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The Chelsea F.C. Thread IV
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Original post by mhsc
Three at the back? This isn't FM 
I would imagine almost all of our players have played in a team that has four at the back for their entire career, forcing them to spend months or years adapting to a vastly different system is just silly when they know a (perfectly functional) four at the back system inside and out. It affects the entire team as well, not just the defenders. Just look at how hard City's attempt failed, and they "on paper" have a team just as perfect for any three at the back system.
I would imagine almost all of our players have played in a team that has four at the back for their entire career, forcing them to spend months or years adapting to a vastly different system is just silly when they know a (perfectly functional) four at the back system inside and out. It affects the entire team as well, not just the defenders. Just look at how hard City's attempt failed, and they "on paper" have a team just as perfect for any three at the back system.Look at juventus. They were playing 4atb at first under conte and changed to 3atb so it can clearly work. I can find numerous examples of teams that use 3atb, changed quickly and it works for them. Real madrid e.g. play 3atb when they're in a losing position to get a goal or two. Man city when using 3atb haven't actually been poor, that's just an excuse to blame mancini for his tactics, people seem to forget that against madrid, their 3atb change got them a goal to make it 2-1 at the bernabeu, or that against tottenham it turned them from being 1-0 down to 2-1. Or the fact that they beat us(albeit with a man advantage) with 3atb.
Inter at first(when samuel was fit) they were second in the league and playing 3atb and 4atb too and it was working for them until their best defender got injured.
3 at the back can work if we worked towards it. I'd like to see it tried. Plus anyway like I said it'll be a fluid 3atb, so it will switch to 4atb as well when needed, which is why I said luiz will be the hub of the team as the libero. It also gives him more freedom to go forward on his runs, knowing that 2 CB's are there to protect him if he loses the ball.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by mhsc
Three at the back? This isn't FM I would imagine almost all of our players have played in a team that has four at the back for their entire career, forcing them to spend months or years adapting to a vastly different system is just silly when they know a (perfectly functional) four at the back system inside and out. It affects the entire team as well, not just the defenders. Just look at how hard City's attempt failed, and they "on paper" have a team just as perfect for any three at the back system.
I would imagine almost all of our players have played in a team that has four at the back for their entire career, forcing them to spend months or years adapting to a vastly different system is just silly when they know a (perfectly functional) four at the back system inside and out. It affects the entire team as well, not just the defenders. Just look at how hard City's attempt failed, and they "on paper" have a team just as perfect for any three at the back system.Yeah think this is the most important bit. Any defender's lifetime instincts are based on having 3 team mates to defend with. Its all well and good saying that they can adapt but in the heat of the moment, mistakes will inevitably be made. As Man City showed.
5 at the back is probably more workable with 2 very attack minded wing backs tbh.
Original post by Zürich
Yeah think this is the most important bit. Any defender's lifetime instincts are based on having 3 team mates to defend with. Its all well and good saying that they can adapt but in the heat of the moment, mistakes will inevitably be made. As Man City showed.
5 at the back is probably more workable with 2 very attack minded wing backs tbh.
5 at the back is probably more workable with 2 very attack minded wing backs tbh.
And cole isn't an attacking full back, and azpilicueta isn't an attacking fullback I'm guessing?
You say that, but I'm guessing that chiellini, barzaghli and bonucci are the only CB's in the world capable of playing 3atb and must have only played with 2 CB's next to them their whole lifetime
. Like I said it'll be fluid, so will turn into 4atb when needed. Plus it gives luiz more freedom to roam and do his runs, if given that freedom I think we'll benefit from it a lot. 5atb and 3atb are very interchangeable. When need be they'll go forward, which is pretty much 3atb, when need be they'll stay back and it'll be 5atb.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by jam277
And cole isn't an attacking full back, and azpilicueta isn't an attacking fullback I'm guessing?
You say that, but I'm guessing that chiellini, barzaghli and bonucci are the only CB's in the world capable of playing 3atb and must have only played with 2 CB's next to them their whole lifetime. Like I said it'll be fluid, so will turn into 4atb when needed. Plus it gives luiz more freedom to roam and do his runs, if given that freedom I think we'll benefit from it a lot.
5atb and 3atb are very interchangeable. When need be they'll go forward, which is pretty much 3atb, when need be they'll stay back and it'll be 5atb.
You say that, but I'm guessing that chiellini, barzaghli and bonucci are the only CB's in the world capable of playing 3atb and must have only played with 2 CB's next to them their whole lifetime
. Like I said it'll be fluid, so will turn into 4atb when needed. Plus it gives luiz more freedom to roam and do his runs, if given that freedom I think we'll benefit from it a lot. 5atb and 3atb are very interchangeable. When need be they'll go forward, which is pretty much 3atb, when need be they'll stay back and it'll be 5atb.
But how would it work? Who would play on the wings? It's all good being in this 'FM mindset' but it's different in reality. Juve have Lichsteiner and Asamoah, perfectly suited to the system. Who would you play there?
