The Student Room Group

How good is the 5x5 workout?

I'm considering changing my workout to a 5x5 one (specifically Ice Cream Fitness' one) as I want to build strength and gain mass. My primary aim is strength. I've heard the 5x5 workout in general is pretty good. This is the program:

Ice Cream Fitness Novice 5x5 Fullbody

Workout A:

Squat 5x5
Bench Press 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5
Barbell Shrug 3x8
Skullcrusher 3x8
Chins 3x5-8 or Straight Bar/Incline Curl 3x8
Hyperextention 2x10
Kneeling Cable Crunch 3x10-20

Workout B:

Squat 5x5
Deadlift 1x5
Standing Press 5x5
Barbell Row 5x5 -10%
CGBP 3x8
Straight Bar or Incline Curl 3x8
Kneeling Cable Crunch 3x10-20

One week you do workout A/B/A every other day and the following week you do B/A/B then back to A/B/A etc. and increase lifts by 2.5kg either every workout or every week - I can't remember. My bench progression is pretty slow (can do 47.5 without spot on 5x5), 70kg on 5x5 for squat and can comfortably do anything between 100 - 110kg on deadlift on 5x5. I maxed out at 130kg and got 3 reps a few days ago.

What are your experiences of a 5x5 workout, in general?

Scroll to see replies

That's a good routine with one caveat. It takes a very long time. I'd be surprised if you complete it in 90 minutes, let alone any prehab or mobility you do beforehand.

The first 15-16 sets are heavy so expect to spend an hour on just three exercises.

Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 10 years ago)
If you progress linearly (which I assume you will because you should) you will stall quicker on 5x5 than on 3x5. That's fine, but if you have no idea what you're doing and you don't have someone who has quite a lot of detailed knowledge of you, your training and the program itself, every time you stall you lose time while you figure out what to do. For squats, which you're doing every workout I also don't think the justification of needing more volume than 3x5. 9 heavy sets a week plus a set of deadlifts is by no means low volume. Whatever you say about the program, lifters on Starting Strength don't usually lack relative leg development.

For upper body, I like the added volume, but again you run into the problem of stalling a lot more. In fact, unless you have microplates I doubt you will progress next bench workout on 5x5. Personally if I wanted a linear progression routine with more volume (which is what ICF 5x5 is) I would arrange it kind of like this

Workout A
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
CGBP 3x10
Row 5x5
Chins 3 sets
Skullcrushers

Workout B
Squat 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
Press 3x5
DB press 3x10
Row 5x5
Curls, abs if you feel the need. If you can do weighted chins and you feel you don't need curls to grow your arms then I think BW chins might work here

So I drop the volume on the main lifts which I think is necessary to avoid stalls and simplify the whole process. The lifts in bold are what you plan progress on, the other lifts just do them, work hard, and take the progress as it comes. I do think you can replace 3x5 with a ramped 5x5 which may offer a little more volume if you choose to do so, but I don't really like 5x5 sets across like ICF/SL recommend because I think you will either add weight too slowly or stall too quickly. It may be the case that doing this and stalling earlier is theoretically optimal providing you deal with it in the exactly correct way, but I don't think unsupervised novices will in practice.

I have removed hyperextensions from the routine because I don't really like them unless they're reverse hypers and I think between rows, squats and deadlifts your back is getting loads of work but that's neither here nor there. I would never be prescriptive in ab work and I never got anything out of cable crunches. I think 2x10 is fine but just do the exercise you like the best.

When you think about it, these kinds of routines are taking something very close to Starting Strength, which needs high amounts of food to maintain progress on, and adding volume (sometimes a lot). Something has to give. For someone squatting 70 kg and interested mostly in strength I don't think you should be adding 2.5 kg per workout, it should be way more, so that's one reason I don't like 5x5. The same somewhat applies for benching and pressing, but I can see why these routines add volume in these exercises.
I agree with the above.

I'm currently doing stronglifts 5x5 which consists only of Squat/Bench/Row and Squat/Overhead Press/Deadlift (1x5 for DL) and I spend about an hour or so in the gym.

At the start it is fine as you don't need to take very long between sets or warm up sets and for workout B which only has two 5x5 exercises and one 1x5, you can easily spend around 30 minutes and you are done. But once you start getting to the heavier weights the minutes soon start piling up.

You can always add in body weight exercises like the pull-up (or inverted row) at the end if you feel like you need to do more.
Original post by Et Tu, Brute?
I agree with the above.

I'm currently doing stronglifts 5x5 which consists only of Squat/Bench/Row and Squat/Overhead Press/Deadlift (1x5 for DL) and I spend about an hour or so in the gym.

At the start it is fine as you don't need to take very long between sets or warm up sets and for workout B which only has two 5x5 exercises and one 1x5, you can easily spend around 30 minutes and you are done. But once you start getting to the heavier weights the minutes soon start piling up.

You can always add in body weight exercises like the pull-up (or inverted row) at the end if you feel like you need to do more.


Ah, nice. The SL one was the first one I came across (which I did consider) but I wanted a workout with 'accessory' exercises because I want to do isolation work for arms too. I also don't like that all the 5x5 workouts have only 1 set of DLs because I love doing them haha. I suppose it'd be pretty taxing though
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Pavzky
Ah, nice. The SL one was the first one I came across (which I did consider) but I wanted a workout with 'accessory' exercises because I want to do isolation work for arms too. I also don't like that all the 5x5 workouts have only 1 set of DLs because I love doing them haha. I suppose it'd be pretty taxing though


I would do what Nun/Troll said because I reread your post and primarily you want strength gains. Tbh just do SS 'as is' /end thread
Buy the book, it's a wealth of amazing info for a newb

Posted from TSR Mobile
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by The Troll Toll
....


