Non-vocational degrees - worthless?

This is exactly the problem with education. People seem to think it's all about some job at the end of it, and that degrees should be "geared up for the job market". Whatever happened just to 'scholarship for the sake of scholarship'? I'd go as far even to say that actual universities should move away from offering degrees like engineering - especially universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh, Heidelberg and Bologna, but all universities in general - and stick to core, academic subjects such as History, Mathematics, Classics, Theology, Law and Philosophy. Leave things like engineering to some sort of special dedicated technical institution.

And this is the saddest thing of them all - academia is supposed to be a place where knowledge and ideas flourish, not a place to set you up for a 9-5 grind and/or university itself becoming a grind to just get your degree and get out of there.

A physicist's knowledge will far exceed an engineer's [certainly on a theoretical level] yet an engineer is more employable as you point out, which is indeed very sad to see. It's sad to see what universities and academia in general has become.

What engineers learn is nothing compared to physicists and mathematicians in theoretical terms.

Engineering is a poor man's math/physics. Sick of engineers thinking they are some sort of actual intellects when it's clear most of them are in it for the earning potential.

The common term is "theoretical". The REAL world doesn't revolve around theoretical situations. Hence engineers are employed to work out the mathematics behind real situations and not physicists.

Well I hate all of those subjects apart from maths, is university not the right place for the scientific people?

What engineers learn is nothing compared to physicists and mathematicians in theoretical terms.

Engineering is a poor man's math/physics. Sick of engineers thinking they are some sort of actual intellects when it's clear most of them are in it for the earning potential.

Engineering is applied physics. In North America very few people study physics, the vast majority study engineering. It is much more employable.

You only really need a few geniuses to study theoretical physics. Simple advances in theoretical physics occur rarely but have such a huge effect that it provides materials for engineers for years to come.

The reason jobs go to engineers is because engineers take what we know and turn it into practical applications.

And this is exactly the point I was making. Higher education has now become all about the $$$ potential, not about pursuing your passion and more importantly the pursuit of knowledge, what higher education was always intended to be. It's indeed of great sadness to see a subject as pure and beautiful as physics being marginalised/discouraged because its employability is not as good as another subject which is a subset of physics.

Sad indeed. I wonder how many great minds that physics could have used have instead been forced to chose engineering because it's more employable.

The difference is that physicists will learn the fundamentals of everything engineers use, they will understand it more and in actual fact I'm pretty sure most physicists could make excellent engineers however I can guarantee that most engineers would fail to make the cut as physicists.

Also are you suggesting that if you cannot make advancements in a field it's not worth pursuing it? This basically epitomises the the thinking of many students and society.

And this is exactly the point I was making. Higher education has now become all about the $$$ potential, not about pursuing your passion and more importantly the pursuit of knowledge, what higher education was always intended to be. It's indeed of great sadness to see a subject as pure and beautiful as physics being marginalised/discouraged because its employability is not as good as another subject which is a subset of physics.

Sad indeed. I wonder how many great minds that physics could have used have instead been forced to chose engineering because it's more employable.

The difference is that physicists will learn the fundamentals of everything engineers use, they will understand it more and in actual fact I'm pretty sure most physicists could make excellent engineers however I can guarantee that most engineers would fail to make the cut as physicists.

Also are you suggesting that if you cannot make advancements in a field it's not worth pursuing it? This basically epitomises the the thinking of many students and society.

I would have thought that many engineering companies need physicists for the more complicated problems.

Not in my experience. As I say in my original post in this thread, they're different areas. When there's a difficult engineering problem, you need an experienced and knowledgeable engineer.

Once again, are you sure physics is less employable than engineering? I would have thought that many engineering companies need physicists for the more complicated problems.

Also, to the above poster: you do realise that physics isn't all theoretical, right? Theoretical physics is basically applied math, and do you think (applied) math isn't employable?

I don't see how anyone can disagree that engineering and physics are different degrees, they teach people different skills. As such, I highly doubt a graduate physicists is able to hop into an engineering role and perform well, in the same way that an engineer is not able to perform the role of physicist.

So you think computer companies don't hire physicists into their R&D departments to work on quantum computers for instance?

This is exactly the problem with education. People seem to think it's all about some job at the end of it, and that degrees should be "geared up for the job market". Whatever happened just to 'scholarship for the sake of scholarship'? I'd go as far even to say that actual universities should move away from offering degrees like engineering - especially universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Edinburgh, Heidelberg and Bologna, but all universities in general - and stick to core, academic subjects such as History, Mathematics, Classics, Theology, Law and Philosophy. Leave things like engineering to some sort of special dedicated technical institution.