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Reply 2560
Original post by MatureStudent36
you're dreaming. They're in a deficit.


You mean to tell me the SNP tell lies?:eek:
Reply 2561
Original post by Psyk
What do you mean they have not done so? The UK government gave Scotland quite considerable powers less than 15 years ago. And gave them even more last year. That's quite a lot of change in a relatively short amount of time.


What powers do you brand 'quite considerable'? I was referring to the instance where in the event of a 'No' vote next year, more powers to Holyrood would be granted.I still think there is a desire for more powers in Scotland than whats currently being offered by the UK goverment.I think the option of devo-max would have been more popular than Independence. I'm not denying that Scotland has received some useful powers from the UK goverment over the years though.
Original post by punani
You mean to tell me the SNP tell lies?:eek:



An awful lot of them. KJ91 has spouted most of them, but there's an awful lot they'd been caught out lying about....... But then they criticise people who spot their lies of being anti scottish and negative.
Original post by Kj91
I still think there is a desire for more powers in Scotland than whats currently being offered by the UK goverment.
Polls typically show this. I don't think there haven't been any asking this recently because of a focus on the yes/no debate, but they have regularly suggested that more powers has higher support than both independence and the status quo.
Reply 2564
Original post by Blue Meltwater
Polls typically show this. I don't think there haven't been any asking this recently because of a focus on the yes/no debate, but they have regularly suggested that more powers has higher support than both independence and the status quo.


I agree.I have posted another survey here. The Scottish Social Attitudes Survey.
http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/separation-isnt-on-the-ballot-paper-2/
The Scottish Social Attitudes Survey was devised on the premise that the SNP would never win a majority and so there would never be an independence referendum and so many of the questions are out of date, but the last one threw up a fascinating result.

When asked how Scotland should be governed:

8% opted for a form of independence that included the word separate and not in EU
16% opted for a form of independence that included the word separate
50% opted for the devo max option
11% for the status quo
11% for dissolving the Scottish Parliament
A fair conclusion is that independence is more popular than the status quo.
When asked a slightly different question on who should make decisions on behalf of Scotland (not using the word separation) the same sample threw up very different results:

Independence won with 35%
Devo max 32%
Status quo 24%
Ending devolution (closing the Scottish Parliament) 6%
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 2565
Original post by Kj91
What powers do you brand 'quite considerable'?


Well Scotland went from having no autonomy at all to having its own Parliament with powers over a wide variety of matters. How could that not be 'quite considerable'?
Original post by Kj91
I agree.I have posted another survey here. The Scottish Social Attitudes Survey.
http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/separation-isnt-on-the-ballot-paper-2/
The Scottish Social Attitudes Survey was devised on the premise that the SNP would never win a majority and so there would never be an independence referendum and so many of the questions are out of date, but the last one threw up a fascinating result.

When asked how Scotland should be governed:

8% opted for a form of independence that included the word separate and not in EU
16% opted for a form of independence that included the word separate
50% opted for the devo max option
11% for the status quo
11% for dissolving the Scottish Parliament
A fair conclusion is that independence is more popular than the status quo.
When asked a slightly different question on who should make decisions on behalf of Scotland (not using the word separation) the same sample threw up very different results:

Independence won with 35%
Devo max 32%
Status quo 24%
Ending devolution (closing the Scottish Parliament) 6%


Makes no difference. Devo max isn't an option. 2.5 million can't dictate to 65 million. We already have significant devolved powers including tax raising powers which the SNp have chosen not to use. They have chosen to implement a council tax freeze which results in a real term cut to some of the most vulnerable in society.

The SNPs own consultation however showed a simple in or out referendum as the preferred option.
Original post by Psyk
Well Scotland went from having no autonomy at all to having its own Parliament with powers over a wide variety of matters. How could that not be 'quite considerable'?


Because SNP supporters love to portray us as victims. It's what nationalist do and have done throughout history.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 2568
do Scottish people exist?Then they must vote for independence.If they vote against it means Scots don't exist as a population.No population would vote against its independence
Original post by Tigers
do Scottish people exist?Then they must vote for independence.If they vote against it means Scots don't exist as a population.No population would vote against its independence


We exist, and two thirds of us are quite happy to be part of the UK.

