Can we talk about the 40% PGCE drop out rate? Anyone here dropped out?

I'll stick to telling the truth if that's alright with you.

Air hostesses
Customer service reps
Tube supervisors
Traffic wardens
Police officers

Ever considered you may just be seen as a boring teacher so they play up in your lessons?

the corporate world, having worked in it for 2 years, is full of people like those in the Apprentice. They are on a mission to the top and will quite happily stab you in the back if needs be to get there. A few bad words here and there to the manager to try and sway his opinion.

I fear that the person in question, Mr M, has had terrible experiences in his school and think everyone is like that and that they are the set example for children everywhere which couldn't be more wrong. Maybe its time he stopped generalising an entire sector of society on the basis of his life experiences because the world is bigger that what he has lived.

There are multiple learning styles and of course they exist. Another absurd statement.

There are numerous different learning styles and you have pointed out two of them. I have identified mine whilst at university. I find learning from lecture slides hard and I am more of a hands on learner and need to be practical and so on to learn. Finding out your own best methods of learning proves this does exist.

What's your point? Aggression towards workers in these occupations will usually result in arrest.

Children don't play up in my lessons. I haven't issued a single consequence in any of my classes this year. Children tend to target inexperienced teachers or those new to the school.

I mistakenly thought you were suggesting this is the dynamic of the staffroom. For the most part, school teachers are pretty supportive of one another.

You couldn't be more wrong. I haven't had any terrible experiences. The standard of behaviour in my school is good and will probably be rated outstanding at our next Ofsted.

Here are a few links to Andrew Old's blog "Scenes From The Battleground" on the reality of teaching in a "bog-standard" state secondary school. This blog has been praised by Michael Gove on numerous occasions.

http://teachingbattleground.wordpress.com/2007/03/18/getting-terrored/

http://teachingbattleground.wordpress.com/2006/12/18/more-from-the-behaviour-management-database/

http://teachingbattleground.wordpress.com/2008/03/21/reloaded-how-to-find-out-if-your-teacher-is-gay/

http://teachingbattleground.wordpress.com/2007/07/27/the-f-off-factor/

http://teachingbattleground.wordpress.com/2007/12/01/i-dont-get-it/

http://teachingbattleground.wordpress.com/2007/01/31/five-incidents-that-didnt-result-in-a-permanent-exclusion/

http://teachingbattleground.wordpress.com/2007/03/04/the-most-ridiculous-complaints-ever-made-against-me/

http://teachingbattleground.wordpress.com/2008/08/10/a-personality-clash/

http://teachingbattleground.wordpress.com/2008/09/06/charlene/



Andrew Old again:

http://teachingbattleground.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/never-forget-learning-styles-are-complete-arse/

Yes - I didn't train to teach until I was in my mid 30s.



Adults who are verbally abusive are subject to arrest and prosecution. Schoolchildren are routinely let off and their teachers disciplined for failing to control the situation. Being told where to go by a Primary child is very different from a sinister 15 year old whispering they are going to rape your daughter and stab your wife (these threats were made to one of my colleagues before he went off with stress).



I was being facetious but my point was that professional educators are best placed to decide the content of a lesson - it should not be put to a classroom vote.

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A 'Learning Styles' FAQ in case you are genuinely interested:

http://www.danielwillingham.com/learning-styles-faq.html

Daniel Willingham's book is available from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Dont-Students-Like-School/dp/047059196X#reader_047059196X

I am interested yes. I am not meaning to come across as having a go but I am genuinely interested.

I have found the words of actual teachers with experience on this thread very useful, less so the uninformed criticisms of them by aspiring teachers who think that they are in some sort of Hollywood inspirational movie.

I have been considering doing a PGCE this year despite the fact that I have a parent who taught MFL for years and hated it. To be totally honest my motivations probably come mostly from the fact that there are so few graduate opportunities available to me, I have a high 2.1 undergraduate in languages and an MA and I have absolutely no idea what I want to do if it isn't teaching. The fact that most of my fellow undergrads are either in very poorly paid work, unemployed or work as teachers made me think that perhaps the latter would be an okay option but I'm increasingly realising that teaching may not be for me.

Yesterday I did a lesson observation in some MFL classes at a reasonably good school ranked 'outstanding' by Ofsted and in each lesson, bar one Year 7 lesson, teachers were insulted, sworn at and asked nastily why they should be learning what they are learning. No one should have to put up with that.

I don't know if I could cope, clearly many don't. I'm not under the misapprehension that this was anything but typical, obviously on some days it gets a lot worse as well. At my observation placement teachers were really pleasant to me and accommodating, but not exactly what I would call happy. None of them really rated teaching as a profession and I'm not sure I would either.

