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There must be some crazy series magic in that question.

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Reply 1861
Original post by nahomyemane778
i dont understand this solution. why is it not just n!/ (n-6)!

Because we have to factor in the fact that in what has been counted, there are 24 possibilities for each arrangement (due to rotation).
I'm glad the integral has caught the attention of several. :biggrin:

Original post by james22
Using a few approximations, I get it to be close to 21+6e+17π+6log226\dfrac{\sqrt{21+6e+17\pi+6\log 2}}{2\sqrt 6}

Is this close at all? I know it isn't correct but it may be close (or not).


That is not close to what I have - the end result is quite pleasing.
Original post by Farhan.Hanif93
Solution 57

Let the integral be II. Apply xxx\to -x to get I=111x4tanx1+x2dx I=\displaystyle\int_{-1}^{1} \dfrac{1-x^4\tan x}{1+x^2} dx (by the oddity of tan), then add the two forms of II together and divide by 2 to obtain I=1111+x2dx=π2I = \displaystyle\int_{-1}^{1} \dfrac{1}{1+x^2} dx = \dfrac{\pi}{2}.


Could someone please explain what is meant by xxx\to -x - iv seen it on many occasions with integrals on different threads but what does it actually mean (as x approaches -x or sometimes i see as x approaches x-pi/2 with trig functions in integrals) - and how has it been used to solve this integral?
Original post by Lord of the Flies
I'm glad the integral has caught the attention of several. :biggrin:



That is not close to what I have - the end result is quite pleasing.


I suspect it might be zero by any chance?...
Original post by nahomyemane778
Could someone please explain what is meant by xxx\to -x - iv seen it on many occasions with integrals on different threads but what does it actually mean (as x approaches -x or sometimes i see as x approaches x-pi/2 with trig functions in integrals) - and how has it been used to solve this integral?


It's basically making the substitution u=-x then relableling u as x.
Original post by nahomyemane778
Could someone please explain what is meant by xxx\to -x - iv seen it on many occasions with integrals on different threads but what does it actually mean (as x approaches -x or sometimes i see as x approaches x-pi/2 with trig functions in integrals) - and how has it been used to solve this integral?


I'm pretty sure it should be written xxx \mapsto -x. It means making the substitution x=-u. It's notation which I, for some reason, really don't get on with.
Original post by Hasufel
I suspect it might be zero by any chance?...

In my increasing annoyance, I told Mathematica to evaluate the integral. It can't make heads or tails of the infinite one, but the integral from 0 to pi/2 is 0.476799233144858312460420290485 (I truncated just before Mathematica became unsure of the value).
Series magic isn't the way forward, probably, because of the incredible oscillation.
The next interval (pi/2 to pi) is 0.06445155429406938922998100618002101588561.
The integral from 0 to 52pi is 0.5771487445508202137340201446320565614660,
while the integral from 0 to 52pi-pi/2 is
0.5768302091014543319600824273038202792160.
The integral from 0 to infinity is therefore probably a bit over 0.57.
The function is even.
Integrals from 0 to successive multiples of pi/2:

Spoiler


This is starting to get infuriating :P
Original post by james22
It's basically making the substitution u=-x then relableling u as x.


Original post by bananarama2
I'm pretty sure it should be written xxx \mapsto -x. It means making the substitution x=-u. It's notation which I, for some reason, really don't get on with.


Ok i still dont see how this works: sub in u=-x

I=11u4tanu11+u2du I=\displaystyle\int_{-1}^{1} \dfrac{u^4\tan u -1}{1+u^2} du

Then if you relabel as x (why- i dont get why you can do this either- they are not the same)
Then you add the integrals and divide by 2- this part i understand but my problem is why are you allowed to do everything before that?
Original post by nahomyemane778
Ok i still dont see how this works: sub in u=-x

I=11u4tanu11+u2du I=\displaystyle\int_{-1}^{1} \dfrac{u^4\tan u -1}{1+u^2} du

Then if you relabel as x (why- i dont get why you can do this either- they are not the same)

Because the uu is just a dummy variable - you'll get exactly the same result whether you integrate I=11u4tanu11+u2du I=\displaystyle\int_{-1}^{1} \dfrac{u^4\tan u -1}{1+u^2} du or I=11x4tanx11+x2dx I=\displaystyle\int_{-1}^{1} \dfrac{x^4\tan x -1}{1+x^2} dx .
Original post by nahomyemane778
Ok i still dont see how this works: sub in u=-x

I=11u4tanu11+u2du I=\displaystyle\int_{-1}^{1} \dfrac{u^4\tan u -1}{1+u^2} du

Then if you relabel as x (why- i dont get why you can do this either- they are not the same)
Then you add the integrals and divide by 2- this part i understand but my problem is why are you allowed to do everything before that?


In indefinate integrals the variable you are integrating is irrelivent, the integral of x between 0 and 1 = the integral of u between 0 and 1 = the integral of :smile: between 0 and 1, provided you are integrating with respect to that variable.
Original post by Smaug123
In my increasing annoyance, I told Mathematica to evaluate the integral. It can't make heads or tails of the infinite one, but the integral from 0 to pi/2 is 0.476799233144858312460420290485 (I truncated just before Mathematica became unsure of the value).
Series magic isn't the way forward, probably, because of the incredible oscillation.
The next interval (pi/2 to pi) is 0.06445155429406938922998100618002101588561.
The integral from 0 to 52pi is 0.5771487445508202137340201446320565614660,
while the integral from 0 to 52pi-pi/2 is
0.5768302091014543319600824273038202792160.
The integral from 0 to infinity is therefore probably a bit over 0.57.
The function is even.
Integrals from 0 to successive multiples of pi/2:

Spoiler


This is starting to get infuriating :P


Wolfram doesn't find anything interesting near those values, but could well be the case that the infinite tail of the integral is significant (i.e. the answer may actually be above 0.6).
Reply 1872
Original post by Lord of the Flies
I'm glad the integral has caught the attention of several. :biggrin:

**** it, may as well jump on the bandwagon and add to the struggling masses! :biggrin:

Spoiler



Original post by Smaug123
0.5771487445508202137340201446320565614660

This is starting to get infuriating :P
γ\gamma ? :colone:

Problem 263 (Haven't actually done this but looks like fun -sorry)

Let a,b,c,da, b, c, d be integers with a>b>c>d>0a>b>c>d>0.

Suppose that ac+bd=(b+d+ac)(b+da+c)\displaystyle ac+bd=(b+d+a-c)(b+d-a+c).

Prove that ab+cdab+cd is not prime.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by james22
In indefinate integrals the variable you are integrating is irrelivent, the integral of x between 0 and 1 = the integral of u between 0 and 1 = the integral of :smile: between 0 and 1, provided you are integrating with respect to that variable.


k but when you change it integral is the wrong way around isnt it? there should be u^4tanu -1 not 1-u^4tanu as farhan did
im very confused
Original post by nahomyemane778
k but when you change it integral is the wrong way around isnt it? there should be u^4tanu -1 not 1-u^4tanu as farhan did
im very confused


Can you post the question and solution given? I cannot find them but I know his answer was correct (I think it was my question even).
Original post by Jkn

Problem 263 (Haven't actually done this but looks like fun -sorry)

Let a,b,c,da, b, c, d be integers with a>b>c>d>0a>b>c>d>0.

Suppose that ac+bd=(b+d+ac)(b+da+c)\displaystyle ac+bd=(b+d+a-c)(b+d-a+c).

Prove that ac+bdac+bd is not prime.


Is the definiately typed correctly? I'm not great at number theory but seem to have got to an answer without much touble.
Original post by james22
Is the definiately typed correctly? I'm not great at number theory but seem to have got to an answer without much touble.


yeah i was a little confused too by the fact it was already factorised
Original post by Jkn
**** it, may as well jump on the bandwagon and add to the struggling masses! :biggrin:

Spoiler



γ\gamma ? :colone:

Problem 263 (Haven't actually done this but looks like fun -sorry)

Let a,b,c,da, b, c, d be integers with a>b>c>d>0a>b>c>d>0.

Suppose that ac+bd=(b+d+ac)(b+da+c)\displaystyle ac+bd=(b+d+a-c)(b+d-a+c).

Prove that ac+bdac+bd is not prime.


Solution 263 (turns out the question was misstyped so this is a solution to a question knowone has asked, but I'll leave it up anyway)

Assume, for a contradiction, that ac+bdac+bd is a prime. Using the inequality we can immediately deduce that b+d+ac1b+d+a-c \neq 1

Therefore b+da+c=1b+d-a+c=1 (otherwise we have found 2 factors, contradicting the fact that ac+bdac+bd is prime).

The equation then reduces to

ac+bd=b+d+acac+bd=b+d+a-c

which we can rearange then make use of the inequalities given to show that

0=a(c1)+b(d1)+cd)0+0+cd=cd>00=a(c-1)+b(d-1)+c-d) \geq 0+0+c-d=c-d>0

which is a contradiction as required.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 1878
Original post by james22
Is the definiately typed correctly? I'm not great at number theory but seem to have got to an answer without much touble.

It certainly is! If you think it's right, go for it :tongue:
Original post by Jkn
It certainly is! If you think it's right, go for it :tongue:


Posted my solution above, is it valid?

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