Independance from what? Two of the last three prime ministers have been scottish. Two of the last three chancellors have been scottish. Hardly under represented.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 2570
Original post by MatureStudent36
We exist, and two thirds of us are quite happy to be part of the UK.

then you are not a real population but just a regional group.you can't agree on being governed by the Queen of a foreign population and by their MPs
Original post by Tigers
then you are not a real population but just a regional group.you can't agree on being governed by the Queen of a foreign population and by their MPs


What is that even supposed to mean?
Original post by Tigers
then you are not a real population but just a regional group.you can't agree on being governed by the Queen of a foreign population and by their MPs


How are we governed by a foreign population? Last time I looked, I hold a british passport. I have a MP who I voted for representing my views in the british parliament plus a MSP representing my views on devolved issues at Holyrood. The Queen is my head if state as she is for another 15 countries.

Must stop feeding the troll
Reply 2573
Original post by MatureStudent36
How are we governed by a foreign population? Last time I looked, I hold a british passport. I have a MP who I voted for representing my views in the british parliament plus a MSP representing my views on devolved issues at Holyrood. The Queen is my head if state as she is for another 15 countries.

Must stop feeding the troll

so the Scots who were fighting the English were wrong?They should have agreed the new name Britain to disguise the English rule.The Queen is English and all the MPs elected in Scotland are less than the English ones.This is why the Queen was worried about this vote
Original post by Tigers
so the Scots who were fighting the English were wrong?They should have agreed the new name Britain to disguise the English rule.The Queen is English and all the MPs elected in Scotland are less than the English ones.This is why the Queen was worried about this vote


All wrong.
Which Scots were fighting? The act of union came about in 1707 because King James of Scotland had succeeded Queen Elizabeth of England and so it just made sense. Who was fighting at this time? You've been watching too much Braveheart. Name the island Britain, what does that mean? The island we live on is called Britannia, has been so for thousands of years and will continue to be so even if the Scots do get independence.
The Queen isn't English, she's stateless and it just so happens that her official residence is in her realm known as England, whilst her Summer residence is in the place she is monarch of known as Scotland.
Reply 2575
Original post by SuperHanss
All wrong.
Which Scots were fighting? The act of union came about in 1707 because King James of Scotland had succeeded Queen Elizabeth of England and so it just made sense. Who was fighting at this time? You've been watching too much Braveheart. Name the island Britain, what does that mean? The island we live on is called Britannia, has been so for thousands of years and will continue to be so even if the Scots do get independence.
The Queen isn't English, she's stateless and it just so happens that her official residence is in her realm known as England, whilst her Summer residence is in the place she is monarch of known as Scotland.

the Queen is stateless?Come on.The Scots lost their fight for independence,let's not consider the Royals' moves for their roles.If Scots are still there they deserve an independent State without an English Queen and English MPs or Scottish pounds not accepted by a lot of English or Scottish degrees rated less than English degrees.
Original post by Tigers
the Queen is stateless?Come on.The Scots lost their fight for independence,let's not consider the Royals' moves for their roles.If Scots are still there they deserve an independent State without an English Queen and English MPs or Scottish pounds not accepted by a lot of English or Scottish degrees rated less than English degrees.


She's not stateless but she's not bound to one country, she and all of her successors will be so to 16. In the UK and Commonwealth countries we're not citizens of our nation, we're just subjects of it and of the monarch. The Queen is the embodiment of the countries she is the head of: she isn't a citizen of either England or Scotland or anywhere else because officially she is those places.

Besides, Alex Salmond and the SNP have at no point proposed Scotland should get rid of the monarchy if they get independence.
Reply 2577
Original post by SuperHanss
She's not stateless but she's not bound to one country, she and all of her successors will be so to 16. In the UK and Commonwealth countries we're not citizens of our nation, we're just subjects of it and of the monarch. The Queen is the embodiment of the countries she is the head of: she isn't a citizen of either England or Scotland or anywhere else because officially she is those places.

Besides, Alex Salmond and the SNP have at no point proposed Scotland should get rid of the monarchy if they get independence.

this is what she likes to say but she is clearly English.The EU promoters say the same about Europe,they claim joining the united states of Europe wouldn't make you lose your nationality because you would be a part of a new union.Luckily people don't believe them
The current framing of the debate as a economic and short-term political one is bizarre to me. Don't voters understand the long-term constitutional implications of this vote?
Original post by Spaz Man
The current framing of the debate as a economic and short-term political one is bizarre to me. Don't voters understand the long-term constitutional implications of this vote?


Yes we do. And that's why the SNP hasn't shifted support on the issue for thirty years.

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