The Ultimate England Thread

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lots of top-quality young players..

Couldnt be further from the truth..

I mean, are you blind to other coutnries, who have buckets of young and amazing players?

Who do we have? Welbeck, sturridge, Cleverly, barkley, wilshire, AOC etc.

They are all good, some have had periods of being better then good (wilshire etc.) but to say we have 'quite a lot of top class young players' coming through.. is way off.

Our problem as a nation, is and has been for a while, precisely the oposite:

We do not have enough young british talent being nurtured and coached in the correct way, from a young enough age.

Reply 8281

eXemp

adnan cant play for england anyway. He has to have been in 3 years of education in the UK , and i cant see how thats possible if he has only been in the country for 2 years :tongue:

Reply 8282

pane123

Original post by eXemp

adnan cant play for england anyway. He has to have been in 3 years of education in the UK , and i cant see how thats possible if he has only been in the country for 2 years :tongue:

He can't. Hodgson also mentioned him becoming a naturalised citizen, but that wouldn't make him eligible, either. He would have to be absolutely mental to pick England over Belgium, anyway.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 8283

eXemp

why pick a never-been team , when you clearly have a VERY exciting team. The belgians are suddenly looking a lot more deadly with the amount of youth they churn out at consisten quality. Very aggressive team they have !

Reply 8284

pane123

Original post by eXemp

It's not only the quality, but the kind of football they have been taught to play. When they are on form, they play like a very good club side, as do the likes of Spain and Germany. England is a collection of 11 good players and that's where it ends.

Reply 8285

The Assassin

Yeah, but they've got quite a poor head coach so they're not likely to win anything anyways.

Reply 8286

eXemp

dont get me started on playstyle... England play like they just dont care. You can see it in the World cup! Take the Italy game for example. I remember counting 9 players in our box. THEY ALL HAD WHITE SHIRTS... how can you ever expect to get results when all you do is defend?

Reply 8287

eXemp

Original post by The Assassin

Yeah, but they've got quite a poor head coach so they're not likely to win anything anyways.

belgians problem is their head coach is a moron. He picks the has-beens rather than the youth. He is constantly picking people from Belgians B league over people like fellaini / hazard .. that says it all really.

Reply 8288

CameronHayward

Just a word of caution on thinking we have play-offs if the worse comes to the worse and we finish 2nd. That isn't guaranteed.. On the 2nd-placed teams table, results against the bottom team (i.e. San Marino) do not count so we would be on 10 points, which would currently put as 8th out of 9 teams on that table. Bulgaria, on 7 points, have 2 very winnable games so could leapfrog us if we fail to get 4 points from the 2 games. Dodgy ground.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_(UEFA)#Ranking_of_second-placed_teams

Original post by eXemp

Belgium seem to be doing okay.. 7 wins, 1 draw.

Reply 8289

pane123

Original post by CameronHayward

I have had a handsome bet on Ukraine to win the group. Might as well have something to cheer me up should England make a meal of it.

Reply 8290

little_wizard123

I can't believe they seed playoffs. It just means teams are disadvantaged twice. Why should a better team have an easier game because they were favourites and came 2nd?

Reply 8291

NDGAARONDI

Original post by Zerforax

We don't need a decent English manager to win an international competition. Just need a good manager.

No. Greg Dyke would look like a hypocrite and incredibly stupid if "Club England" appointed yet another foreign manager whilst harping on about the lack of English players in the Premier League. Then again, he did appoint a German manager when chairman of Brentford so he should know about foreign managers. What I find slightly intriguing is that it's only really in football where nationality views from its 'followers' appear to be more strict than other sports. If the FA didn't spend stupid wages on Sven and Fabio, which could have been spent on improving English coaching, then perhaps I'd take a different view. The FA should be punished for its lack of investment and it will help force change.

Reply 8292

username917703

Original post by fallen_acorns

I disagree, we do have a lot of quality footballers coming through.

Ross Barkley is only 19, I am a fan. He has a fearless, gung ho approach to his game, he is good running with the ball, good passer, looks very skillful, can use both feet, good finisher... Obviously for every Barkley there is a Thiago or a Gotze in another country. But if you're talking players who we should be excited about, and who have the potential to be among the best in Europe, he is one of them.

Welbeck is limited but effective. Sturridge and Wilshere are superb all round footballers. I don't understand the Cleverley hype myself... receive the ball, pass sideways or backwards, repeat. He's a bad finisher too. If you asked a Man. Utd fan if they thought he was Utd standard, if they were being honest they'd have to say no, he only gets a spot in the team because of how thin they are in CM. We have a good mix of quality, young midfielders available in Josh McEachran, Barkley, Ravel Morrison, Fabian Delph, Ashley Westwood, Jesse Lingard and The Ox.

These are all players who have technical games and can play football, so I don't believe that the players aren't there. They are, they are just not being utilised correctly because of the coaching methods and selections (see the Euro 2013 u-21's squad). The management doesn't have the bottle to adopt a new philosophy, stick to it and pick the players required to execute it. Instead they field the same players who've failed in previous tournaments, and you can't repeat the same failing method and expect a different outcome.