And has Mourinho even used that formation in his entire career. He will use 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 when he returns.
Original post by jam277
And cole isn't an attacking full back, and azpilicueta isn't an attacking fullback I'm guessing?
You say that, but I'm guessing that chiellini, barzaghli and bonucci are the only CB's in the world capable of playing 3atb and must have only played with 2 CB's next to them their whole lifetime. Like I said it'll be fluid, so will turn into 4atb when needed. Plus it gives luiz more freedom to roam and do his runs, if given that freedom I think we'll benefit from it a lot.
5atb and 3atb are very interchangeable. When need be they'll go forward, which is pretty much 3atb, when need be they'll stay back and it'll be 5atb.
You say that, but I'm guessing that chiellini, barzaghli and bonucci are the only CB's in the world capable of playing 3atb and must have only played with 2 CB's next to them their whole lifetime
. Like I said it'll be fluid, so will turn into 4atb when needed. Plus it gives luiz more freedom to roam and do his runs, if given that freedom I think we'll benefit from it a lot. 5atb and 3atb are very interchangeable. When need be they'll go forward, which is pretty much 3atb, when need be they'll stay back and it'll be 5atb.
Yeah but you said 3atb, not 5.
Italian football is different as 3atb seems to be a fairly standard formation but other nationalities will just be lost.
****ing around with a defense is a receipe for disaster imo. Very little upside with huge potential downside. I think Chelsea could use another CB though and push Luiz up to DM.
Original post by TheInvincibles14
But how would it work? Who would play on the wings? It's all good being in this 'FM mindset' but it's different in reality. Juve have Lichsteiner and Asamoah, perfectly suited to the system. Who would you play there?
And has Mourinho even used that formation in his entire career. He will use 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 when he returns.
And has Mourinho even used that formation in his entire career. He will use 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 when he returns.
.
We would use bertrand(who plays left wing, left back and left mid already) and azpilicueta(who a fairly attacking full back) and it's not like cole hasn't played a flying wing back role before(see under scolari) so it's not like it's impossible.But obviously we'd need another right mid.
Yeah, have you not watched a real madrid match when they are losing? He uses di maria/coentrao as a LM/LWB and arbeloa as an RM/RWB. He's used it in a lot of matches.
Possible 2013/14 First XII Lineup:
------------------------------ Ed de Goey ----------------------------
- Ed de Goey - Ed de Goey - Ed de Goey - Ed de Goey -
-------------------- Ed de Goey - Ed de Goey -------------------
----------- Ed de Goey - Ed de Goey - Ed de Goey -----------
------------------------------ Ed de Goey ----------------------------
------------------------------ Ed de Goey ----------------------------
- Ed de Goey - Ed de Goey - Ed de Goey - Ed de Goey -
-------------------- Ed de Goey - Ed de Goey -------------------
----------- Ed de Goey - Ed de Goey - Ed de Goey -----------
------------------------------ Ed de Goey ----------------------------
Original post by Zürich
Yeah but you said 3atb, not 5.
Italian football is different as 3atb seems to be a fairly standard formation but other nationalities will just be lost.
****ing around with a defense is a receipe for disaster imo. Very little upside with huge potential downside. I think Chelsea could use another CB though and push Luiz up to DM.
Italian football is different as 3atb seems to be a fairly standard formation but other nationalities will just be lost.
****ing around with a defense is a receipe for disaster imo. Very little upside with huge potential downside. I think Chelsea could use another CB though and push Luiz up to DM.
Like I said, we should try it, not make it our main formation. 3atb only was used in italy the past 2 years, they only started using it when juve used it. Before that italian football completely were using 4-1-2-1-2 narrow diamonds. Inter, milan and other top teams used 4-1-2-1-2, it was only last year when juve showed how good they were with 3atb that italy changed to 3atb. Because their players adapted to it.
But I could see luiz going up to DM and chalobah/another CB being bought/coming through at CB next season. 3atb is worth a try, for a game we need a goal e.g.
36 assists from Mata? That's ridiculous! His goal tally and assists tally shows how well he plays just behind the striker.
Original post by Rybee
36 assists from Mata? That's ridiculous! His goal tally and assists tally shows how well he plays just behind the striker.
36 assists from Mata? That's ridiculous! His goal tally and assists tally shows how well he plays just behind the striker.
Yeah, Mata is the best in that position in the league no doubt, although I think ozil and iniesta obviously surpass him(although ozil wasn't at his best this season)
Original post by Nickini
There's being happy with the result and then there's just ****ting on other supporters. Yeah there's rivalry and it's banter and what not, but about 90% of the Arsenal fans on here went over to the Spurs thread just to take the piss, or came and posted in here to try and downplay our victory when we won the EL whilst bitching about it for several pages in your own thread, and you weren't involved in that in the slightest. I guess it just seems like a lot of you care more other teams performances than your own club's success.
