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Edexcel M2/M3 June 6th/10th 2013

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Original post by kvohra
yes but a better way to think about it is work done by the resistance on you


This is just getting more confusing. :frown: work against resistance, work by cyclist, and ke and pe loss are all different things!
I just want to know why we're saying energy loss + wd by cyclist = wd against resistance
Original post by Exams v__v
Why 1/root2 ? :redface:


Because impulse is a vector which has magnitude and direction, so you have to do the inverse of the direction x the direction x the magnitude (sorry not the best way of explaining it)
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Boy_wonder_95
First find the magnitude of the direction 12+(1)2=2\sqrt {1^2 + (-1)^2} = \sqrt {2}

Then do the inverse of the magnitude x the Impulse x the parallel vector

12×92×(ij)\frac{1}{\sqrt {2}} \times 9\sqrt {2} \times (i - j)

=18i18j = 18i - 18j :smile:


Couldn't you just do the first time to get root 2, and then realise to get 9 root 2 it would have to be 9(i-j)?
Original post by Anonymous1717
Couldn't you just do the first time to get root 2, and then realise to get 9 root 2 it would have to be 9(i-j)?


Oops sorry typo x_x, yh you can do it whatever way you want
Original post by Boy_wonder_95
Because impulse is a vector which has magnitude and direction, so you have to do the inverse of the direction x the direction x the magnitude (sorry not the best way of explaining it)


Haha thanks. Guess I'll just by heart that!
Reply 265
Original post by Exams v__v
This is just getting more confusing. :frown: work against resistance, work by cyclist, and ke and pe loss are all different things!
I just want to know why we're saying energy loss + wd by cyclist = wd against resistance


I think you are overcomplicating it. All energy loss in a system must be due to an external force opposing the motion. This force must be the resistance as there is no other force opposing the motion. This question was quite confusing as the cyclist has put a force into the system as well so the work done by the cyclist is adding to the input whereas the work resistance is taking energy out, just read this and attempt the question yourself, you should understand
Original post by Olive123
Thanks !! :smile:


No problem, and good luck tomorrow! :biggrin:
Reply 267
Original post by Exams v__v
This is just getting more confusing. :frown: work against resistance, work by cyclist, and ke and pe loss are all different things!
I just want to know why we're saying energy loss + wd by cyclist = wd against resistance


I guess ill have a go at explaining. Lets take it back to the start. The work energy principle states the change in energy is equal the work done for any situation. So think of it as a change in energy not a loss. Say we lose pe and ke for a situation over a know distance. The change in energy is the sum of the two losses and hence this equals work done.

Hopefully that helps? :smile:

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Original post by Boy_wonder_95
Because the question said there's an energy loss therefore whatever force is causing that loss must be greater than what's causing the gain

No no, because resistance causes energy loss but wd causes energy gain so the difference between Wd by R and energy loss is WD by cyclist


I think I'm beginning to understand.
Reply 269
Review exercise is killing me :|
Original post by kvohra
I think you are overcomplicating it. All energy loss in a system must be due to an external force opposing the motion. This force must be the resistance as there is no other force opposing the motion. This question was quite confusing as the cyclist has put a force into the system as well so the work done by the cyclist is adding to the input whereas the work resistance is taking energy out, just read this and attempt the question yourself, you should understand


This made things clearer! :biggrin: thanks!
Original post by JayJay95
I guess ill have a go at explaining. Lets take it back to the start. The work energy principle states the change in energy is equal the work done for any situation. So think of it as a change in energy not a loss. Say we lose pe and ke for a situation over a know distance. The change in energy is the sum of the two losses and hence this equals work done.

Hopefully that helps? :smile:

Posted from TSR Mobile


Ah yes, that's the basic concept, I understood that. This question is confusing since there's extra work input by the cyclist. Wasted around 2 hours on this! -.-
Reply 272
Original post by Exams v__v
This made things clearer! :biggrin: thanks!


No problem, I had to get my teacher explain this to me yesterday
Original post by kvohra


No problem, I had to get my teacher explain this to me yesterday


So basically, energy loss in a system = wd against resistance. Tell me I'm right? :P
Haha. Good luck to you! :biggrin:
Reply 274
Original post by Exams v__v
Ah yes, that's the basic concept, I understood that. This question is confusing since there's extra work input by the cyclist. Wasted around 2 hours on this! -.-


Just looked at that question and its the perfect example of a loss in both pe and ke. The difference between the work done due to resistance and the sum of the energy losses is the work done by the cyclist :smile:

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Original post by MLogan
Review exercise is killing me :|


Do papers instead!
Reply 276
Original post by Exams v__v
So basically, energy loss in a system = wd against resistance. Tell me I'm right? :P
Haha. Good luck to you! :biggrin:


Yes energy loss in a system is work done against all forces that oppose the direction of motion, in this example it is just friction and all papers I have seen it has only been friction but they could give a dodgy question like this one so be careful
Original post by JayJay95
Just looked at that question and its the perfect example of a loss in both pe and ke. The difference between the work done due to resistance and the sum of the energy losses is the work done by the cyclist :smile:

Posted from TSR Mobile


Yes, that's the equation I'm having a hard time in figuring. >.<
Let's nail M2 tomorrow! I'm hoping for 100 but need at least 91 UMS to meet my university offer! :redface:

Anybody have any last minute tips for me?


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whos doing M3

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