bptc application
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You should be able to answer all of those questions with relative ease if you have done the things you state you have done.
Original post by teddex
Exactly. And on his other thread, he requests for an answer that sounds professionally written. No offence, but this are the people that give the BPTC a bad reputation.
It's annoying to be honest and very lazy. If people cant be arsed to do their own application they will not only struggle on the BPTC but also be utterly stuffed when it comes to applying for a pupillage.
My advice to any BPTC applicant, If you're coming onto TSR to get answers for simple application questions you may as well give up now and not bother, you will save a lot of money and time!!!
Well I don't feel this is right. "this " people can not give BPTC a bad reputation, and has nothing to do with that since if he can not write an application properly the consequence is he will not be in the BPTC course. He in no way can affect the reputation of BPTC.
Of course poor applicants can affect the BPTC - they lower the rate of learning for more able applicants. It is a fact that some people get a place on the BPTC when they would be better off saving their money for something that will have value to them in the future, because the likelihood for many (even excellent candidates) is that there will be no pupillage at the end of it.
Poor English language and communication skills have been flagged up in reports on the BPTC providers (see Bar Council website for further information) and it appeared to be a complaint for some students that such people were a hindrance in seminars/tutorials.
Someone who cannot even formulate answers to the most basic of questions for their BPTC application form almost certainly has no business applying in the first place.
Poor English language and communication skills have been flagged up in reports on the BPTC providers (see Bar Council website for further information) and it appeared to be a complaint for some students that such people were a hindrance in seminars/tutorials.
Someone who cannot even formulate answers to the most basic of questions for their BPTC application form almost certainly has no business applying in the first place.
Original post by SevenStars
Of course poor applicants can affect the BPTC - they lower the rate of learning for more able applicants. It is a fact that some people get a place on the BPTC when they would be better off saving their money for something that will have value to them in the future, because the likelihood for many (even excellent candidates) is that there will be no pupillage at the end of it.
Poor English language and communication skills have been flagged up in reports on the BPTC providers (see Bar Council website for further information) and it appeared to be a complaint for some students that such people were a hindrance in seminars/tutorials.
Someone who cannot even formulate answers to the most basic of questions for their BPTC application form almost certainly has no business applying in the first place.
Poor English language and communication skills have been flagged up in reports on the BPTC providers (see Bar Council website for further information) and it appeared to be a complaint for some students that such people were a hindrance in seminars/tutorials.
Someone who cannot even formulate answers to the most basic of questions for their BPTC application form almost certainly has no business applying in the first place.
I agree with this entirely. There were people during my course who really struggled with advocacy and negotiation classes. It had a huge impact on other more able students because it is incredibly difficult to try and show your skill when your opponent hasn't prepapred, doesn't know the law and isn't able to communicate effectively.
To the original poster you really do need to get a grip. As if by some amazing miracle you were to get pupillage, you do realise that life at the Bar is a fairly singular profession don't you? You have to prepare all of your own work and represent your client in court - you can't stop mid-speech and say, "oh er, I'm not sure what to say, do you mind if I find someone to tell me what to say?".
If you can't even fill in the form you will not succeed and you will waste your money - I know this is harsh but the whole process is incredibly difficult and competitive and you have to up your game if you want to stand any sort of chance.
Thanks everyone. I just joined TSR few days back and for sake of starting a discussion I asked about the BPTC application. I did not really mean to get a written application for me. If that was what I wanted, then I could easily pay someone and get one done for me. This would not have been a tough thing. To clarify myself I should say this again, I wanted advice. Since I am an external student of University of London,so things are a bit different for us. We do not get any first hand advice,so I was wondering seeking advice from some students, who are already doing the BPTC, might be helpful.
(edited 13 years ago)
Just to pick up on this notion that the world is going to pot and stories of teachers being 'horrified' by the standard of young applicants in basic english etc.
Yes, I would agree to an extent. It is certainly an advantage to write and speak well, or at least not make basic mistakes. There is a certain way of doing things in the legal world, and if you can't speak in a certain way then you will no doubt be judged poorly for it.
But I think simply reading judgments will give you an idea of how to do it. It won't come immediately, but after a while you will pick up the turns of phrase which regularly make an appearance. If you really have a desire to be eloquent, then i'd suggest picking up a few 19th century or earlier case reports and perusing those. Judging by the comparison with more recent judgments from current members of the judiciary, I have a suspicion that people have been saying these things for an awfully long time indeed!
And for anyone feeling intimidated by the BPTC application and presenting themselves in the best possible light, I would point you to this question on the current form:
Please provide specific examples of your ability to quickly and accurately analyse large amounts of information.