What is wrong with stalling though? As in what do you mean but not knowing what to do?

For SL 5x5 it does explain what to do when you stall, I can't remember exactly as I haven't stalled yet so haven't needed to check. But I think it is something like you stall, stop the exercise, try again the next day at the same weight (you may attempt it one more time after that if you stall again. It would be easier to remember if the booklet wasn't such a chore to read and laid out even slightly better than it is). Then after that if you still can't get past it I think you take off 20% or something like that and go again from there.
In terms of difficulty to implement I am actually beginning to think SS goes too far in the other direction for some people. If you are supervised by Rip, do it (just like if you are supervised by Blaha do his routine).. if not I think my routine that I just wrote gives a bit more leeway. The problem with SS is that if you do miss reps (likely if you don't take the diet advice to heart), it's hard to know what to do in that particular workout. Especially since being mentally tough is not as easy as movies make it look, it's pretty easy to just give up on the workout, and certainly miss out on volume for that particular bodypart. Having assistance work where progression is not essential provides a framework for persevering and getting work done in spite of things not going to plan. I think when you look at what goes wrong when people do SS unsupervised, this might provide better long term results.

Let's make a narrative example: this guy is doing SS on Monday. He did 3x5 with 100 kg last workout, but he missed a couple of meals because he went out drinking on Friday (it's allowed!). He digs deep anyway, and manages 105 kg for 3x5 today. Now he's tired, and as a non athlete he's not used to performing under these conditions. He sticks to the plan and loads 72.5 kg on the bar to bench, since he did 70 last bench workout. He grinds through the first set and gets 5 reps. Good. Second set he gets 4. Bad. He sticks at it, but he's tired and now he's lost any belief that he can get 5 reps. He tries, but he gets 2 shaky reps. What now?

I honestly have no idea, and if you don't either I don't believe you should do SS (or if you do, only if you can guarantee no bad workouts). On my routine (and on ICF's, to be fair), he gets some volume anyway from his CGBPs, skullcrushers and chins. He needs to repeat that bench workout, but at least his upper body got some time under tension by the end of the day. I think for many people doing SS, he would simply get 11 reps total for bench for that rotation and think nothing of it. He comes back next workout and his chest/triceps have not been given enough stimulus to grow and get stronger. He gets 5/5/3 this time, and after doing this multiple times over the course of the program, he finishes without the level of upper body development and strength he had hoped for.
Original post by Et Tu, Brute?
What is wrong with stalling though?

It's not as good as not stalling.

As in what do you mean but not knowing what to do?

I mean being like Medhi, pretty much.

For SL 5x5 it does explain what to do when you stall, I can't remember exactly as I haven't stalled yet so haven't needed to check. But I think it is something like you stall, stop the exercise, try again the next day at the same weight (you may attempt it one more time after that if you stall again. It would be easier to remember if the booklet wasn't such a chore to read and laid out even slightly better than it is). Then after that if you still can't get past it I think you take off 20% or something like that and go again from there.

I think stalls generally have individual reasons and individual solutions, which is why I don't think you can easily solve them from a book (especially one written by Medhi), and I think if you're going to accept a higher number of them than necessary, you have to have someone who will know how to solve your individual stall.

Incidentally a great way to solve a 5x5 stall would be to cut volume...
Reply 9
The Troll Toll
...


Should you do SS before doing 5x5? Or can one begin with 5x5?
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by StevieGFan
Should you do SS before doing 5x5? Or can one begin with 5x5?


I like the way you didn't read a word of any of my posts.
Reply 11
Original post by The Troll Toll
I like the way you didn't read a word of any of my posts.


Sorry, I am about to go out, I will read it properly later.

In short, I have been lifting for 3 months. My current lifts are:

100 x 3 x 5 Deadlift

80 x 3 x 5 Squat

60 x 3 x 5 Bench

50 x 3 x 5 Row

40 x 3 x 5 OHP

Which programme is best for me to progress to 125; 100; 70; 60; 50 over the next 8-10 weeks?
If I didn't get these kinds of questions every time I try to post thoughtful advice I would do it a whole lot more often.
Reply 13
Nevermind, i'll carry on with what I currently do and just do all 5 exercises in the same session, 3 times a week despite SS and SL saying split them over 2 days; workout A and workout B.

Thanks anyway, noob.
Good for you!

Sorry the nine paragraphs of advice I wrote that you admitted to not reading wasn't enough :frown:

I'm sure your lifts will overtake mine in no time at all :yy:
Original post by The Troll Toll
Good for you!

Sorry the nine paragraphs of advice I wrote that you admitted to not reading wasn't enough :frown:

I'm sure your lifts will overtake mine in no time at all :yy:


What sort of program do you recommend for a complete beginner that avoids stalling or peaking too quickly?

Posted from TSR Mobile
Dips/Pull-ups???
Original post by HeavyTeddy
What sort of program do you recommend for a complete beginner that avoids stalling or peaking too quickly?

Posted from TSR Mobile


The one I posted was a 'novice' one. It looks quite demanding though. I'd hate to see what an intermediate or advanced workout would look like xD
Original post by The Troll Toll
Good for you!

Sorry the nine paragraphs of advice I wrote that you admitted to not reading wasn't enough :frown:

I'm sure your lifts will overtake mine in no time at all :yy:


Ha. May I ask, out of curiosity, what your lifts are?
Original post by Pavzky
The one I posted was a 'novice' one. It looks quite demanding though. I'd hate to see what an intermediate or advanced workout would look like xD


Yeah I've seen the video on the guys YouTube channel. Honestly, that is kind of ridiculous for a novice who has never trained before to do. The volume is just too much for someone starting out, I think.

Posted from TSR Mobile

Quick Reply

Latest