limnann+limn1ann\displaystyle \lim_{n\to \infty} \frac{a_{n+1}}{\sqrt{n}}=\lim_{n\to \infty} \frac{a_{n}}{\sqrt{n}}+\lim_{n\to \infty} \frac{1}{a_{n}\sqrt{n}}, which is m=mm=m.
I doubt that you can obtain a contradiction for this part.

Original post by Zephyr1011
If you don't know why a convention is used, why use it?

I liked it; hence I use it.:biggrin:

Original post by Zephyr1011
And I like functional equations too, I'm just nowhere near as good at them. The only widely applicable way of solving them I know is trying special values, like x=y, x=1, x=0x=y,\ x=1,\ x=0 etc.

This problem looks a lot like product rule, although I'm not sure if that has any significance
If you take the case x=yx=y, then f(x2)=2xf(x)f(x^2)=2xf(x).

If f(x)=ax+cf(x)=ax+c, then f(xy)=axy+c=2axy+(x+y)cf(xy)=axy+c=2axy+(x+y)c. As both x and y are positive integers greater than one, the only possible solution is if both constants are 0. Therefore a possible solution is f(x)=0f(x)=0
This is about as far as I've gotten


There are hundreds of techniques when it comes to functional equations. It is annoying that there are no books on functional eqs; I could think of 1-2 really good for olympiad problems.
This is only one possible solution and there is an infinite number of them.

Original post by ben-smith
The best I can do at this hour of the night:
()f(xy)=f(xy)    f(x)x=f(y)f(y)yy(*)f(xy)=f(xy') \iff \dfrac{f(x)}{x}=-\dfrac{f(y)-f(y')}{y-y'}
let y=y+ϵy'=y+\epsilon and let epsilon tend to zero giving:
f(x)x=df(y)dy\dfrac{f(x)}{x}=-\dfrac{df(y)}{dy}. Continuity guarantees existence.
let y=x:
f(x)x=df(x)dxf(x)=Ax\dfrac{f(x)}{x}=-\dfrac{df(x)}{dx}\Rightarrow f(x)=-Ax
but f(x2)=2xf(x)A=0f(x^2)=2xf(x) \Rightarrow A=0
so f identically zero is only option.
I suspect there's a flaw as calculus is very often fickle.


Yup, you are right, there is a flaw.:tongue:
Your first equation may not be true for yyy \not= y', since it is possible that ff is injective.
Secondly, continuity does not imply differentiability.
Reply 691
Original post by Mladenov
Well. If we take limnann=m\displaystyle \lim_{n\to \infty} \frac{a_{n}}{\sqrt{n}}=m, from the recurrent relation, we obtain limnan+1n=limnann+limn1ann\displaystyle \lim_{n\to \infty} \frac{a_{n+1}}{\sqrt{n}}=\lim_{n\to \infty} \frac{a_{n}}{\sqrt{n}}+\lim_{n\to \infty} \frac{1}{a_{n}\sqrt{n}}, which is m=mm=m.
I doubt that you can obtain a contradiction for this part.

Why is it not valid to omit the limit notation if accompanied with the assumption that n is very large? (sorry if these are stupid questions)

There are hundreds of techniques when it comes to functional equations. It is annoying that there are no books on functional eqs

I've never really tried functional equations questions. For me these methods seem non-rigourous (not justifying that all solutions are found). Similar to curve sketching :s-smilie:
Reply 692
Just realised I never posted that alternate solution I thought of for problem 88. It seems way too elaborate and, of course, I did it the other way initially, but it seems creative so I'll post it for people's interest...

Solution 88 (2)

AM-GM yields P(N)=max(a1a2...an)max((a1+a2+...+ann)n)=max((Nn)n)P(N)=max(a_1a_2...a_n) \leq max((\frac{a_1+a_2+...+a_n}{n})^n) = max((\frac{N}{n})^n).

Let y=(Nn)ny=(\frac{N}{n})^n. Substituting x=Nnx=\frac{N}{n} yields y=(x1x)Ny=(x^{\frac{1}{x}})^N. Noting that N is a constant we note that it is easy shown that this function has a stationary point at x=e and that this point is a maximum. Hence we deduce that a1a2...ana_1a_2...a_n is at a maximum when n is chosen such that n=Nen = \frac{N}{e}.

