Why are engineering entry requirements so high?
I've noticed engineering entry requirements for a lot of universities are relatively high compared to their other courses.
For example at UCL; medicine AAA, pharmacy AAB, civil engineering A*AA.
Bath civil engineering A*AA, pharmacy AAB
I understand engineering isn't an easy course but it seems like you have to be really clever, unfortunately the salary of most engineers aren't anything special so could anyone explain this?
For example at UCL; medicine AAA, pharmacy AAB, civil engineering A*AA.
Bath civil engineering A*AA, pharmacy AAB
I understand engineering isn't an easy course but it seems like you have to be really clever, unfortunately the salary of most engineers aren't anything special so could anyone explain this?
Original post by eggfriedrice
I've noticed engineering entry requirements for a lot of universities are relatively high compared to their other courses.
For example at UCL; medicine AAA, pharmacy AAB, civil engineering A*AA.
Bath civil engineering A*AA, pharmacy AAB
I understand engineering isn't an easy course but it seems like you have to be really clever, unfortunately the salary of most engineers aren't anything special so could anyone explain this?
For example at UCL; medicine AAA, pharmacy AAB, civil engineering A*AA.
Bath civil engineering A*AA, pharmacy AAB
I understand engineering isn't an easy course but it seems like you have to be really clever, unfortunately the salary of most engineers aren't anything special so could anyone explain this?
This is question I've asked myself many times, especially when I'm struggling with past papers and know I need to do well (at least an A) in exams.
One reason I've thought of is that engineering is a discipline which is a combination of two subjects (Maths and Physics) or in some cases three (Electronics for EE and Chemistry for CE).
Perhaps engineers have to showcase versatility and the best way for them to do this is through a set of three good A-Levels. Are there many other courses where all three of the applicant's subjects are highly relevant?
The products of engineering also have a significant number of stakeholders - more so than most courses. Civil could create a bridge, Aeronautical could design a plane and Chemical could run a hydrochloric acid factory (I didn't do Chemistry, so I can't think of a better example). Imagine if one of these products suffered a catastrophic failure, it would be absolutely disastrous.
Sure, a doctor or pharmacist providing the wrong prescription would be no laughing matter but the effects would be of a lesser magnitude - in terms of numbers. Even less so for those studying History, English or Media Studies.
I also suppose that for Medicine, the applicants would have been stringently put through their paces via interviews, so the admissions staff know that they are of sufficient calibre without the need to set the bar higher in terms of A-Level results. What they lack in raw knowledge could probably be compensated for with a flawless, unimaginably important, bedside manner.
In short, engineers are required to be highly sound mentally and maybe in an ideal world, physically too. For Universities, there is no better way to be sure that they have an adequate candidate than by having higher grade requirements.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by pleasedtobeatyou
This is question I've asked myself many times, especially when I'm struggling with past papers and know I need to do well (at least an A) in exams.
One reason I've thought of is that engineering is a discipline which is a combination of two subjects (Maths and Physics) or in some cases three (Electronics for EE and Chemistry for CE).
Perhaps engineers have to showcase versatility and the best way for them to do this is through a set of three good A-Levels. Are there many other courses where all three of the applicant's subjects are highly relevant?
The products of engineering also have a significant number of stakeholders - more so than most courses. Civil could create a bridge, Aeronautical could design a plane and Chemical could run a hydrochloric acid factory (I didn't do Chemistry, so I can't think of a better example). Imagine if one of these products suffered a catastrophic failure, it would be absolutely disastrous.
Sure, a doctor or pharmacist providing the wrong prescription would be no laughing matter but the effects would be of a lesser magnitude - in terms of numbers. Even less so for those studying History, English or Media Studies.
I also suppose that for Medicine, the applicants would have been stringently put through their paces via interviews, so the admissions staff know that they are of sufficient calibre without the need to set the bar higher in terms of A-Level results. What they lack in raw knowledge could probably be compensated for with a flawless, unimaginably important, bedside manner.
In short, engineers are required to be highly sound mentally and maybe in an ideal world, physically too. For Universities, there is no better way to be sure that they have an adequate candidate than by having higher grade requirements.
One reason I've thought of is that engineering is a discipline which is a combination of two subjects (Maths and Physics) or in some cases three (Electronics for EE and Chemistry for CE).
Perhaps engineers have to showcase versatility and the best way for them to do this is through a set of three good A-Levels. Are there many other courses where all three of the applicant's subjects are highly relevant?
The products of engineering also have a significant number of stakeholders - more so than most courses. Civil could create a bridge, Aeronautical could design a plane and Chemical could run a hydrochloric acid factory (I didn't do Chemistry, so I can't think of a better example). Imagine if one of these products suffered a catastrophic failure, it would be absolutely disastrous.
