Muslim students at Queen Mary calling for a ‘right to pray’

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Queen Mary's has done their bit by providing a prayer room. I don't think it's right that a public lecture theatre in a secular institution should be used for religious purposes.

They can pray in groups if there isn't enough space for many people, plus, as you said, there are local Mosques built for prayer.

Reply 141

PopaPork

Original post by Iqbal007

Then its first come, first serve............and again unlikely.

Which I haven't.......the campaign again is to open up the halls for booking as it was before.

The ISOC already does that with the new prayer room...as such they pray outside as a result.

And again read the thread,

That's OK then :wink:

Sorry but I would object of you wanted the room for yourselves

but if you are willing to share and even not have access at times then I see no issues with this as long as this really is the case

you should be clearer about this then you may get more support than you are now as it seems that you just wanted the room reserved for 1 group and one group only.

No I asked YOU a question

why is it that you believe the university should have to finance and support your religious choice isn't this something Muslims should be doing for themselves?

Reply 142

PopaPork

Original post by Iam100%halal

I don't think it's an inappropriate and unjustified campaign, considering Islam's history with education, particularly with regards to the sciences.

yes its history

you have to wonder what went so wrong then. But this isn't the thread for that

Reply 143

Iam100%halal

Original post by PopaPork

yes its history

you have to wonder what went so wrong then. But this isn't the thread for that

Islam has nothing against education today either, so it isn't history.
I should have told you consider Islam's history with education as opposed to Christianity's history with education.

Reply 144

Iqbal007

Original post by PopaPork

That's OK then :wink:

It is actually clear..........you can't blame me for what the OP has written.
The campaign was launched so we could book either halls because the uni is refusing to allow any books despite them being unused.

The uni has actually been idiots to the isoc, backing out of agreements, but the isoc has tried to deal with it, like the multi-faith room.

Again look at the thread, its actually been answered.

Reply 145

Ggmu!

Original post by Iam100%halal

I don't think it's an inappropriate and unjustified campaign, considering Islam's history with education, particularly with regards to the sciences. It was Christianity that was always opposed to scientific education and said that scientific findings went against Christian beliefs whereas Islam always welcomed it. There are universities with inbuilt chapels when rightly they should be inbuilt mosques.

I think they should install shikarbandh mandirs in universities too. It's only right since India was one of 3-4 civilisations that laid the groundwork of science and maths :rolleyes:

Or, you know, don't get your religion involved with education.

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Reply 146

Iam100%halal

Original post by Ggmu!

I think they should install shikarbandh mandirs in universities too. It's only right since India was one of 3-4 civilisations that laid the groundwork of science and maths :rolleyes:

Or, you know, don't get your religion involved with education.

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I will involve my religion if my religion encourages education and deems it an act of worship.

Reply 147

PopaPork

Original post by Iam100%halal

Islam has nothing against education today either, so it isn't history.
I should have told you consider Islam's history with education as opposed to Christianity's history with education.

Bless

Reply 148

419

Original post by danny111

Because who decides who gets what? And if they allow this then any room that is free should also be used by any group of people that suddenly say they want it.

You know how you have to book to use squash courts a gym, it works that way.

Are you not at uni?

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Reply 149

User1310602

Original post by 419

The uni doesn't do a music course. What's to say been religious doesn't improve enhance student experience? People find solace in all sort of places. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it can't be so. Only a narrow minded person would say that.

Also, I don't see how they're been 'sensitive' on this issue. If the room is free, why can't they use it? You can't just have a blanket view that you apply to all situation.

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Besides just being a favorable personal experience, playing an instrument also develops and enhances your talents. What does praying do? Develop your soul? Yeah right. As if such things exist.
Even if the room is free, the university still is not obliged to let Muslims use it.

Reply 150

User1310602

Original post by Iqbal007

There hasn't been any events any time recently, they are just about to start their first event of the academic year today............the last time there was a proper event with a speaker was probably in the beginning of the year though I'm not too sure. It's been awhile since they had someone, maybe at the end of 2012.

