5 year old upsets homosexuals, thought police called in

Original post by Thriftworks

What he is saying is that you have no right to impose your beliefs upon others and force them to think in a certain way.
What you can do is present an argument and let people make a choice. For example is someone wishes to express homophobic views they should be allowed to express their views and you have the right to disagree but not to force them to be quiet.

Should we also tolerate racist or misogynistic language in primary schools?

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Reply 82

Hopple

18

Original post by mmmpie

It's excessive to have teachers say "don't say that, it's not nice" and be prepared to explain why? No wonder discipline is such a problem in schools.

Kids will call each other names, it would be excessive to clamp down on it with the same reaction as they did for calling someone's shoes 'gay'. "Your shoes are stupid", "Your shoes are ugly", "Your shoes are dumb" etc. This was never a problem with regards to homosexuals, it was an issue a child took with someone or that someone's shoes.

Reply 83

thesabbath

OP

Original post by mmmpie

Should we also tolerate racist or misogynistic language in primary schools?

apparently not :rolleyes:

i'm sure the blacks appreciate your hijacking of their "rights" crusade as much as homosexuals appreciate paedophiles tagging onto theirs, btw

Data from 90 councils detail 87,915 ‘racist incidents’ at primary and secondary schools between 2007 and 2011.
The number of recorded incidents would be substantially higher if the picture was replicated across all 200 local authorities in England, Wales and Scotland.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2148621/Britains-schools-record-115-racist-incidents-day-teachers-admit-seen-pupils-abused.html

A boy of seven who asked a friend about the colour of his skin was told his comment was ‘racist’.
Elliott Dearlove asked a five-year-old boy in the playground whether he was ‘brown because he was from Africa’.
His mother, Hayley White, 29, was contacted by her son’s school saying he had been at the centre of a ‘racist incident’.

Reply 84

Kiss

Original post by mmmpie

Should we also tolerate racist or misogynistic language in primary schools?

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Should 5 year olds be arrested for saying a certain word in the playground?

Reply 85

Original post by Hopple

Kids will call each other names, it would be excessive to clamp down on it with the same reaction as they did for calling someone's shoes 'gay'. "Your shoes are stupid", "Your shoes are ugly", "Your shoes are dumb" etc. This was never a problem with regards to homosexuals, it was an issue a child took with someone or that someone's shoes.

The bit about the five year old and the shoes was made up by the press apparently, not that it really matters. Whether because of a particular incident, or just principle, a school became aware of the issues around homophobic language and bullying and invited the foremost organization in the country that deals with the issue to come and brief their staff on it. This was never about shoes.

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Reply 86

username927016

20

Gay means happy right? :erm:

Reply 87

Original post by Kiss

Should 5 year olds be arrested for saying a certain word in the playground?

Have any been? Ever?

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Reply 88

Kiss

You have such an ironic username......

But to return to the point, no I'm not trolling. Of course you'll label it that since you're not prepared to debate with someone - it's a typical go-to tactic when someone doesn't want to engage.

Original post by mmmpie

Have any been? Ever?

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No, but knowing someone like you who'd happily slap bans on what people can and can't say, I'd wager you'd want to do likewise.

Reply 89

Original post by Kiss

You have such an ironic username......

But to return to the point, no I'm not trolling. Of course you'll label it that since you're not prepared to debate with someone - it's a typical go-to tactic when someone doesn't want to engage.

No, but knowing someone like you who'd happily slap bans on what people can and can't say, I'd wager you'd want to do likewise.

Do I? That must be why I keep going around telling people they have a right to free expression, and arguing that hate speech and public order laws go too far...

Making up **** in an attempt to provoke a reaction is the definition of trolling.

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Reply 90

Hopple

18

Original post by mmmpie

The bit about the five year old and the shoes was made up by the press apparently, not that it really matters. Whether because of a particular incident, or just principle, a school became aware of the issues around homophobic language and bullying and invited the foremost organization in the country that deals with the issue to come and brief their staff on it. This was never about shoes.

This was never about homosexuals. There is no way a child saw another child being attracted to someone of the same sex and decided to tease them for it. As a word, 'gay' has several meanings - the one meaning 'bad' or vague negative is the one used by the children, who also happen to use other nonsensical words like 'wicked'/'sick' for good if I remember correctly, and many more besides going by the gibberish I hear on the bus.

Reply 91

Original post by Hopple

This was never about homosexuals. There is no way a child saw another child being attracted to someone of the same sex and decided to tease them for it. As a word, 'gay' has several meanings - the one meaning 'bad' or vague negative is the one used by the children, who also happen to use other nonsensical words like 'wicked'/'sick' for good if I remember correctly, and many more besides going by the gibberish I hear on the bus.

Like many people, I identify as gay. It is not some casual tag, it's the handle that I and much of society use for a major aspect of my identity. For the word to regain a perjorative sense creates a connotation that everything it attaches to is bad. To teach that this is not a proper sense of the word negates that connotation.

So far as I know, nobody uses "wicked" or "sick" to define themselves.

Reply 92

thesabbath

OP

its only offensive to milksops or pantywaists, what happened to gay pride?

Reply 93

peter12345

This whole hate of "gay means bad" is bull****. Black has meant "evil" for how long? Left has meant "clumsy" for how long? Girl has meant "timid" for how long? Words can have different meaning you know.

Reply 94

tufc

14

Original post by mmmpie

The government uses the estimate of 6-8%, based on a meta-analysis commissioned when the Equality Act was being drafted. It seems a reasonable estimate based on my experience.

What they did was bring in an organization to brief teachers on how to address specific issues. Where did you get the idea that this has anything to do with sex education?

It's excessive to have teachers say "don't say that, it's not nice" and be prepared to explain why? No wonder discipline is such a problem in schools.

I'm sorry, but I really don't see what your problem is.

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Well, take the issues of gay marriage and gay adoption for example. Both are very politically contentious issues - and if Stonewall are called in, young children are going to be told explicitly that both are acceptable. Whether one sees them as acceptable or not, it seems to go without saying that young children should be taught how to critically evaluate such issues and make up their own minds, not flat-out told that they're right.

Reply 95

Original post by tufc

Well, take the issues of gay marriage and gay adoption for example. Both are very politically contentious issues - and if Stonewall are called in, young children are going to be told explicitly that both are acceptable. Whether one sees them as acceptable or not, it seems to go without saying that young children should be taught how to critically evaluate such issues and make up their own minds, not flat-out told that they're right.

Well, that's not really relevant to what's happened here.

That aside, it seems you're keen on encouraging critical thinking on an issue without actually presenting the arguments, which surely misses the point of doing so in the first place. Adoption by same-sex couples (which isn't particularly contentious - it's been going on for quite a while without any great issues political or practical) is a very complex matter which draws upon vast bodies of evidence and theory from many different fields, so is probably beyond primary school - although it might be interesting to see what five year olds think of the idea of having two mums or two dads. I don't see why the same-sex marriage argument can't be made accessible to primary school children though, and I'd be very happy to see children engaging with such issues.

Reply 96

Kiss