Sure, a doctor or pharmacist providing the wrong prescription would be no laughing matter but the effects would be of a lesser magnitude - in terms of numbers. Even less so for those studying History, English or Media Studies.
I also suppose that for Medicine, the applicants would have been stringently put through their paces via interviews, so the admissions staff know that they are of sufficient calibre without the need to set the bar higher in terms of A-Level results. What they lack in raw knowledge could probably be compensated for with a flawless, unimaginably important, bedside manner.
In short, engineers are required to be highly sound mentally and maybe in an ideal world, physically too. For Universities, there is no better way to be sure that they have an adequate candidate than by having higher grade requirements.
Not sure why you were negged for that because I thought it was a pretty good answer.
Original post by pleasedtobeatyou
This is question I've asked myself many times, especially when I'm struggling with past papers and know I need to do well (at least an A) in exams.
One reason I've thought of is that engineering is a discipline which is a combination of two subjects (Maths and Physics) or in some cases three (Electronics for EE and Chemistry for CE).
Perhaps engineers have to showcase versatility and the best way for them to do this is through a set of three good A-Levels. Are there many other courses where all three of the applicant's subjects are highly relevant?
The products of engineering also have a significant number of stakeholders - more so than most courses. Civil could create a bridge, Aeronautical could design a plane and Chemical could run a hydrochloric acid factory (I didn't do Chemistry, so I can't think of a better example). Imagine if one of these products suffered a catastrophic failure, it would be absolutely disastrous.
Sure, a doctor or pharmacist providing the wrong prescription would be no laughing matter but the effects would be of a lesser magnitude - in terms of numbers. Even less so for those studying History, English or Media Studies.
I also suppose that for Medicine, the applicants would have been stringently put through their paces via interviews, so the admissions staff know that they are of sufficient calibre without the need to set the bar higher in terms of A-Level results. What they lack in raw knowledge could probably be compensated for with a flawless, unimaginably important, bedside manner.
In short, engineers are required to be highly sound mentally and maybe in an ideal world, physically too. For Universities, there is no better way to be sure that they have an adequate candidate than by having higher grade requirements.
One reason I've thought of is that engineering is a discipline which is a combination of two subjects (Maths and Physics) or in some cases three (Electronics for EE and Chemistry for CE).
Perhaps engineers have to showcase versatility and the best way for them to do this is through a set of three good A-Levels. Are there many other courses where all three of the applicant's subjects are highly relevant?
The products of engineering also have a significant number of stakeholders - more so than most courses. Civil could create a bridge, Aeronautical could design a plane and Chemical could run a hydrochloric acid factory (I didn't do Chemistry, so I can't think of a better example). Imagine if one of these products suffered a catastrophic failure, it would be absolutely disastrous.
Sure, a doctor or pharmacist providing the wrong prescription would be no laughing matter but the effects would be of a lesser magnitude - in terms of numbers. Even less so for those studying History, English or Media Studies.
I also suppose that for Medicine, the applicants would have been stringently put through their paces via interviews, so the admissions staff know that they are of sufficient calibre without the need to set the bar higher in terms of A-Level results. What they lack in raw knowledge could probably be compensated for with a flawless, unimaginably important, bedside manner.
In short, engineers are required to be highly sound mentally and maybe in an ideal world, physically too. For Universities, there is no better way to be sure that they have an adequate candidate than by having higher grade requirements.
I didn't neg you, but the main reason is simple. Engineering you are working non-stop. Seriously. You'll have coursework, tests, lots of lectures, group work, exams its just non-stop. Having high A-levels suggests to the universities that you are able to motivate and organise yourself to get the top grades. Yes, intelligence comes into it, but organization, motivation, sheer determination at times. You need to be well rounded too because you can do practical work, coding, essays even...
I imagine, along with any course intensity/difficulty reasons which have already been proposed (these might be true), some of it simply comes down to popularity of the course and competition for places. There isn't really that much difference between a student with A*AA and AAB (apart from the obvious different grades, their 'academic intelligence' is probably pretty similar), but the more popular courses can afford to be more 'elite'. It helps the university up the league tables if they set their entry requirements as high as possible, and the popularity of the course means they'll still fill it up.
Unsure if this works for the example you gave, but usually lots of applicants/competition = higher entry requirements, and less competition means they'll drop the requirements.
Unsure if this works for the example you gave, but usually lots of applicants/competition = higher entry requirements, and less competition means they'll drop the requirements.
Original post by eggfriedrice
Not sure why you were negged for that because I thought it was a pretty good answer.
