The Student Room Group

Should we ban women's studies/gender studies?

To my mind these subjects are simply a waste, in several ways. First of all, the tax payer has to subsidise them, costing a lot of money in a country with a large deficit problem. Secondly, a waste of time. Imagine the opportunity cost associated with people studying gender/women's studies. They could spend those years studying a practical degree or actually working. With that said maybe those who study gender studies wouldn't be intelligent enough to study something like science - but still, they could work as a truck driver or a shop assistant, even claiming social welfare would be cheaper for the tax payer.

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Reply 1
Nah, you could make a case for there being plenty of **** degrees as it is.

Besides what are women's/gender studies if not glorified psycho/sociology?
Reply 2
You haven't established the scale of the alleged problem. How does the cost of these 'unwanted' degrees compare to producing large numbers of law graduates who'll never get a sniff of a training contract for example?
Reply 3
I suppose gender/women's studies could go under the psychology/sociology section :/ Maybe to address this problem you speak of the studies could be one of the topics you get to choose when you're in your 2nd or 3rd year of university if you studied sociology or psychology... However, to say people whom choose these topics are possibly unfit for Academia is arrogant. Overall, I don't really see the problem... But, what I would like to see is more investment in the Sciences.
Original post by ChieOnakata
I suppose gender/women's studies could go under the psychology/sociology section :/ Maybe to address this problem you speak of the studies could be one of the topics you get to choose when you're in your 2nd or 3rd year of university if you studied sociology or psychology... However, to say people whom choose these topics are possibly unfit for Academia is arrogant. Overall, I don't really see the problem... But, what I would like to see is more investment in the Sciences.
Social sciences are not truly scientific..
Reply 5
Original post by James Flahey
Social sciences are not truly scientific..


I think the methodology, the way they carry out their research is scientific, to some extent with any research logic is involved. I agree to an extent I suppose the content of the social sciences is very subjective rather than objective. When we think of science we think of quantum particles and K vs R selection theory, organic chemistry etc. However the core basis of science is logic and evidence to back up the findings. A world without the social sciences wouldn't be a good idea either. We need a balance, our whole world cannot solely be based on science, the humanities and science have to work together.
Original post by James Flahey
Social sciences are not truly scientific..


Well they're not exactly mere speculation either are they; they attempt to use the scientific method for observation but don't succeed to the attempt of say physics or biology because they don't model universal laws; how a Korean man behaves and a French man for instance might be completely different, whereas gravity will be the same for each. Nevertheless they are empirical like science in many respects, it just depends on the research method I guess.
(edited 10 years ago)
Why women's studies? Why not men's studies? Men exist, too, and they wear the trousers in the more backward cultures that inhabit the cess pits of this Earth, which are worth studying if you want to know how not to run a society.

**edit: please note, by "wearing the trousers" I am referring not to gender roles, but forced gender roles. I have nothing against men being in more powerful jobs, earning more money, etc.; what I have a problem with is a deterministic attitude which does not allow individual creativity and freedom beyond the perceived role of one's gender (or whatever other category they may fit).

If anyone else negs this post, they are essentially, at best, saying the Taliban's culture is not a cess pit.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by John Stuart Mill
Well they're not exactly mere speculation either are they; they attempt to use the scientific method for observation but don't succeed to the attempt of say physics or biology because they don't model universal laws; how a Korean man behaves and a French man for instance might be completely different, whereas gravity will be the same for each. Nevertheless they are empirical like science in many respects, it just depends on the research method I guess.
You cannot make such an argument when dealing with individuals and results with individuals vary greatly sometimes for no apparent reason, for example there are studies such as behavioral economics which explore irrationality within players in markets.
This is in danger of becoming a rather philistine argument about arts subjects. To make that case is to deny the value of enlightened discourse, literature, poetry, and art, to name but a few.
Now, in relation to gender studies in particular, I think there's a very valid vase for them. Like many arts subjects, they look at society through a particular intellectual prism, so they have the potential to make our understanding of society and social ideas richer, even if you don't agree with many of the conclusions of practitioners. There is also a strong case that our society maintains rather insidious gender stereotypes that inhibit many people in self-expression; identifying these for what they are (cages for our own minds) can help to free everyone, which sounds like a pretty good thing.
Couldn't the same be said for History then? Women's studies involves a lot of history and sociology, but you want to ban it for some unbeknown reason. Who are you to tell people what they should be doing?
Original post by SpicyStrawberry
Couldn't the same be said for History then? Women's studies involves a lot of history and sociology, but you want to ban it for some unbeknown reason. Who are you to tell people what they should be doing?