I may be looking through the Chelsea thread at 4.59 in the morning, but that does not deter the credibility of my next couple of points:
- If anything, it's Spurs who look at us, not the other way round- also no one in AFC apart from szczesny gave any of the big talk unlike spurs did for the last couple of seasons
- You won the Europa League- which is good, but let's face it- no one really treasures it hugely- it seems more of a burden than top clubs (which include Chelsea) actually look forward to. That;s not to say that we (AFC) would've won it- and I would like to see us do better in the Champs League.
- Wrt to some of the others in here- we gotthe fourth highest number of points- and hence we deserved to be in the CL. Also our record in the CL is still much better than many teams there- we don't exactly go out in the group stages do we? We do compete and are a force, albeit not a 'Tier 1' opponent like Barca, Bayern would be etc.
Original post by Rybee
36 assists from Mata? That's ridiculous! His goal tally and assists tally shows how well he plays just behind the striker.
36 assists from Mata? That's ridiculous! His goal tally and assists tally shows how well he plays just behind the striker.
With that team you under-performed this season, and I hope it continues with Mourinho
The assists figured are probably out a bit, doesnt mata take all of your set pieces? you score a lot from them which would explain his absurdly high assist amount
Original post by xxbradkennedyxx
The assists figured are probably out a bit, doesnt mata take all of your set pieces? you score a lot from them which would explain his absurdly high assist amount
He takes most of the corners but free kicks have been mainly taken by Luiz and Lampard this season with the occasional left foot of Mata.
Original post by Tomatochuckers
I may be looking through the Chelsea thread at 4.59 in the morning, but that does not deter the credibility of my next couple of points:
- If anything, it's Spurs who look at us, not the other way round- also no one in AFC apart from szczesny gave any of the big talk unlike spurs did for the last couple of seasons
- You won the Europa League- which is good, but let's face it- no one really treasures it hugely- it seems more of a burden than top clubs (which include Chelsea) actually look forward to. That;s not to say that we (AFC) would've won it- and I would like to see us do better in the Champs League.
- Wrt to some of the others in here- we gotthe fourth highest number of points- and hence we deserved to be in the CL. Also our record in the CL is still much better than many teams there- we don't exactly go out in the group stages do we? We do compete and are a force, albeit not a 'Tier 1' opponent like Barca, Bayern would be etc.
- If anything, it's Spurs who look at us, not the other way round- also no one in AFC apart from szczesny gave any of the big talk unlike spurs did for the last couple of seasons
- You won the Europa League- which is good, but let's face it- no one really treasures it hugely- it seems more of a burden than top clubs (which include Chelsea) actually look forward to. That;s not to say that we (AFC) would've won it- and I would like to see us do better in the Champs League.
- Wrt to some of the others in here- we gotthe fourth highest number of points- and hence we deserved to be in the CL. Also our record in the CL is still much better than many teams there- we don't exactly go out in the group stages do we? We do compete and are a force, albeit not a 'Tier 1' opponent like Barca, Bayern would be etc.
Look at the Spurs thread, it's barely active and had about three posts in the last week until yesterday, when pretty much every Arsenal fan took it upon themselves to go over there and take the piss. You beat them to 4th ffs, not to 1st. Congratulations and all but you just embarrassed yourselves. No one's making out the EL to be the biggest achievement ever, yet when we won it, several Arsenal fans still took it upon themselves to come and post in here trying to downplay it, whilst having a several page bitch about how it "means nothing" and "i'd rather not win it" in your own thread. On here, every club has the odd troll who seems to enjoy posting in other threads being a dick but it seems like the majority of Arsenal fans are at it. As I said, it's like you care more about other teams underachieving than your own club's success, and yet always seem to be the first to criticise any questionable actions of another club/their fans.
(edited 10 years ago)
Lampard on TalkSport if anyone's interested.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11835/8724185/Jose-Mourinho-moves-closer-to-Real-Madrid-exit-and-Chelsea-return
Can only mean that he'll be announced soon enough as Chelsea manager? I call him to be announced in say a couple of weeks or so?
Can only mean that he'll be announced soon enough as Chelsea manager? I call him to be announced in say a couple of weeks or so?
Original post by iRush
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11835/8724185/Jose-Mourinho-moves-closer-to-Real-Madrid-exit-and-Chelsea-return
Can only mean that he'll be announced soon enough as Chelsea manager? I call him to be announced in say a couple of weeks or so?
Can only mean that he'll be announced soon enough as Chelsea manager? I call him to be announced in say a couple of weeks or so?
I reckon we'll know by June 1st, perhaps even the end of this week.
Real Madrid have announced a press conference tonight at 7pm BST so perhaps they'll announced something them.
edit: didn't read the article fully
edit: didn't read the article fully
Original post by Cannotbelieveit
Lampard on TalkSport if anyone's interested.
Good interview, consummate professional, he's a top guy for not wanting to play in England if Chelsea didn't renew. Him and Terry are the last of their kind at Chelsea, I can't see anyone else who there who bleeds Chelsea 24/7.
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