This implies two possibilities. Defining [.] as the greatest integer smaller than or equal to "." (arithmetic function) we have P(N)=a1a2...a[Ne]P(N)=a_1a_2...a_{[\frac{N}{e}]} or P(N)=a1a2...a[Ne]+1P(N)=a_1a_2...a_{[\frac{N}{e}]+1} (as the maximum when specifying integer solutions must occur either with the integers above or below).

Assume there exists a subset of the values of a (denoted by aia_i) such that ai>[e]+1=3a_i > [e]+1=3. This implies that this particular subset (of size p) is such that a1a2...ap>3pa_1a_2...a_p>3^p which implies 3p<max(a1+a2+...+ap)<3p3^p<max({a_1+a_2+...+a_p}) < 3p however this is a contradiction as it can be easily shown that the function f(p) defined such that f(p)=3p3pf(p)=3^p-3p is greater than or equal to zero for all real p (and hence the positive integers). Therefore, as no such subset can exist (for all p), the optimal value for a is "[e]+1"=3"[e]+1"=3 and clearly the second most optimal value would be 2 (notice that we need not consider any values greater than that of the optimal, as has had been shown. Note also that we could have guessed that 3 was optimal as it is closer to e than 2).

As every positive integer can be expressed as the sum of 2s and 3s except for 1 we get the following result for P(N)...

For some positive integer m, P(N)=1,N=1.P(N)=3N3,N=3m.P(N)=22.3N31,N=3m+1.P(N)=2.3N3,N=3m+2.P(N)=1, N=1. P(N)=3^{\frac{N}{3}},N=3m. P(N)=2^2.3^{\frac{N}{3}-1},N=3m+1. P(N)=2.3^{\frac{N}{3}}, N=3m+2.

(I was going to leave my answer in terms of the arithmetic function (i.e. all one case) but it seemed tedious).
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 693
Original post by Jkn
Why is it not valid to omit the limit notation if accompanied with the assumption that n is very large? (sorry if these are stupid questions)


There are two possibilities:
You write either: limnann=m\displaystyle \lim_{n \to \infty} \frac{a_{n}}{\sqrt{n}}=m, or: for each positive number ϵ\epsilon there exists NN such that for all n>Nn > N, annm<ϵ\displaystyle |\frac{a_{n}}{\sqrt{n}}-m|<\epsilon.
This is the concept, you have annm\displaystyle \frac{a_{n}}{\sqrt{n}} \to m as nn \to \infty, not ann=m\displaystyle \frac{a_{n}}{\sqrt{n}}=m for all sufficiently large nn; in other words, for all sufficiently large nn, ann\displaystyle \frac{a_{n}}{\sqrt{n}} is arbitrarily close to mm but it is not equal to mm.

Original post by Jkn
I've never really tried functional equations questions. For me these methods seem non-rigourous (not justifying that all solutions are found). Similar to curve sketching :s-smilie:


I shall post my solution to problem 97 in order to demonstrate rigorous solution to functional equation.:tongue: Although, I would say that Lord of the Flies' solution is perfectly justified.