Here we have a rather inelegantly split infinitive, something to be avoided at all costs in writing (if you know what you are doing). And that is what we applicants have to deal with these days...
Yes, I would agree to an extent. It is certainly an advantage to write and speak well, or at least not make basic mistakes. There is a certain way of doing things in the legal world, and if you can't speak in a certain way then you will no doubt be judged poorly for it.
But I think simply reading judgments will give you an idea of how to do it. It won't come immediately, but after a while you will pick up the turns of phrase which regularly make an appearance. If you really have a desire to be eloquent, then i'd suggest picking up a few 19th century or earlier case reports and perusing those. Judging by the comparison with more recent judgments from current members of the judiciary, I have a suspicion that people have been saying these things for an awfully long time indeed!
And for anyone feeling intimidated by the BPTC application and presenting themselves in the best possible light, I would point you to this question on the current form:
Please provide specific examples of your ability to quickly and accurately analyse large amounts of information.
Here we have a rather inelegantly split infinitive, something to be avoided at all costs in writing (if you know what you are doing). And that is what we applicants have to deal with these days...
(edited 12 years ago)
Isn't the split infinitive (in English, at least) a Victorian affectation taken from the mistaken belief that we should still stick to a purist interpretation of Latin grammar?
Original post by Anonystude
Isn't the split infinitive (in English, at least) a Victorian affectation taken from the mistaken belief that we should still stick to a purist interpretation of Latin grammar?
Hahaha indeed. I'm not one to be overly anal about things like that, but i thought the irony was irresistible. As far as I know it's still poor writing and i suspect that, if they had noticed, it wouldn't be there! Anyway, as you were...
I cannot help with the BPTC application form as I haven't done it yet, but here are my thoughts on application forms in general; I hope it helps:
1) Display a command of the English language. The most common issue is writing sentences too long.
2) Don't refer to academia; I always used to do this; they don't care. When the question asks "give an example of..." do not start with "while at the University of XXX I was a member of the XXX society..." etc. It sounds juvenile and really highlights you as a graduate. Obviously ignore this comment if you are applying for graduate schemes. Please note, the BPTC is not necessarily for 'graduates'. As a senior civil servant once said to me, "ah, now the Bar...that's a different game altogether". The idea of telling a Judge, QCs or even 'just' Barristers that you can run alongside the legal elite because you have profound experience of University sport is as stupid as it sounds, but this is the kind of crap I said when applying scholarship. If you don’t have good experiences to talk about, get them.
3) Don't bolster your application, especially to Lawyers. Writing something like "I have experience of running a complex fundraising scheme event and liaised with a myriad of cliental" will only make you look ridiculous if they probe you and it is revealed that you had a bake sale for ArtSoc and the cliental were other students. Tell the truth, honesty is appreciate, BS isn't. Aside from that, it highlights the immaturity of the application.
I'm sure there is more but to be honest, writing this post seemed like it would be far more interesting that it actually is, so i'm going to stop.
1) Display a command of the English language. The most common issue is writing sentences too long.
2) Don't refer to academia; I always used to do this; they don't care. When the question asks "give an example of..." do not start with "while at the University of XXX I was a member of the XXX society..." etc. It sounds juvenile and really highlights you as a graduate. Obviously ignore this comment if you are applying for graduate schemes. Please note, the BPTC is not necessarily for 'graduates'. As a senior civil servant once said to me, "ah, now the Bar...that's a different game altogether". The idea of telling a Judge, QCs or even 'just' Barristers that you can run alongside the legal elite because you have profound experience of University sport is as stupid as it sounds, but this is the kind of crap I said when applying scholarship. If you don’t have good experiences to talk about, get them.
3) Don't bolster your application, especially to Lawyers. Writing something like "I have experience of running a complex fundraising scheme event and liaised with a myriad of cliental" will only make you look ridiculous if they probe you and it is revealed that you had a bake sale for ArtSoc and the cliental were other students. Tell the truth, honesty is appreciate, BS isn't. Aside from that, it highlights the immaturity of the application.
I'm sure there is more but to be honest, writing this post seemed like it would be far more interesting that it actually is, so i'm going to stop.
This may across as extremely harsh and I intend it to be harsh, if you REALLY want to be a barrister why are you asking people on a public forum to 'fill in application'?
They're pretty straightforward and more importantly they're an insight into your life, so why ask strangers that know nothing about you?
As for the person that created this thread, rather than arguing with SevenStars, why not take on board what he/she has said. They're not trying to put you down, they're just pointing out their observations. From what it seems to me, the command of English is pretty poor even when converted to standard formal English, so it's something you'd have to work on orally and written. Remember, getting on the BPTC is easy, I know people with 50% on their degree (scraping a 2.2) from rubbish universities. Getting pupillage is the tough bit where the fittest survive.