Very unlikely.....the only time the octagon was used was during one week where they had career days, and the freshers stalls during freshers week. Societies don't actually book those halls, never seen any society to do so, they would tend to book the lecture rooms for most things, the drapers bar for more active/party like things and any dinners would be quite formal and held off campus at a restaurant or boat usually.

They might not have an obligation.........but the isoc always had dealt with what they were given and tried to make the most of it when they could use the halls in the previous years. However whats unfair is that the usage of the halls has been completely blocked and yet aren't being used most of the time.

So suddenly campaigning to be able to book a hall an hour suddenly means all that right? :facepalm:

So what if the university reverses it decision, its their decision not yours.

The same argument still applies. If you're saying that QM should allow a large hall to be booked for prayers every week then surely students can ask to book university halls forother non-educational activities like throwing parties, by arguing that theseare all essential part of the student experience. You can’t expect them to say 'yes' to the request by Muslims and deny other requests of a similar nature by non-Muslims.
How many times will I have to say this? Muslim students HAVE THE PHYSICAL ABILITY to attend the lecture insteadof going to the local mosque. Just because QM doesn’t allow the room to be booked, doesn’t mean that Muslims WILL HAVE TO miss the lecture. They can choose between one or the other.
Yes you have the right to campaign,but it just seems so pointless in this situation. You’re essentially demanding a secular institution to cater for religious needs. Using such a large space for communal religious devotion, in a secular, public institution in a secular country seems so degrading. How would you feel if non-Muslims who are attending a Mosque ask for it to cater for their secular needs?
I know it’s their decision in the end. I’m just saying that their current decision to deny the usage iscompletely justified. I completely understand why QM is being so hesitant in giving into the societies demands. Islamic Societies across Britain are becoming more extreme nowadays. Muslim speakers with extreme views often speak at Isoc meetings and just a few months ago the UCL Islamic Society actually segregated PUBLIC lectures. QM is wise in not being too lenient with the society.

Reply 151

Iqbal007

Original post by shouldbestudying

The same argument still applies. If you're saying that QM should allow a large hall to be booked for prayers every week then surely students can ask to book university halls forother non-educational activities like throwing parties, by arguing that theseare all essential part of the student experience. You can’t expect them to say 'yes' to the request by Muslims and deny other requests of a similar nature by non-Muslims.

Read the campaign.........the ISOC want to be able to book the halls, if they are able to book it therefore means that its open to other societies and the SU to book as well.

How many times will I have to say this? Muslim students HAVE THE PHYSICAL ABILITY to attend the lecture insteadof going to the local mosque. Just because QM doesn’t allow the room to be booked, doesn’t mean that Muslims WILL HAVE TO miss the lecture. They can choose between one or the other.

It actually does mean they will have to miss lecture........why? because Muslims who know that especially friday prayers need to be done properly and in congregation, loads of people who attend friday prayers are more than happy to miss their lecture. It has an effect on their education, their well being, etc
And the lecturers actually care, such that I remember last year the lecturer found another timeslot for the lecture.

Yes you have the right to campaign,but it just seems so pointless in this situation. You’re essentially demanding a secular institution to cater for religious needs. Using such a large space for communal religious devotion, in a secular, public institution in a secular country seems so degrading. How would you feel if non-Muslims who are attending a Mosque ask for it to cater for their secular needs?

Well good for you.....................but the ISOC and these Muslims don't think so.........so they can campaign as they wish.
:facepalm:

those 2 scenarios are not comparable at all............the institution itself is public, it accommodates the students who are of varying backgrounds. The mosque is a Muslim place of worship, plus they aren't a service being paid for by people :facepalm:

I know it’s their decision in the end. I’m just saying that their current decision to deny the usage iscompletely justified. I completely understand why QM is being so hesitant in giving into the societies demands. Islamic Societies across Britain are becoming more extreme nowadays. Muslim speakers with extreme views often speak at Isoc meetings and just a few months ago the UCL Islamic Society actually segregated PUBLIC lectures. QM is wise in not being too lenient with the society.