Solution 100

Define SS be the unit square with area 11. Let A(R)A(R) be the area of the rectangle RR. Obviously, the function AA is completely additive, and if RR' is isomorphic to RR'', we have A(R)=A(R)A(R')=A(R'').
It is clear that every square which has side of length 11 is isomorphic to SS.
Suppose RR is a rectangle with sides of length mm and nn, where m,nZ+m,n \in \mathbb{Z^{+}}. We partition RR into unit squares. Hence A(R)=m×n×A(S)=m×nA(R)=m\times n \times A(S)=m\times n.
Next, let RR be a square with side of length 1n\displaystyle \frac{1}{n}, where nn is a positive integer. We partition the unit square into n2n^{2} squares with side of length 1n\displaystyle \frac{1}{n}, which are isomorphic to RR. So, n2×A(R)=1n^{2} \times A(R)=1.
We are ready to prove the formula for rational numbers. Suppose we have RR with sides of length n1m\displaystyle \frac{n_{1}}{m}, and n2m\displaystyle \frac{n_{2}}{m}. We partition this rectangle into n1×n2n_{1} \times n_{2} squares with side of length 1m\displaystyle \frac{1}{m}. Hence A(R)=(n1×n2)×1m2\displaystyle A(R) = (n_{1} \times n_{2})\times \frac{1}{m^{2}}.
Finally, let RR be a rectangle with sides of length xx and yy. I suppose that both xx and yy are irrational. Let xkx_{k} be a sequence of rational numbers such that xxk<10kx-x_{k} < 10^{-k}. We define yky_{k} similarly. Now, let RkR'_{k} be the sequence of rectangles with side of length xkx_{k} and yky_{k}. Also RkR''_{k} is the sequence of rectangles with sides of length xk+10kx_{k}+10^{-k}, yk+10ky_{k}+10^{-k}.
Notice A(Rk)<A(R)<A(Rk)A(R'_{k}) < A(R) < A(R''_{k}). Therefore A(R)=x×yA(R)= x \times y.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 694
Original post by Mladenov
There are two possibilities:
You write either: limnann=m\displaystyle \lim_{n \to \infty} \frac{a_{n}}{\sqrt{n}}=m, or: for each positive number ϵ\epsilon there exists NN such that for all n>Nn > N, annm<ϵ\displaystyle |\frac{a_{n}}{\sqrt{n}}-m|<\epsilon.
This is the concept, you have annm\displaystyle \frac{a_{n}}{\sqrt{n}} \to m as nn \to \infty, not ann=m\displaystyle \frac{a_{n}}{\sqrt{n}}=m for all sufficiently large nn; in other words, for all sufficiently large nn, ann\displaystyle \frac{a_{n}}{\sqrt{n}} is arbitrarily close to mm but it is not equal to mm.

Thanks for taking the time to explain that. It makes sense now. :tongue:

I shall post my solution to problem 97 in order to demonstrate rigorous solution to functional equation.:tongue: Although, I would say that Lord of the Flies' solution is perfectly justified.

Solution 100

Okay, sounds good. A won't ask you to explain the methods to me because they don't look too taxing and so, if I have time, I will look them up! When you say rigorous methods do you mean something like induction? (because I can see how you could use that to prove something true for all rationals)

Your solution is excellent to my knowledge. I posted it in the hope that people would notice that consideration must be given to irrationality and I was glad to see you had considered this in ample detail.

More problems please! :biggrin:

Btw, have you done your team selection test yet?

---------------

I'm gonna be a complete **** and post a problem I can't solve (and have no intention of trying to :lol:)

Problem 101**

Prove that (27(x2+y2+z2)4)14cycxx+y(27(xy+yz+zx)4)14\displaystyle(\frac{27(x^2+y^2+z^2)}{4})^{\frac{1}{4}} \geq \sum_{cyc}\frac{x}{\sqrt{x+y}} \geq (\frac{27(xy+yz+zx)}{4})^{\frac{1}{4}} for positive real numbers x, y and z.

Spoiler


(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 695
Original post by metaltron
Solution 90

Spoiler



Right! I have finally found the golden nugget! :biggrin:

Solution 90 (part 2)

We require that there are 3 distinct real roots. We must conclude, based on the fact that the polynomial is of degree 4 (i.e. cannot be reduced to a polynomial of a lower degree) and that all imaginary roots come in pairs (i.e. theory of conjugate pairing), that there are 4 real roots. From this the deduction has been made that there exists exactly one repeated root. This is correct.

What isn't correct is that we have assumed that, in the quadratic factorisation found, the repeated roots must be that of those in the same quadratic. This is incorrect! (I believe siklos addresses issues like this in two different questions in A.P.I.M.)

One way to address this is to find all other ways in which to factories the polynomial. Allow me to propose another strategy. Starting from the factorisation found in your solution, we deduce two possibilities either the roots are shared between one of the polynomials (leading to a=23+419100a=\frac{23+4\sqrt{19}}{100} only) or one root from one is equal to one root from another. There is only one such root for which this could occur and the other roots must be equal and opposite (there are a number of strategies that could be used but we only need to find one so observation is sufficient). A keen eye will spot that both quadratics have the root x=0 when 1-a=0 (i.e. a=1).

