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Is Scottish independence a 'good or bad' thing?

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Reply 3680
Avatar for L i b
L i b
19
Original post by Maths Tutor
"First they ignore you,

then they laugh at you,

then they come to fight you,

and then you win."

(M.K. Gandhi)


Or, as you'll likely learn, most of the time if people are laughing at you, you are ridiculous and will never win anything.
What do people make of the recent by-election? With labour beating the SNP ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-24645770
Original post by FinalMH
What do people make of the recent by-election? With labour beating the SNP ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-24645770


Well, by-elections are notoriously difficult for governing parties to win, so maybe nothing can be gained from looking at it. However, it could be significant that the Labour candidate concentrated on local issues that struck a chord with voters while the SNP went for national issues.
Original post by Tigers
people who have pride and sacrifice for their country are usually a minority


So not a natural majority then.

Incidentally. I have pride in Scotland and will make sacrifices for it. But I'll still be voting no next year.
Original post by Good bloke
Well, by-elections are notoriously difficult for governing parties to win, so maybe nothing can be gained from looking at it. However, it could be significant that the Labour candidate concentrated on local issues that struck a chord with voters while the SNP went for national issues.


If anything, it could be said that the Nats tried their damn best to stay away from the dirty I word while Labour successfully turned it in to a microcosm for the referendum.


Given that the Tories admit a large percentage of local supporters tactically voted for labour, it seems that 2011 idea of divorcing the idea of an SNP vote from an independence vote has died now. I expect the SNP to get hammered in the EU elections a few months before the referendum.
Original post by Good bloke
Well, by-elections are notoriously difficult for governing parties to win, so maybe nothing can be gained from looking at it. However, it could be significant that the Labour candidate concentrated on local issues that struck a chord with voters while the SNP went for national issues.


Are they? Elsewhere they seem to be quite straightforward. Most times its a hold. How many by elections have the SNP lost now.

I'm not turning this into party politics, but mainly highlighting the fact that as a political party they're as fallible as the others. They don't have as popular support or moral high ground as their supporters like to think they do.
Reply 3686
Avatar for Tigers
Tigers
Original post by MatureStudent36
So not a natural majority then.

Incidentally. I have pride in Scotland and will make sacrifices for it. But I'll still be voting no next year.

Words don't count,actions do. you have pride in Scotland with words but with actions you say no to the existance of Scotland.
Reply 3687
Avatar for Quady
Quady
20
Original post by Tigers
Words don't count,actions do. you have pride in Scotland with words but with actions you say no to the existance of Scotland.


So you can't be proud of Yorkshire if you would vote no to a Yorkshire independence vote?
Reply 3688
Avatar for Tigers
Tigers
Original post by Quady
So you can't be proud of Yorkshire if you would vote no to a Yorkshire independence vote?

is yorkshire a nationality?I see Scotland is considered the same as normal regions and not as a nation.In this case the people of Scotland don't exist.
Original post by Good bloke
Well, by-elections are notoriously difficult for governing parties to win, so maybe nothing can be gained from looking at it. .


:colone: Didn't Alex Salmond debunk that during the council elections.
Reply 3690
Avatar for wrangled
wrangled
Scotland?

What about England?

I'd like to know when England is going to get a Parliament of our own not to mention a referendum on our independence.

I don't remember being asked if i, as an Englishman, would like independence for my country.

Makes me sick.
Original post by Tigers
is yorkshire a nationality?I see Scotland is considered the same as normal regions and not as a nation.In this case the people of Scotland don't exist.


We exist in the same form as the people of England, Wales or Northern Ireland....who equally don't exist on the international scene.

Shall we start to discuss how the ancient people of Mercia don't exist. They used to be a nation as well.
Original post by FinalMH
:colone: Didn't Alex Salmond debunk that during the council elections.


Council elections aren't by-elections and, while there can be an element of protest-voting in them, it is certainly not to the same extent that is seen in parliamentary by-elections. The SNP's previous majority was very slim in this constituency and it was very vulnerable to a protest vote or, indeed, to tactical voting.
Original post by Good bloke
Council elections aren't by-elections and, while there can be an element of protest-voting in them, it is certainly not to the same extent that is seen in parliamentary by-elections. The SNP's previous majority was very slim in this constituency and it was very vulnerable to a protest vote or, indeed, to tactical voting.



slim? There was 7% swing
Original post by MatureStudent36
slim? There was 7% swing


Maybe, but a tiny swing was all that was required to lose the seat, which is why I describe it as vulnerable.
Original post by Good bloke
Maybe, but a tiny swing was all that was required to lose the seat, which is why I describe it as vulnerable.


True. The SNP did originally only win by 590 votes. It still never stopped them trumpeting it as a major success.
Reply 3696
Avatar for Quady
Quady
20
Original post by Tigers
is yorkshire a nationality?I see Scotland is considered the same as normal regions and not as a nation.In this case the people of Scotland don't exist.


Scottish isn't a nationality, not yet anyway. Try getting into the USA as a Scottish national...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law#Classes_of_British_nationality

An ethnicity perhaps, like Scouse.
Reply 3697
Avatar for Quady
Quady
20
Original post by MatureStudent36
We exist in the same form as the people of England, Wales or Northern Ireland....who equally don't exist on the international scene.

Shall we start to discuss how the ancient people of Mercia don't exist. They used to be a nation as well.


I was going to use Cornwall as my example rather than Yorkshire, but the Cornish have nothing to be proud of :P
Reply 3698
Avatar for Quady
Quady
20
Original post by wrangled
Scotland?

What about England?

I'd like to know when England is going to get a Parliament of our own not to mention a referendum on our independence.

I don't remember being asked if i, as an Englishman, would like independence for my country.

Makes me sick.


The English never asked for one...

Thats how democracy works.
Reply 3699
Avatar for Tigers
Tigers
Original post by MatureStudent36
We exist in the same form as the people of England, Wales or Northern Ireland....who equally don't exist on the international scene.

Shall we start to discuss how the ancient people of Mercia don't exist. They used to be a nation as well.

then keep not existing.Scotland will never exist because its own people don't want it to have a place in history.Even Kosovo people have more pride

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