Well guess what the ISOC and most of the Muslims at QM feel its not justified.
"Extreme", such issues like this are already forcing isolation of the Muslims at QM, not to forget creating a bad relationship.

UCL Isoc didn't do such a thing................if you actually read the story, it was IERA an external organisation which hired the venue. www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/15/ucl-bans-islamic-group-over-segregation

And "segregation of gender" isn't extreme, its actually a normal practice within Islam, as such all ISOC's do so and the same rules don't apply to them because their lectures aren't "public" and are for isoc people.

Reply 152

419

Original post by shouldbestudying

Show me evidence that playing instruments enhances and develops talents. Please show me the correlation.

Two can okay thus game. Them playing music actually causes me a great deal if discomfort because well, I can't turn my ears off. So surely on that basis and given that it has no relevance to the uni, music room should be made redundant. Does Muslim praying discomfort you - actual discomfort not one where you find it discomforting because you don't agree with it.

I see no reasonable for them to refuse them access if it's free. The room is meant to be used by students for a plethora of reason. Would you feel the same if they refused the atethist club access?
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(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 153

MuslimahRuwayda

Original post by shouldbestudying

Well that's your opinion on whether it exist or not and whether it enhances your talents but why can't Muslims make use of the area by praying if no one is occupying it?

Reply 154

Origami Bullets

Original post by 419

Playing instruments enhances and develops the talent that is music and playing an instrument (is this not obvious?)

Music rooms are usually provided well away from places where it's likely to disturb others e.g. when I was in halls it was in a block that contained the postroom and the cleaner's staffroom and not much else. This provides people who play a musical instrument with somewhere to play where it won't cause others discomfort. Music rooms do have relevance to the uni when (as my uni does) there is a music course on offer.

I would feel the same if the atheist soc was refused access. I've been in situations where the SU has no space for my society (a society that has nothing to do with religion FWIW) and out of hours uni rooms are prohibitively expensive for a society. Can't say we've complained, we've just gone to a space off campus for our meeting. It's not difficult :dontknow:

Reply 155

HenryD

Original post by 419

It demonstrably improves your ability to play a musical instrument which the University sees as positive. The Uni won't care to be frank, that's your issue. Doesn't matter if you don't see a reason for it, the university can do as they please with their own rooms, grow up and stop acting like spoiled brats who've had a toy taken away. Yes I'd feel the same, there's no obligation there either.

Reply 156

419

Original post by Origami Bullets

Refrain from commenting if you can't keep up. It's annoying repeating oneself. Also the issue here isn't that there isn't a space, there is one. And the reason the uni have given for it not been used us that it's been used something that's been supposedly proven not to be true. That's what started the campaign.

As someone that's been in a society, if your told you that you can't use the room because it's booked but turned out it wasn't, would you just turn an eye, shrug your shoulder and let the power that be do as they lease or be baffled as to why they didn't give you it and challenge them?

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(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 157

419

Original post by HenryD

And I could say been religious demonstrates your ability to stay dedicated, disciplined and stick to a deadline- skill that are more pertinent and extrapolated to banging some drum with a stick. We can keep sparring all day. I'm gloved up.

Contrary to what you believe, unis can't do as they pleased. No one can, nit especially when they're paying them for it. We don't live in as I say society, acquiesce to my demand. Come meet us in the 21st century.

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Reply 158

HenryD

Original post by 419

If I thought eternal hellfire awaited id probably be punctual too. It proves nothing because no one will ask you about it or know how well you keep it. Good for you.
On whether or not they let societies use this part of their property, they can. You haven't got a legal right to it and no-ones really going to care about your protests. I am in the 21st century, that's why I haven't been killed for my disbelief yet. The 21st century doesn't involve secular institutions being forced to bow to religious tantrums.