It was probably for my horrible Chemistry example
Original post by djpailo
I didn't neg you, but the main reason is simple. Engineering you are working non-stop. Seriously. You'll have coursework, tests, lots of lectures, group work, exams its just non-stop. Having high A-levels suggests to the universities that you are able to motivate and organise yourself to get the top grades. Yes, intelligence comes into it, but organization, motivation, sheer determination at times. You need to be well rounded too because you can do practical work, coding, essays even...
Yeah, I got that impression quite heavily too. Searching 'engineer memes' gives you a pretty good idea what current students make of it.
It depends where you do engineering. Obviously top universities will be asking higher grades as their courses will be oversubscribed... Popular universities have the power to be more selective, so they will make sure to pick the best students/students that are more academically brilliant.
(edited 10 years ago)
This must be a new development. When I applied to study engineering it was typically the easiest degree to get into at most universities.
Maybe it's a supply/demand thing, where there used to be very few applicants for engineering but now there's significantly more?
I think it's a combination of factors
-as pointed out above, an engineering mistake can kill a whole plane/train of people, so you want to know that the people designing and building are well qualified.
- engineers are very employable, and are well regarded (pay/status) internationally, even if less so in the UK
- competition, UK engineering degrees are sought after by many international students
- finance careers, engineers are sought by city companies as they have high level maths skills and interdisciplinaryworking experience
- cost of running the degree. I've read that engineering degrees typically cost more than the £9k fee charged. There's more lectures, labs, and assignments than just about any other course. And is typically on a par with the workload of the medics. So the uni will try to choose applicants that are self starters and will cope with the demands of the course. Good A level results is seen as an indicator of that.
-as pointed out above, an engineering mistake can kill a whole plane/train of people, so you want to know that the people designing and building are well qualified.
- engineers are very employable, and are well regarded (pay/status) internationally, even if less so in the UK
- competition, UK engineering degrees are sought after by many international students
- finance careers, engineers are sought by city companies as they have high level maths skills and interdisciplinaryworking experience
- cost of running the degree. I've read that engineering degrees typically cost more than the £9k fee charged. There's more lectures, labs, and assignments than just about any other course. And is typically on a par with the workload of the medics. So the uni will try to choose applicants that are self starters and will cope with the demands of the course. Good A level results is seen as an indicator of that.
Original post by mum2three
I think it's a combination of factors
-as pointed out above, an engineering mistake can kill a whole plane/train of people, so you want to know that the people designing and building are well qualified.
- engineers are very employable, and are well regarded (pay/status) internationally, even if less so in the UK
- competition, UK engineering degrees are sought after by many international students
- finance careers, engineers are sought by city companies as they have high level maths skills and interdisciplinaryworking experience
- cost of running the degree. I've read that engineering degrees typically cost more than the £9k fee charged. There's more lectures, labs, and assignments than just about any other course. And is typically on a par with the workload of the medics. So the uni will try to choose applicants that are self starters and will cope with the demands of the course. Good A level results is seen as an indicator of that.
-as pointed out above, an engineering mistake can kill a whole plane/train of people, so you want to know that the people designing and building are well qualified.
- engineers are very employable, and are well regarded (pay/status) internationally, even if less so in the UK
- competition, UK engineering degrees are sought after by many international students
- finance careers, engineers are sought by city companies as they have high level maths skills and interdisciplinaryworking experience
- cost of running the degree. I've read that engineering degrees typically cost more than the £9k fee charged. There's more lectures, labs, and assignments than just about any other course. And is typically on a par with the workload of the medics. So the uni will try to choose applicants that are self starters and will cope with the demands of the course. Good A level results is seen as an indicator of that.
This is probably the most BS I have ever heard. The engineering jobs are in high demand. There is far too much supply. There are a few engineers who go on to do finance. But truthfully, if you are an engineer or a man of science, finance just isn't your thing. If I liked finance I'd have done economics.
And is typically on a par with the workload of the medics.
Engineers work just as hard. I knew a medic, who in their first year and first term, had one peice of coursework to do and had the whole term to do it. We had the same amount of lectures, several courseworks and a group project going on. It isn't "typically", it is easily the same, maybe more at times. I'm not saying engineering is more difficult, but just saying the workload is immense.
Original post by djpailo
This is probably the most BS I have ever heard. The engineering jobs are in high demand. There is far too much supply. There are a few engineers who go on to do finance. But truthfully, if you are an engineer or a man of science, finance just isn't your thing. If I liked finance I'd have done economics.
Engineers work just as hard. I knew a medic, who in their first year and first term, had one peice of coursework to do and had the whole term to do it. We had the same amount of lectures, several courseworks and a group project going on. It isn't "typically", it is easily the same, maybe more at times. I'm not saying engineering is more difficult, but just saying the workload is immense.