They're pretty straightforward and more importantly they're an insight into your life, so why ask strangers that know nothing about you?
As for the person that created this thread, rather than arguing with SevenStars, why not take on board what he/she has said. They're not trying to put you down, they're just pointing out their observations. From what it seems to me, the command of English is pretty poor even when converted to standard formal English, so it's something you'd have to work on orally and written. Remember, getting on the BPTC is easy, I know people with 50% on their degree (scraping a 2.2) from rubbish universities. Getting pupillage is the tough bit where the fittest survive.
Original post by asuraiya84
Thanks everyone. I just joined TSR few days back and for sake of starting a discussion I asked about the BPTC application. I did not really mean to get a written application for me. If that was what I wanted, then I could easily pay someone and get one done for me. This would not have been a tough thing. To clarify myself I should say this again, I wanted advice. Since I am an external student of University of London,so things are a bit different for us. We do not get any first hand advice,so I was wondering seeking advice from some students, who are already doing the BPTC, might be helpful.
What type of advice? - If you told us about your academics and other extra curricular activities, we might be able to help
YL: an important part of the legal profession is observation. Your rant is about sixteen months too late.
Top rant, however.
Top rant, however.
OP is a QC now 
Well this thread completely lost the point very quickly...
Whilst good English is important for the BPTC application, there is nothing anywhere that says that it has to be good on Student Room forums. Admittedly, people might be put off answering threads they're having difficulty to understand due to having to translate them into an English they understand, but once they've decided to answer, should they not be answering the question? I might add really that if you are asked a question and go off on a tangent and never answer it, you haven't really got much to do in law either, BPTC or not.
As for asking about help with the application, no one wants anyone to fill their form in for them, or to give them experience they don't have. I myself would like some help, only to check the way in which I am filling in the form - some general advice:
1. What sort of style of writing do they expect - semi-bullet-pointed, or prose? Sometimes they say 'List x things you did', which I assume means that they don't want a prose assessment of how you used what you did to improve your life. Sometimes they say 'Please detail any mini-pupillages etc' - what does that mean? Do they want it like a personal statement or like a CV?
2. What counts for what? What is, say, a specific example of having to process large amounts of information quickly and under pressure? If I could have some examples, then it would be easier to think through what I've done and pick out something that would work. So examples of what kind of thing counts for the questions they ask.
If anyone would be so kind as to help with that sort of thing, it would be very nice and a great help! Thank you!
Whilst good English is important for the BPTC application, there is nothing anywhere that says that it has to be good on Student Room forums. Admittedly, people might be put off answering threads they're having difficulty to understand due to having to translate them into an English they understand, but once they've decided to answer, should they not be answering the question? I might add really that if you are asked a question and go off on a tangent and never answer it, you haven't really got much to do in law either, BPTC or not.
As for asking about help with the application, no one wants anyone to fill their form in for them, or to give them experience they don't have. I myself would like some help, only to check the way in which I am filling in the form - some general advice:
1. What sort of style of writing do they expect - semi-bullet-pointed, or prose? Sometimes they say 'List x things you did', which I assume means that they don't want a prose assessment of how you used what you did to improve your life. Sometimes they say 'Please detail any mini-pupillages etc' - what does that mean? Do they want it like a personal statement or like a CV?
2. What counts for what? What is, say, a specific example of having to process large amounts of information quickly and under pressure? If I could have some examples, then it would be easier to think through what I've done and pick out something that would work. So examples of what kind of thing counts for the questions they ask.
If anyone would be so kind as to help with that sort of thing, it would be very nice and a great help! Thank you!
Original post by bissi
I am predicted a 2.2 and wanted to know if I have a chance of getting onto a BPTC. My first choices are BPP london, COL london and City London.
Has anyone else been able to get on the course with a 2.2 or knew of someone. Many Thanks
Has anyone else been able to get on the course with a 2.2 or knew of someone. Many Thanks
Someone has already answered this precise question (which you have now asked three times, all on different threads). The answer by the other poster is a good one: yes, if you've got the money (and can pass the BCAT), you can get a place. That's not to say you WILL get a place, but your 2.2 shouldn't stop you.
Original post by sunburnt_note
Someone has already answered this precise question (which you have now asked three times, all on different threads). The answer by the other poster is a good one: yes, if you've got the money (and can pass the BCAT), you can get a place. That's not to say you WILL get a place, but your 2.2 shouldn't stop you.
Thank you, I'm still new to posting so I didn't knew everyone can see any post regardless of where they are. Thanks again for your extra information and taking the time to reply
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