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Hamza Tzortzis and iERA banned from University of London

Algorithm69

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 1

Rational Thinker

Original post by Algorithm69

http://standforpeace.org.uk/university-of-london-bans-iera-extremists/

What do you make of this? Is this an Islamophobic attack on Muslims and a restriction of freedom of speech and expression or a justified stand against bigotry and extremism?

I'm in two minds when it comes to this although the article makes clear that one of the banned speakers, Abdurraheem Green, is a homophobic, sexist, and terrorist-supporting bigot. And Tzortsis does not even believe in freedom of speech and has some pretty foul beliefs of his own. Should people with these views be allowed to speak at a university or stick to babbling on the street corner?

Interesting. While I am normally for Freedom of Speech. I doubt a speaker criticising Islam would be allowed. It would be a farce to think that this is Islamophobia.

In before Al Mudarri arguing that Homosexuality is "evil".

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 2

Aj12

Judging by his comments about the "stench of Jew" if they are legitimate he goes well beyond freedom of speech. I can see why they would't want him to speak. Difficult one as always though

Reply 3

PopaPork

The university has a duty to protect all of it's students

If the Muslim society want to host hate preachers they should not be allowed the use of university resources and honesty they should be investigated and closed down as a hate group and it's leaders warned about their behavior

Reply 4

hellomoto170

Can't stand that Hamza guy, he uses these big words to try and sound intelligent but doesn't make sense half the time. His debate with Lawrence Krauss was painful/hilarious.
EDIT: wow just seen his quote where he says he doesn't believe in free speech... Even for his standards that's just daft

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 5

PopaPork

Original post by hellomoto170

Shot himself in the foot then with that one

Reply 6

the bear

that's a brilliant name...sounds like "Hamster Tortoise"

Reply 7

Al-Mudaari

This is quite old, and Hamza/IERA are still in the process of appealing. Silly to ban one of the most popular Islamic talks group.

Original post by Algorithm69

And Tzortsis does not even believe in freedom of speech and has some pretty foul beliefs of his own. Should people with these views be allowed to speak at a university or stick to babbling on the street corner?

You don't even know Hamza.

The article just selectively quotes him from something he said 5 years ago (that too on a video) to give a misleading impression.

Clarifying My Views On Freedom of Speech

Original post by hellomoto170

Can't stand that Hamza guy, he uses these big words to try and sound intelligent but doesn't make sense half the time.

That says more about your ability to assess an intellectual argument than anything else.

Back to school.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 8

Clessus

I agree, the university is under no obligation to provide such people with a platform (and the same applies to anti-Muslim bigots). It's not a freedom of speech issue, because nobody is preventing them from actually expressing their views, merely that a university does not have to give them a platform to give their views undue respectability.

Reply 9

hellomoto170

Original post by Al-Mudaari

This is quite old, and Hamza/IERA are still in the process of appealing. Silly to ban one of the most popular Islamic talks group.

You don't even know Hamza.

The article just selectively quotes him from something he said 5 years ago (that too on a video) to give a misleading impression.

Clarifying My Views On Freedom of Speech

That says more about your ability to assess an intellectual argument than anything else.

Back to school.

lol no actually, I've read his clarification, it's so brief it's utterly pointless and frankly amateurish.
I've watched lots of his debates, his arguments are very weak and generally the format is very biased; one time he invited an atheist on, who admitted he knew nothing about the Quran, but Hamza said don't worry you won't need to know anything... Then he spent the debate attacking the guy for not having read the quran.

That's just one example. If you think his views are scientifically sound you need to educate yourself.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 10

Al-Mudaari

Original post by hellomoto170

lol no actually, I've read his clarification, it's so brief it's utterly pointless and frankly amateurish.

Why would he write an essay for a clarification when he doesn't need to? Anyone who has actually kept up to date with lectures, debates, posts etc. can confirm his views in that clarification, he only needs to make his point for those that are simply going by hearsay.

Original post by hellomoto170

I've watched lots of his debates, his arguments are very weak and generally the format is very biased; one time he invited an atheist on, who admitted he knew nothing about the Quran, but Hamza said don't worry you won't need to know anything... Then he spent the debate attacking the guy for not having read the quran.

That's just one example. If you think his views are scientifically sound you need to educate yourself.

That's good to know.

Reply 11

Steevee

It does seem like they border on hate speech, I doubt any Muslims would have an issue if a Uni refused to host an EDL speaker or event.

Civil discourse should never be banned, but when it turns to hate speech those people can't complain if they are denied a platform.

Reply 12

ashraf549

Original post by Aj12

Judging by his comments about the "stench of Jew" if they are legitimate he goes well beyond freedom of speech. I can see why they would't want him to speak. Difficult one as always though

When did he ever say that. You do know Hamza Tzortzis is actually convert to Islam

Reply 13

deficientmass89

Original post by Steevee

That's the think though, I actually don't think they would ban the EDL from speaking lol maybe I'm wrong but that's just a personal opinion

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Reply 14

Steevee

[QUOTE="ibbyb94;44760263"]That's the think though, I actually don't think they would ban the EDL from speaking lol maybe I'm wrong but that's just a personal opinion

Posted from TSR Mobile[/SIZE

I have to disagree, I think you'd find plenty of Unis wouldn't host a speech by someone like Steven Lennon.

Reply 15

deficientmass89

Original post by Steevee

I have to disagree, I think you'd find plenty of Unis wouldn't host a speech by someone like Steven Lennon.

Honestly I'd love that to be true, and would love to be proven wrong. And kudos to those unis, hate speeches of any kind should be banned

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Reply 16

Aj12

Original post by ashraf549

When did he ever say that. You do know Hamza Tzortzis is actually convert to Islam

This is Abdurraheem Green I was referring to

Interesting.

I don't understand why they were banned, though I think it's probably their past, more hardline statements that they have since retracted coming back to haunt them. But see what IERA's reaction to this was. They encouraged their fans to send an email saying that they will tell Muslims here and abroad that the university has a stance against the Muslim community unless they back down!

Sinister threat from IERA against the University of London

I wonder how many places would be happy to host IERA events if they knew they can act this way!

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 19

ashraf549

You have to understand that many converts (not all) are initially extremists because they're not sure how to be Muslim and how to follow Islam. However, Hamza Tzortzis has changed over the years and has become more knowledgeable. He knows more about the Qur'an and why some verses must be taken into context..

e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvM6i1aJz0s[video="youtube;EvM6i1aJz0s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvM6i1aJz0s[/video]