While I do agree with you, who the OP may be should have no bearing on whether their argument is valid. If the OP or others can prove that the studies are valueless, there is a case that they shouldn't be publicly funded. I think there's a pretty strong case for the social value of the humanities, as injecting powerful ideas into popular discourse, and therefore promoting debate and discussion
Original post by Veni Vidi Fugi
While I do agree with you, who the OP may be should have no bearing on whether their argument is valid. If the OP or others can prove that the studies are valueless, there is a case that they shouldn't be publicly funded. I think there's a pretty strong case for the social value of the humanities, as injecting powerful ideas into popular discourse, and therefore promoting debate and discussion


I agree with you, which is why I can't see why the OP has any grounding for banning these subjects, there is no argument there but a set of assumptions that could easily be applied to a range of subjects where graduates might as well have taken the 3 years to work instead - to those individuals, despite not getting a relevant job, it might have been worthwhile which is why I don't see why the OP thinks it's his business to judge. If they can provide facts then fair enough, but it's just conjecture.
Original post by SpicyStrawberry
I agree with you, which is why I can't see why the OP has any grounding for banning these subjects, there is no argument there but a set of assumptions that could easily be applied to a range of subjects where graduates might as well have taken the 3 years to work instead - to those individuals, despite not getting a relevant job, it might have been worthwhile which is why I don't see why the OP thinks it's his business to judge. If they can provide facts then fair enough, but it's just conjecture.


The OP's accusation that students of gender are less intelligent than others is particularly embarrassing, given his complete failure to structure a coherent argument, or indeed an argument at all. I consider argumental capacity a telling sign of intelligence, personally. By contrast, diatribe is not hard to come up with, and even by those standards he hasn't achieved much...
Original post by sdm123
To my mind these subjects are simply a waste, in several ways. First of all, the tax payer has to subsidise them, costing a lot of money in a country with a large deficit problem. Secondly, a waste of time. Imagine the opportunity cost associated with people studying gender/women's studies. They could spend those years studying a practical degree or actually working. With that said maybe those who study gender studies wouldn't be intelligent enough to study something like science - but still, they could work as a truck driver or a shop assistant, even claiming social welfare would be cheaper for the tax payer.


Interesting fact, a natural science degree at Cambridge costs around £20000 per year, off the top of my head. An arts degree like History or English costs around £13,000 per year. Gender studies degrees, in terms of resouces consumed, are very similar to English and history. Assuming tuition fees of £9000 per year, that's only £4000 from the taxpayer. Given our strong arguments that gender studies have inherent value, can you justify the claim that they don't have one third of the value of a science degree?
Original post by Veni Vidi Fugi
The OP's accusation that students of gender are less intelligent than others is particularly embarrassing, given his complete failure to structure a coherent argument, or indeed an argument at all. I consider argumental capacity a telling sign of intelligence, personally. By contrast, diatribe is not hard to come up with, and even by those standards he hasn't achieved much...


Absolutely. I have a feeling they are fed up and want to blame someone without really thinking it through.
Suprised no feminists have cried "sexist pig" yet!

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Original post by felamaslen
Why women's studies? Why not men's studies? Men exist, too, and they wear the trousers in the more backward cultures that inhabit the cess pits of this Earth, which are worth studying if you want to know how not to run a society.


Sexist.

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Reply 18
You can actually study that?! Bloody hell ...
First of all I'm pretty sure the OP has just posted this to get attention- positive or negative. Secondly, I love the fact science students label arts students as 'less intelligent' or not smart enough to study science when a lot of science students would really struggle to write an English/History/Politics essay.

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