The Student Room Group

PHYA5 ~ 20th June 2013 ~ A2 Physics

Scroll to see replies

Reply 820
How comes too many neutrons would cause a nucleus to be unstable?

I thought neutrons were supposed to be the 'glue' that helps hold everything together, like, they don't have the electrostatic repulsive force, but they do attract protons and neutrons together through the strong nuclear force. So it seems to me as though they could only act to increase stability inside the nucleus.

luminosity q.jpg
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Pinkhead
R is the radius, r0 is a constant.

For the first one, did they give you the mass of a gold nucleus? If not, you'd have to work out the mas yourself by adding up proton and neutron masses, then dividing that by 4/3pi r^3.

(Mass comes to around 3.27x10^-25)


Original post by smith50
Okay so find the value of ro which is a constant so is the same for all nuclides.
For the next part us the equation density = mass/volume where the volume is the volume of a sphere and the value of r will be the constant you found out i part a).So it is safe to say that the density of thh nucleus is constant and independent of it's radius.So what i am trying to say is that R is the radius of the specific nuclide and r0 is a constant value same for all nuclides.
Hope this makes sense :smile:
Smith


Thanks guys :smile: I tried to work out the nuclear radius of Au-197 ... using the value given as r0 :tongue: When actually they'd already just given the radius... so it's just

197u / 4/3pir^3

Next one didn't even think about finding r0, thought we had to use the density found in previous question!

Thanks again :biggrin:
Reply 822
Original post by Jack93o
How comes too many neutrons would cause a nucleus to be unstable?

I thought neutrons were supposed to be the 'glue' that helps hold everything together, like, they don't have the electrostatic repulsive force, but they do attract protons and neutrons together through the strong nuclear force. So it seems to me as though they could only act to increase stability inside the nucleus.


Essentially, the nucleus needs a specific amount of energy to be supplied to it to undergo fission. If this energy is supplied to it, then the nucleons have sufficient energy to work against the strong force, and the nucleus can split into two roughly equal fragments.

Remember that binding an additional nucleon into a nucleus *releases* energy, in the same way the energy is released when a nucleus is formed. For fissile isotopes like U-235, the energy that's released by binding this additional neutron into the nucleus is enough to cause it to split apart. If there was a way of just making another neutron appear, you're right, I imagine that it would contribute to stability if anything by increasing the strong force - but it's the fact that the energy released when it's binding to the nucleus overcomes the strong force that causes fission.

It's explained why this happens for some isotopes and not others here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fission#Input
Original post by Jack93o
How comes too many neutrons would cause a nucleus to be unstable?

I thought neutrons were supposed to be the 'glue' that helps hold everything together, like, they don't have the electrostatic repulsive force, but they do attract protons and neutrons together through the strong nuclear force. So it seems to me as though they could only act to increase stability inside the nucleus.


the excess neutrons are not what makes the nucleus unstable. It is because of the excess protons. There is simply far too much electrostatic repulsion that even having more neutrons wont make it stable.
With questions where you have to sketch these NZ graphs, is it exactly like how its in the book or do you use single lines?

Posted from TSR Mobile
Reply 825
Original post by cooldudeman
With questions where you have to sketch these NZ graphs, is it exactly like how its in the book or do you use single lines?

Posted from TSR Mobile


I just did a single line. Although I was a bit confused because the mark scheme for that question says that the alpha decaying nuclei (W) should be placed just below the line. But the book says alpha emitters are neutron rich so should be placed above the line? :frown:

Edit: Now I've just checked my other book and it says that alpha emitters are proton rich (Which makes sense to me). I love contradictions :tongue:
(edited 10 years ago)
I get confused when doing these .
I have no idea what the answer is but that's what I got. Help
Posted from TSR Mobile
Reply 827
Original post by cooldudeman
I get confused when doing these .
I have no idea what the answer is but that's what I got. Help
Posted from TSR Mobile


I'm guessing you just multiplied 30 by root(10)? That is the way to go about it, but if you're not sure, think of it like this

I = k/r^2

so Ir^2 = k

then you can use that value of k, and the given value of intensity, to work out r^2 next time
Original post by cooldudeman
I get confused when doing these .
I have no idea what the answer is but that's what I got. Help
Posted from TSR Mobile


just memorise this formula:

I1/I2 = (x2/x1)^2

using this, C/0.1C = x^2/900
solve for x
Original post by bugsuper
I'm guessing you just multiplied 30 by root(10)? That is the way to go about it, but if you're not sure, think of it like this

I = k/r^2

so Ir^2 = k

then you can use that value of k, and the given value of intensity, to work out r^2 next time


Hm yeah I get what you're saying.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Reply 830
Can anyone help me with June 2012 question 3?

http://filestore.aqa.org.uk/subjects/AQA-PHYA5-1-QP-JUN12.PDF

I understand the first part (give examples of background radiation)
And part b)i) is just a ratio of the area of the sphere of radiation and the area of the detector.

but part b)ii) has stumped me completely! Please can someone help?? :frown:
Original post by cooldudeman
I hate the light topic. I hate huguan

Posted from TSR Mobile


Aw i like the huygens section, it's relativity it's quite confusing to get my head around!
Reply 832
On question four for the applied paper june 2012 I don't understand the indicated power question. There is a mysterious 0.5 multiplied to the area under P-v diagram, number of cycles per second and number of cylinders. Can anyone explain this?

http://filestore.aqa.org.uk/subjects/AQA-PHYA52C-W-MS-JUN12.PDF

http://filestore.aqa.org.uk/subjects/AQA-PHYA5-2C-QP-JUN12.PDF
Reply 833
Original post by bugsuper
Essentially, the nucleus needs a specific amount of energy to be supplied to it to undergo fission. If this energy is supplied to it, then the nucleons have sufficient energy to work against the strong force, and the nucleus can split into two roughly equal fragments.

Remember that binding an additional nucleon into a nucleus *releases* energy, in the same way the energy is released when a nucleus is formed. For fissile isotopes like U-235, the energy that's released by binding this additional neutron into the nucleus is enough to cause it to split apart. If there was a way of just making another neutron appear, you're right, I imagine that it would contribute to stability if anything by increasing the strong force - but it's the fact that the energy released when it's binding to the nucleus overcomes the strong force that causes fission.

It's explained why this happens for some isotopes and not others here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fission#Input


That makes sense, but some nucleus just decay due to having excess neutrons, rather than as a result of having just absorbed a neutron

i.e., they've had these neutrons for a long time, its not like they've just suddenly become unstable as a result of the energy released from absorbing a neutron

how do you explain beta minus decay? (where the neutron changes into a proton, this isn't fission, right?)
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 834
Original post by Pinkhead
the excess neutrons are not what makes the nucleus unstable. It is because of the excess protons. There is simply far too much electrostatic repulsion that even having more neutrons wont make it stable.


But there are nucleuses (nuclei?) that decay as a result of having too many neutrons, that is the actual cause, it says it in the textbook. This is what happens in a beta minus decay, a neutron changing into a proton.
Reply 835
Original post by kabutsu12
On question four for the applied paper june 2012 I don't understand the indicated power question. There is a mysterious 0.5 multiplied to the area under P-v diagram, number of cycles per second and number of cylinders. Can anyone explain this?

http://filestore.aqa.org.uk/subjects/AQA-PHYA52C-W-MS-JUN12.PDF

http://filestore.aqa.org.uk/subjects/AQA-PHYA5-2C-QP-JUN12.PDF


Its do with 4-stroke engines the power stroke occurring every other cycle I think. Although I went to my teacher and she was baffled aswell, but she checked on the teachers notes for the applied topic and it explained it I just can't remember exactly haha.
Reply 836
Original post by Jack93o
That makes sense, but some nucleus just decay due to having excess neutrons, rather than as a result of having just absorbed a neutron

i.e., they've had these neutrons for a long time, its not like they've just suddenly become unstable as a result of the energy released from absorbing a neutron

how do you explain beta minus decay? (where the neutron changes into a proton, this isn't fission, right?)


That's a good point.

Electrostatic repulsion does explain why a proton-rich nucleus would be unstable, but not a neutron rich nucleus. And no, beta minus decay isn't fission...

There doesn't seem to be many simple answers around to this, as the following link indicates...
http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=5473.0

It seems there are quite a lot of factors which affect nuclear stability.
Reply 837
The answer to this probably lies in some hideously complex quantum mechanical explanation that we probably don't need to know at this level
Reply 838
Anyone doing Turning points
What do you think for a potential 6 marker? All 3 that have been so far were in the topic of wave-particle duality, so maybe some special relativity or discovery of electron?
Original post by Jack93o
But there are nucleuses (nuclei?) that decay as a result of having too many neutrons, that is the actual cause, it says it in the textbook. This is what happens in a beta minus decay, a neutron changing into a proton.


maybe because the strong force only has a short range so as the nucleus gets bigger and you get more neutrons, the force is too weak to hold them together?

i don't know, it's quite confusing and i cant find anything on it online :/.

Quick Reply

Latest

Trending

Trending