Substituting this in yields x2(x+3)(x3)=0x^2(x+3)(x-3)=0 and hence, for a=1, the quadratic has roots x=0, x=3 and x=-3. Therefore a=123+419100\sum a = \frac{123+4\sqrt{19}}{100}. QED.

Spoiler

Original post by Jkn
Right! I have finally found the golden nugget! :biggrin:

Solution 90 (part 2)

We require that there are 3 distinct real roots. We must conclude, based on the fact that the polynomial is of degree 4 (i.e. cannot be reduced to a polynomial of a lower degree) and that all imaginary roots come in pairs (i.e. theory of conjugate pairing), that there are 4 real roots. From this the deduction has been made that there exists exactly one repeated root. This is correct.

What isn't correct is that we have assumed that, in the quadratic factorisation found, the repeated roots must be that of those in the same quadratic. This is incorrect! (I believe siklos addresses issues like this in two different questions in A.P.I.M.)

One way to address this is to find all other ways in which to factories the polynomial. Allow me to propose another strategy. Starting from the factorisation found in your solution, we deduce two possibilities either the roots are shared between one of the polynomials (leading to a=23+419100a=\frac{23+4\sqrt{19}}{100} only) or one root from one is equal to one root from another. There is only one such root for which this could occur and the other roots must be equal and opposite (there are a number of strategies that could be used but we only need to find one so observation is sufficient). A keen eye will spot that both quadratics have the root x=0 when 1-a=0 (i.e. a=1).

Substituting this in yields x2(x+3)(x3)=0x^2(x+3)(x-3)=0 and hence, for a=1, the quadratic has roots x=0, x=3 and x=-3. Therefore a=123+419100\sum a = \frac{123+4\sqrt{19}}{100}. QED.

Spoiler



Ok, I will add the last part to my post too. That site brilliant.org is fantastic! When you complete a whole week's solution can you have a go at the next level or do I have to wait until next week now?
Reply 697
Original post by metaltron
Ok, I will add the last part to my post too. That site brilliant.org is fantastic! When you complete a whole week's solution can you have a go at the next level or do I have to wait until next week now?

Okay awesome. I hope people besides those who post are doing/trying some of these problems. It's such an awesome problem-solution collection that has been created :smile: We've completely gone into olympiad territory now though. Would be really nice to have some more like problem 66 don't you think? I was so chuffed with that one! It's so nice you the irrationality of pi is a consequence of the convergence of the maclaurin expansion for e :biggrin:

Unfortunately not! I managed to complete all the number theory and geo/combinatorics last week on level 4 and so found out that way :lol:

My advice to you if you have just started on the site is to try and work out what level you want to be at and make sure you don't rush their "initial test" (take time and get some paper!) What I did was to fire through the first 3 questions on each test and then pretty much guessed the 4th on each one. This resulted in me being placed in level 3 for both olympiad sets (though working your way up is good training). I am such that you would be suited to starting on level 4 or 5 so make sure you do well on the test!

Also note that the format/style of the questions are not similar to british olympiad questions but are very similar to the US's.
Original post by Jkn
Okay awesome. I hope people besides those who post are doing/trying some of these problems. It's such an awesome problem-solution collection that has been created :smile: We've completely gone into olympiad territory now though. Would be really nice to have some more like problem 66 don't you think? I was so chuffed with that one! It's so nice you the irrationality of pi is a consequence of the convergence of the maclaurin expansion for e :biggrin:

Unfortunately not! I managed to complete all the number theory and geo/combinatorics last week on level 4 and so found out that way :lol:

My advice to you if you have just started on the site is to try and work out what level you want to be at and make sure you don't rush their "initial test" (take time and get some paper!) What I did was to fire through the first 3 questions on each test and then pretty much guessed the 4th on each one. This resulted in me being placed in level 3 for both olympiad sets (though working your way up is good training). I am such that you would be suited to starting on level 4 or 5 so make sure you do well on the test!

Also note that the format/style of the questions are not similar to british olympiad questions but are very similar to the US's.


I'm on Level 3 as well, after making your mistake yesterday. I think it might help mastering Level 3 on Combinatorics though.

May I ask what cyc on the bottom of a sigma means?
Original post by metaltron
.

May I ask what cyc on the bottom of a sigma means?


I too want to know this :biggrin:

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