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Original post by Tweek
Ba is nowhere near as good as Torres.

When Torres was on his game last season you knew about. He creates space, went past players with ease and has good link-up play, and when he is on that form, which he consistently showed towards the end of last season, it gives everyone a boost.

Ba by contrast doesn't really offer much. He only scored 2 in 14 in the EPL. Considering we bought him whilst he's in his best form supposedly, that's not a good return.

I'd rather Ba leave, but then again Ba doesn't have Torres' wages...


i do agree with everything you've said here , but the reason why i don't like Torres is what ive highlighted in your post. when he's on his game he is good yes , but he's barely ever on his game ! we need someone who is almost always on their game from August-May , not someone who goes August-March doing nothing , gets kicked in the face ( ok may not have been March but whenever it was ) , then springs into action. consistency is an issue for Torres , that said he's very selfless which is good.

plus he is definitely not worth £50 million haha , what was the transfer fee for Ba ?
Is anyone reading into the fact that Schurrle took De Bruyne's shirt number?



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Saw this comment on another message board explaining why strikers like Cavani, Torres, etc. won't/wouldn't work at Chelsea.

edit: upon reading more of it, a lot of is just BS; ignore. :rolleyes:

Hazard, Mata and Oscar are the problem. They bring the ball too far too close to the box and make it a tiki-taka affair while ignoring Torres's runs. Professional football is all about timing. Look at Torres's runs; he makes the correct run at the correct time but he is hardly picked out by the midfielders at the correct time because the trio are usually too busy passing the ball back and forth and filling up space that can be used to make quick attacks. When you have one playmaker, he keeps his head up looking for that pass. Three playmakers means that the chance for a proper pass is usually lost because they may not have the ball at the proper time.

If you've ever played forward, especially a 9 like Torres, you'd understand how incredibly frustrating it is to play with 'playmakers' like the trio at Chelsea. You plan your run, make it at the correct time and do not receive the ball. It happens often, but when it borders 'always,' you undoubtedly stop trying because you get bored of trying (see what happened at Chelsea with Torres) to no positive end.

I am not absolving Torres of blame, but the Chelsea system has crippled him and will cripple any speedy forward like Torres, Cavani and Falcao, just to name stand out players right now. Lewandoski, I'm willing to get out of the way, would have a poor time at Chelsea, also, if he were ever picked up.

The one who I think may have a 'normal' scoring record for a striker is Robin van Persie. The Chelsea style is now similar to the Arsenal style where the midfield moves in unison with the striker, so there's no clear cut scorer. Check out van Persie's scoring record at Arsenal minus penalties (when Thierry Henry wasn't there). Check out the playing out style. It's a little different considering Fabregas's role, but overall, the picture, looks similar.

In turn, when Ferguson picked up van Persie, he isolated him and made him, in effect, a Torres-like forward. Look at the return he has gotten.
Do people just not see this?
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by The Assassin
Saw this comment on another message board explaining why strikers like Cavani, Torres, etc. won't/wouldn't work at Chelsea. Interesting thoughts tbh.


Am I reading this correctly, or is the poster really crediting Ferguson for RVP's goal return last season(which was 5 less than the year before)? AF picked up a ready made player and just told him to play.

Torres was poor even before he joined Chelsea. See WC 2010 for example. So many myths and excuses areound Torres when the reality is sometimes strikers just lose it. May as well try to tactically explain why Michael Owen was so poor post 2005...:rolleyes:
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Zürich
Am I reading this correctly, or is the poster crediting Ferguson for RVP's goal return last season(which was 5 less than the year before)? If so :palm:


Lol I just noticed that. :L
Original post by The Assassin
Lol I just noticed that. :L


Genuinely one of the most retarded statements I've heard about football if that's what he's trying to say.

Stuff about Torres is a load of BS as well. As if Mata cant pick a final ball out.
Reply 3766
Original post by thewingedhorse
Is jam still here???? Still making your silly predictions for teams n players? :laugh:

We meet again, a new pseudonym this time mr ballsack.

Original post by Malevolent
What predictions did he make?


That chelsea will come above arsenal this season. Was close to making the top 4 prediction but city went above chelsea.
Original post by Zürich
Genuinely one of the most retarded statements I've heard about football if that's what he's trying to say.

Stuff about Torres is a load of BS as well. As if Mata cant pick a final ball out.


Yeah lol. He's not that fast anymore, he's not strong, and his touch isn't all very good either. When he gets a direct ball from the CM he does this [video="youtube;OqLnwjbavgQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqLnwjbavgQ[/video]

And doesn't make the right runs at all. See quite a lot of good crosses go to waste because Torres is nowhere to be seen.

Regardless, I still wouldn't be totally confident about Cavani coming here.
Original post by jam277
We meet again, a new pseudonym this time mr ballsack.



That chelsea will come above arsenal this season. Was close to making the top 4 prediction but city went above chelsea.


Well call the cops because you just made an outrageous prediction :rolleyes: :tongue:
Reply 3769
Original post by Zürich
Am I reading this correctly, or is the poster really crediting Ferguson for RVP's goal return last season(which was 5 less than the year before)? AF picked up a ready made player and just told him to play.

Torres was poor even before he joined Chelsea. See WC 2010 for example. So many myths and excuses areound Torres when the reality is sometimes strikers just lose it. May as well try to tactically explain why Michael Owen was so poor post 2005...:rolleyes:

That article there was bull****. His best spell for us has been when hazard oscar and mata came.
Add to that hazard can play as a direct winger when needed.
Reply 3770
Original post by thewingedhorse
yeah and what, by how many points did u finish above them mate? now that arsenal will get some proper signings next season you'll probably find yourself battling for fourth with tottenham. face it man nothing Chelsea can do will get them to the top.

Silly fans like you think you'll be champions new season lol! so delusional. I will laugh when u end up fighting for 4th like this season. Another 1 of ur "predictions" will be wrong


Yes, because you're more knowledgeable than a multi-billion pound industry...
Original post by jam277
That article there was bull****. His best spell for us has been when hazard oscar and mata came.
Add to that hazard can play as a direct winger when needed.


Indeed. I think I got it from bleacher report lolz
Reply 3772
Malevolent

TH3-FL45H


Stop spamming ffs. :dry:
Apparently Napoli want Mikel as part of the deal. :s-smilie:
So have we got cavani yet? Some saying we brought him for 49 mill???


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Original post by The Assassin
Apparently Napoli want Mikel as part of the deal. :s-smilie:


I wouldn't want us to pay nigh on £50 million for Cavani, but a deal with Mikel - say 30/35 million plus Mikel - would be acceptable in my eyes.
Reply 3776
Original post by Isometrix
Hindsight is always a wonderful thing. Last December we had Torres who wasn't netting, and Sturridge who was getting injured and struggling to keep his place in the team. Ba was on fire, and with a £7.5m release clause seemed like the best buy on the market for us.

I think it's easier to offload Ba than Torres, and because we didn't spend much on Ba we shouldn't be losing out on a lot of money.


How many strikers do bayern have? 4 if we count muller too. We could fit those four fairly easily with rotation. Ba plays the FA and league cup ties(the thomas muller), lukaku and cavani for the league(gomez and mandzukic) and torres fill in for injured players and he can put in a shift on the wing if needed(claudio pizarro).

Its doable. City did it quite well in the 11/12 season as well with dzeko, balotelli, aguero and tevez(although he came back from his golfing trip round march).
(edited 10 years ago)
Does Muller play that often as a striker though? Either way though I understand. And Schurrle can play as both a winger and a striker - so he could be our Muller (just not as good).

We might not even get Cavani. Ba/Torres/Lukaku would be good strikeforce for the league and FA cup but what about Europe? No way in hell will Torres function well. It'll be too much on Lukaku (although Kroos + Badstuber had little CL experience and they did fine in their roles). I don't know about Ba -- he just isn't as efficient as he was with Newcastle. Maybe he'll get used to it.

I was about to compare our strikers to other league strikers, but then I remembered that we don't just rely on strikers to score goals, and we always have midfielders doing that too... so I guess we'll be fine there. And Lukaku outscored everyone on our team in the league so we'll be good there actually.

Original post by billybo_h
I wouldn't want us to pay nigh on £50 million for Cavani, but a deal with Mikel - say 30/35 million plus Mikel - would be acceptable in my eyes.


Sounds good. I'm sure they'd want more money than that 30m though. But either way €63m for Cavani is way too much -- I'd rather spend big money on other areas than just a striker, especially if the report about Mourinho only being able to spend 70m on players is true ('only' :rolleyes:). CB (Marquinhos/Mangala) + DLP.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 3778
Original post by The Assassin
Does Muller play that often as a striker though? Either way though I get what you're saying. And Schurrle can play as both a winger and a striker - so he could be our Muller (just not as good).

We might not even get Cavani. Ba/Torres/Lukaku would be good strikeforce for the league and FA cup but what about Europe? No way in hell will Torres function well. It'll be too much on Lukaku (although Kroos + Badstuber had little CL experience and they did fine in their roles). I don't know about Ba -- he just isn't as efficient as he was with Newcastle. Maybe he'll get used to it.

I was about to compare our strikers to other league strikers, but then I remembered that we don't just rely on strikers to score goals, and we always have midfielders doing that too... so I guess we'll be fine there. And Lukaku outscored everyone on our team in the league so we'll be good there actually.



Sounds good. I'm sure they'd want more money than that 30m though. But either way €63m for Cavani is way too much -- I'd rather spend big money on other areas than just a striker, especially if the report about Mourinho only being able to spend 70m on players is true ('only' :rolleyes:). CB (Marquinhos/Mangala) + DLP.


Tbf kroos is a special case. He played for bayer leverkusen a year on loan who were winter champions and he even got into the world cup squad for 2010. He was eased in by van gaal but he always had the quality to seam right in. It was just a matter of getting klose out of the team for him to play. Klose could have played a role which would have meant no mandzukic(I think klose is a better player than him in fact as a striker) but it was best for all parties if he had left.

Muller played up top for the barca legs, when bayern are ahead they put in gustavo and pushed muller up top taking out mandzukic. But yeah schurle can play that role if needed as the last resort striker.

I'm not really averse to either. If we had used sturridge we wouldn't have had a striker problem... so we could just use lukaku and make sure he doesn't do the same thing.
Reply 3779
In regards to strikers I do think the burden will be a lot less next year. If Hazard plays consistently the whole year, and not just and the beginning and end, I fully expect him to get around 20-25 goals in all competitions.

Also stating Lukaku wouldn't be up to the Champions League. It was Oscar's first time in the CL and he seemed by far our best player for the few games we played in there this year. Whether he'd continue his form into the knock-out stages remains to be seen. Even if Lukaku lacks experience, he still has is physique. Having that much raw strength and speed, and being that size surely helps when your struggling. You'll always make an impact.

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