There are a good amount of quality wingers coming through, Wilfried Zaha (pace to burn, fantastic technique, loves a dribble; loves it), Nathan Redmond, Tom Ince and obviously Walcott who is still only 24. There is Raheem Sterling too, but, I haven't been all that impressed with him personally.

There is Andre Wisdom, Phil Jones and Jenkinson at Arsenal in the defence. I'm not overly worried about defenders as we do seem to be very hard to beat and score against, that's one position I think we do quite well in.

I have concerns over CF. Berahino is having a good season and I've already mentioned Sturridge, Welbeck can play there but he can't be relied on, he is not clinical. He can put a shift in tough away games and play a pressing game, but has a tendency to miss simple chances, Rooney will need to be replaced soon, I'm not sure if we have another striker who has the potential to become a world class player. Conner Wickham and Will Keane are the only other guys I can think of and I haven't seen a great deal of either of them.

Reply 8293

CameronHayward

I agree with most of the above. Whilst our youth is not quite comparable to the likes of Spain, Germany and Brazil, I would say its at least level with the youth of France, Italy, Holland, Argentina, etc.

You don't have to have the best players in every position to win a tournament. You need a manager who can find the right combinations of GOOD players to get the team playing in a certain way, with a few world-class players thrown in there to make the difference.

I don't quite agree with the majority view that players should be picked solely on form. That's not to say I think players should be picked on reputation. I think players should be picked based on how they can compliment one another and fit the playing style.desired. Of course form comes into it to a certain extent but it's not the most important factor for me.

The one thing I don't quite agree with is the strikers. Rooney will go on til at least 2018 in my opinion, and obviously Sturridge a bit longer. Sure, it may not look like we have much coming through beyond them, but strikers don't tend to prove themselves until a bit older.. people's view on this tends to be blurred by the occasional odd case like Rooney or Owen. At the end of the day, you only need one in-form striker at a time to do well, considering top teams rarely play with two out-and-out strikers nowadays.

Looking ahead to the upcoming games though, what do people expect Hodgson to do team wise? Literally the only actual winger in the squad is Townsend. Then of course there'sWelbeck and Milner who tend to play there. Could we perhaps go to a 3-5-2 since its been working so well for Sturridge at club level? Would probably suit Rooney and Baines too.

Reply 8294

Gob Bluth

Original post by CameronHayward

Looking ahead to the upcoming games though, what do people expect Hodgson to do team wise? Literally the only actual winger in the squad is Townsend. Then of course there'sWelbeck and Milner who tend to play there. Could we perhaps go to a 3-5-2 since its been working so well for Sturridge at club level? Would probably suit Rooney and Baines too.

No chance of Roy switching to a 3-5-2 :lol:

Reply 8295

TRS-T

Original post by CameronHayward

I think it's such a shame that at a time when we have quite a lot of top-quality young players coming through, there is not one decent English manager. Here's to never winning anything in my lifetime. :facepalm:

Harry Redknapp is more than decent.

He's good.

Reply 8296

sr90

Volunteer Team

Original post by TRS-T

Harry Redknapp is more than decent.

He's good.

If droopy was that good he wouldn't be managing in the Championship. Let's not forget he spent over £20m in the January transfer window and still couldn't get QPR off the bottom of the table. Oh, and managing to **** up an 8 point lead to finish below an Arsenal team who'd sold their two best players and had their player of the year from the previous season injured for the entire campaign.

Incredibly overrated manager.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 8297

Deshi

Original post by sr90

Completely agree. Some Spurs fan actually try and argue that he saved them from a potential relegation, like wtf, as if they were ever going to get relegated. It's just as bad as when some United fans claim Fergie did the same for them even though the team was pretty bloody good when he came in and they were never going to get relegated, grinds my gears.

Reply 8298

TRS-T

Original post by sr90

Name me another English manager who has lead their club into the Champions League and reached the quarter-finals.

Reply 8299

username917703

Original post by CameronHayward

The one thing I don't quite agree with is the strikers. Rooney will go on til at least 2018 in my opinion, and obviously Sturridge a bit longer. Sure, it may not look like we have much coming through beyond them, but strikers don't tend to prove themselves until a bit older.. people's view on this tends to be blurred by the occasional odd case like Rooney or Owen. At the end of the day, you only need one in-form striker at a time to do well, considering top teams rarely play with two out-and-out strikers nowadays.

Rooney will be finished long before then. His lifestyle choices will see to that.

Sturridge should be our main man up front, Rooney just behind. We do need another top quality striker though, Welbeck isn't that man, I know his record is good but would you feel confident with him closing down on goal, 0-0 last minute vs Germany, semi-final of a World Cup... are you confident he'd put it away? I wouldn't be.

Maybe Walcott can be the answer as I've always thought he could play as a striker and he wants to as well. His finishing is good, pace is good. Why not? Secretly I've always been a bit pissed off at Wenger for sticking him out on the wing.

Just done some Wikipedia scouting :cool: