Is it wrong that patients can refuse to be treated by a certain gender?

I know that! I'm a HCA now but will be starting at med school this year. I'm glad my washing days are almost over.

Trust me, it can go wrong.

I know that! I'm a HCA now but will be starting at med school this year. I'm glad my washing days are almost over.

Trust me, it can go wrong.

I'm still intrigued as to how! Plus, surely you can just be taught what to avoid etc, which is fairly straightforward, similar to learning intimate examinations. The point is that simply being in possession of one type of genitals doesn't make you naturally better at dealing with them. Most male medical students have no more clue than the female ones about doing a testicular exam. Female medical students physically cannot do a bimanual or speculum examination on themselves, so it's not like either sex has an "advantage" when it comes to learning them.

To further the obs & gynae comparison, some people might argue that as a woman, I might have more empathy with someone complaining of period problems, or dealing with childbirth. But if I have completely problem-free periods (or none at all thanks to hormonal contraception), and have never given birth, why am I automatically either more empathic or knowledgeable than a man?

I understand if people feel more comfortable with someone of the same sex, but really disagree with the idea that simply being one sex or the other automatically makes you better or more experienced when it comes to medical matters.

Me too! Congrats on getting into medical school btw.

I was considering getting a HCA post during this gap year - wasn't to be.

Lol! One of the things that put me off too.

I know that! I'm a HCA now but will be starting at med school this year. I'm glad my washing days are almost over.

Trust me, it can go wrong.

Is it somewhat immoral that patients can refuse to be treated by a specific gender? The obvious example is gynaecology or obstetrics where male doctors would be less welcomed, is this wrong? And what about if this then became more common in other areas of health care?

Should we support patient choice? Or is there a line where discrimination kicks in?

Speaking as a young male working in nursing, I am perfectly happy for patients who are uncomfortable with my providing personal care to them due to my gender to voice their concerns. I have voluntarily compromised my own practice on occasion in the interests of maintaining the privacy and dignity of certain patients, despite no objections having been raised. The notion of a patient being quietly mortified about me providing personal care to them is infinitely more disheartening to me than having that care refused for being male. All of this aside, I have very rarely experienced opposition and would like to hope that it is derivative of me working very hard to maintain that privacy and dignity which some fear a male nurse will not uphold.

I should make the point, however, that male nurses are too much of a minority to often give male patients a 'choice' of gender in their care. It is impossible to deny that female patients are far more privileged in this one respect of nursing care.



Without wishing to be derogatory, I find this sentiment truly terrifying. Basic intimate care is the same irregardless of the patient's gender, and isn't difficult to ascertain even by asking the patient politely for guidance as to their wishes. If it is such a large prospect to you of washing 'going wrong' with patients of the opposite gender, what exactly is going to be simpler with the intimate procedures you will be required to learn as part of medical training?

I do my best, of course. To be honest I rarely have to do it. It's not a matter of intimacy but of anatomy.

I should probably learn more about vaginas.

Without wishing to be derogatory, I find this sentiment truly terrifying. Basic intimate care is the same irregardless of the patient's gender, and isn't difficult to ascertain even by asking the patient politely for guidance as to their wishes. If it is such a large prospect to you of washing 'going wrong' with patients of the opposite gender, what exactly is going to be simpler with the intimate procedures you will be required to learn as part of medical training?

It isn't discrimination if it is to do with the patient feeling uncomfortable, discrimination is defined as "The unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, esp. on the grounds of race, age, or sex."
I think wanting to feel comfortable around your doctor especially during medical examinations is a justifiable reason to want a specific gender doctor. Disallowing a patient to ask for a specific gender doctor could also lead to patients not going to the doctors at all, there are many justifiable reasons for someone to feel uncomfortable being exposed or examined by a male or female doctor, for example rape or abuse. To not give men and women an option in who examines them could make the medical process more painful than unnecessary.

Is it somewhat immoral that patients can refuse to be treated by a specific gender? The obvious example is gynaecology or obstetrics where male doctors would be less welcomed, is this wrong? And what about if this then became more common in other areas of health care?

Should we support patient choice? Or is there a line where discrimination kicks in?

Would it be acceptable if a woman refused to be treated by a black doctor? Maybe they were racist and therefore uncomfortable around people of different ethnicities?

You must have a fairly low terror threshold then. Relax. A young male HCA with limited experience in this area and uncertainty over whether there's some female hygiene etiquette he's unaware of is not terrifying. Should he have asked the patient/some member of staff? Possibly so, but you're being dramatic. As for your last sentence, well, intimate procedures will be taught and subsequently supervised.

I think you misunderstand me. I am not saying that it is unacceptable for a young male HCA to privately find giving personal care to women awkward; rather, that the implication of medicine being some kind of departure from that awkwardness is somewhat misguided and concerning. The average male on-call F1 is likely to have next to no experience of providing intimate care to women, and is going to be contacted from the beginning for advice on and subsequent performance of catheterisations, rectal examinations, pelvic examinations and the list continues. That they are accountable to a consultant and can contact the night SHO or whoever for further advice is only supervision to a degree, overshadowed by rather a large amount of autonomy for a qualifying health professional.

You may believe I am being dramatic, but I would hold that the above is merely a sentiment of reality.

Personally I don't care whether I have a male or female doctor. Unless I'm seriously wrong about how much training doctors are given, a male doctor will have seen everything I own before just on someone else. It's a bit embarassing for me, but it's all standard routine for them. I do request a female doctor at my current practice though, but that's because I'm living back home and I've known my doctors since I was a little kid and it's almost as if I'm asking an uncle to look for me, and it's still pretty bad with the female ones. But back at uni I got examined by male doctors as many times as the female ones.

There is a different between singling out people for unjust prejudicial reasons like racism than not wanting to have a man stick forceps in your vagina if you have been raped or abused by a man in the past. If A man or a woman had a a fear of black people (for whatever reason, like if they were abused by someone who was black when they were younger and then associate black people with that trauma) that is different to being racist. Although it may be hurtful to the doctor, they may not understand the patients reasoning. Though I don't think it is acceptable to refuse treatment from a black doctor without good reasoning.

And how exactly do we define good reasoning? What if you were robbed by a black person and since then don't trust any black people? Would that be acceptable? Or is it only specifically some form of sexual issue?

No, unless they specifically say something along the lines of 'male doctors are better than female doctors'. It's more about being comfortable. For example, whilst I wouldn't want to get one I know I'll have to get a prostate exam at some point, and I'd rather a guy gave me one than girl.