Engineers work just as hard. I knew a medic, who in their first year and first term, had one peice of coursework to do and had the whole term to do it. We had the same amount of lectures, several courseworks and a group project going on. It isn't "typically", it is easily the same, maybe more at times. I'm not saying engineering is more difficult, but just saying the workload is immense.
Wow is the work load really that bad? :| Do you still manage time off during the weekends or is it constant work?
Original post by eggfriedrice
Wow is the work load really that bad? :| Do you still manage time off during the weekends or is it constant work?
By immense I mean you do work every day. People will say here they don't work on weekends well tbh that is a load of porkies particularly as you progress. But you still have plenty of time for yourself to do whatever. Organization is key, but don't worry, you aren't working 24/7. Its more like "I have x,y,z to do...how should I approach this". You'll ALWAYS have work to do, but its up to you how you want to do it etc. There will be times you may not do much work for a few days and then pile a lot of work the next few days. It varies a lot. But you'll always have or need to do something.
Original post by djpailo
By immense I mean you do work every day. People will say here they don't work on weekends well tbh that is a load of porkies particularly as you progress. But you still have plenty of time for yourself to do whatever. Organization is key, but don't worry, you aren't working 24/7. Its more like "I have x,y,z to do...how should I approach this". You'll ALWAYS have work to do, but its up to you how you want to do it etc. There will be times you may not do much work for a few days and then pile a lot of work the next few days. It varies a lot. But you'll always have or need to do something.
Does this mean getting a part time job would be impossible?
There's plenty of lower ranked universities which will take you with LOW grades.
For example http://www.anglia.ac.uk/ruskin/en/home/prospectus/ugft/mec_eng.html
150 UCAS points and it is actually accredited by IET.
For example http://www.anglia.ac.uk/ruskin/en/home/prospectus/ugft/mec_eng.html
150 UCAS points and it is actually accredited by IET.
Original post by djpailo
This is probably the most BS I have ever heard. The engineering jobs are in high demand. There is far too much supply. There are a few engineers who go on to do finance. But truthfully, if you are an engineer or a man of science, finance just isn't your thing. If I liked finance I'd have done economics.
You're getting mixed up between "engineers" and "people with an engineering degree". Like any graduate job, it became more difficult to get a job as an engineer during a recession, and many people who aspire to one of these are still turned away. However in the job market as a whole the skills engineering graduates can bring are in demand and engineering graduates compete very favourably against other graduates for non-engineering jobs.
I think there's a bit of a belief amongst engineering tutors that A-levels, particularly physics and maths, have gotten easier. When I went to one of my open days (granted it was 8 years ago now) a tutor said to us that he would rather have empty seats in the lecture theatre than admit students who aren't going to cope with the course and for this reason the grades at the university in question (Nottingham) were set high. Part of this may be related to the point someone made earlier that engineering courses cost a lot of money to run and the university will be investing some of its own money (probably made through corporate sponsorship of the engineering department) into getting you through the course. Also there's the simple truth that engineering courses are difficult - you really do need to be good at maths and confident in applying it to scientific problems.
Original post by mucgoo
There's plenty of lower ranked universities which will take you with LOW grades.
For example http://www.anglia.ac.uk/ruskin/en/home/prospectus/ugft/mec_eng.html
150 UCAS points and it is actually accredited by IET.
For example http://www.anglia.ac.uk/ruskin/en/home/prospectus/ugft/mec_eng.html
150 UCAS points and it is actually accredited by IET.
No offence to anybody qualified or working towards qualification with the IET, but I'm not sure I'd read too much into that... if I'm not mistaken it's the only institution where you can call yourself a Member (with post-nominal letters) straight out of university?
Original post by thefish_uk
No offence to anybody qualified or working towards qualification with the IET, but I'm not sure I'd read too much into that... if I'm not mistaken it's the only institution where you can call yourself a Member (with post-nominal letters) straight out of university?
No idea but it can still do charter ships so you can't dismiss it to lightly.
Original post by thefish_uk
No offence to anybody qualified or working towards qualification with the IET, but I'm not sure I'd read too much into that... if I'm not mistaken it's the only institution where you can call yourself a Member (with post-nominal letters) straight out of university?
I have an IET accredited degree and yes last time I checked as long as you're a member you can use MIET. Looking into this it states you should have a degree and be in professional work.
A member of IMechE straight of university is an associate member, they can use AMIMechE.
They both are licensed with the engineering council so it wouldn't be a problem.
I should probably re-register with the IET, maybe I'll get pay rise? Pfffffft.
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