What a terrible generation this is for entering the world of work. I wish I'd been born earlier, failing that I wish that I could go back and do vocational training rather than university.

It is worth noting that not every school is like that. In the school I volunteer, kids are really nice (there are 2 or 3 that might be talk a bit but that's it). I guess one needs tons of resilience and tough hand.

I have found the words of actual teachers with experience on this thread very useful, less so the uninformed criticisms of them by aspiring teachers who think that they are in some sort of Hollywood inspirational movie.

I don't see anyone in this thread thinking that at all. What I see people alluding to is hope and being optimistic in their views rather than pessimistic and defeatist. Everyone knows teaching is a very hard profession in every aspect from emotional to legal. Its draining and its hard work trying to inspire and convince youngsters from all backgrounds that they should be learning this material as it will better their lives.

No one is arguing that point. Nobody said it would be a walk in the park but without hope, why bother? Without thinking you can make a difference why bother? You go out into the profession and you do your best and you slug away at it. You don't just generalise and make it sound all doom and gloom because it isn't always that way.

Do footballers just go out and accept they are playing a tougher team and accept defeat? Some do but they get nowhere then or they are limiting themselves. Others show passion, grit, determination and care and these often succeed and overcome the odds and hurdles put in front of them.

Every walk of life has its obstacles and teaching is no different but there's no need for all the doom and gloom either. I know plenty of happy teachers who get on well with class after class and have a new set of pupils every year. How so? They must be doing something right in a looked down upon state school to keep getting classes that look up to them and actually listen.

Not all children are the same as was said earlier on in this thread and the corporate world is just as bad. Go into banking and you'll soon see the verbal malice you have to put up with in that line of work as well. People will be people and do what needs to be done to better themselves, suit themselves and put a roof over the table.

Im all for listening to advice and I am all for accepting critiques of my teaching, my aims, my approach to different things but what I won't accept is a blanket generalisation of doom and gloom which is just a form of scaremongering based on previous experiences.

I've sat in schools where children do listen in Wales and I've sat in schools in Southern England where children do listen. Equally, I've sat in schools where there is less control and its harder. Thats life. One business to the next you'll get obstacles thrown at you.

If you think that isn't the truth then go and enter a graduate scheme and watch all the others trying to do what needs to be done to get to the top - women flirting with their bosses, women bitching, men having favourites and promoting those that suit them rather than who's right for the job, men being as two faced as you're ever likely to see - one minute they're on your side, the next minute they'll push you on your way down.

I've seen it all myself and fortunately for me I was not the person involved as I was only an assistant but I've seen women breaking down behind an office desk because of other colleagues. I've seen women worried that their job is being thrown under the bus by someone else and they'll struggle to feed their kids etc. Not pleasant viewing by any stretch.

Im fully aware teaching is going to be tough but find a true profession out there that doesn't have to face struggles and problems and I'll buy you a pint. In web design you get clients trying to rip you off for work and change things and take the pee out of you. In software engineering the same thing. In hardware you get people making mistakes but blaming you for them.

If a pupil shouts some abuse then I will deal with it professionally within the confinements of the schools policy and the law. What they say to me will be water off a ducks back as I've heard a lot worse from web design clients who try and alter the scope of a project 30% of 75% through and then get nasty and in your face when you say 'its not in the contractual agreement so it will cost more'.

What a load of ill-informed and platitudinous nonsense, much like the rest of your 'contributions' to this thread. Please consider deferring to people who have actually taught and so know what they are talking about.

P.S. Fluent in Russian and Mandarin? Really?

This has been a very interesting thread to read, as someone applying for a PGCE this year and with an interview on wednesday. I think I'm pretty well prepared for what a career in teaching would entail - I am fully anticipating disruptive, abusive students; endless, frustrating paperwork; piles and piles of marking etc. But every time I've been in a classroom, I've really enjoyed the experience.

Even in situations where I've had to be the disciplinarian, or where an activity/lesson has been derailed, at the end of the day I still enjoyed things overall. I worry that perhaps I'm not motivated enough - for me it's not really about inspiring the scientists of tomorrow, more about an interesting, challenging career that I enjoy - but I figure that's normal. Ultimately, I won't know until I'm already in too deep to not count as one of the drop-out statistics, but if I was to make a bet, I'd say I'm likely to get through my training, and the next few years, and still want to continue in the profession.

I mean, if I can read through this thread and not be put off, I'm either meant to be a teacher or incredibly deluded.

Seriously, it is exhausting.

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I don't blame you for finding it hard to abandon the idea of learning styles as it sounds plausible but there is absolutely no peer-reviewed research that supports it. The fact schools and universities embraced something with no evidence base is shocking but would come as less of a surprise to you if you knew of some of the other preposterous schemes we have had to endure. Brain Gym is one of the most famous examples.