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Original post by MC armani
I don't see any reason why it couldn't. Britain and Russia stole all the headlines but it was US firepower and personnel that saved the day.
Might as well thank the US for ensuring Europe is still a democratic society
Might as well thank the US for ensuring Europe is still a democratic society
Well I think Hitler had already given up on Britain before America decided to join in so European democracy isn't all down to the US.
I think the answer to your question is no, I don't see how the US could have invaded France without being able to launch the invasion from Britain. Without the distraction of Russia i'm not sure we'd have beaten the Nazi's with the might of America and Britain combined, never mind alone. And don't underestimate the power of Britain at the time, we lost about 400,000 soldiers.
An offensive war against Nazi Germany, from an 'invading' non-European force would have been very very difficult. Perhaps impossible. Russia swung it, they were decisive, they had the biggest army and by far the biggest air force.
Probably as, if they held out until 1945, they could have nuked Germany and won. So all they needed to do was hold out and defend until that time.
I doubt they could have won a conventional offensive though.
I doubt they could have won a conventional offensive though.
(edited 10 years ago)
I think the more important question is, it was impressive that Britain defeated the Germans. But could they do it on a cold Tuesday night in Stoke?
Original post by TheOriginalAng
Probably as, if they held out until 1945, they could have nuked Germany and won. So all they needed to do was hold out and defend until that time.
I doubt they could have won a conventional offensive though.
I doubt they could have won a conventional offensive though.
I somehow doubt that the Americans would've nuked anywhere on the European mainland, nuking Berlin sounds not only stupid but pretty counter productive.
The US didnt really care about Japanese mainland, thats why they nuked it, to save the land invasion.
Original post by Apocrypha
I somehow doubt that the Americans would've nuked anywhere on the European mainland, nuking Berlin sounds not only stupid but pretty counter productive.
The US didnt really care about Japanese mainland, thats why they nuked it, to save the land invasion.
The US didnt really care about Japanese mainland, thats why they nuked it, to save the land invasion.
If conventional invasion wouldn't have worked, and if victory was at stake, of course they would have.
Original post by TheOriginalAng
If conventional invasion wouldn't have worked, and if victory was at stake, of course they would have.
Well theres a theory that the US used stolen Nazi nukes on Japan..
A conventional 1v1 between the US and the Nazi's alone would of resulted in a Nazi victory, they were far more advanced in almost every way in terms of military.
Original post by Apocrypha
Well theres a theory that the US used stolen Nazi nukes on Japan..
A conventional 1v1 between the US and the Nazi's alone would of resulted in a Nazi victory, they were far more advanced in almost every way in terms of military.
A conventional 1v1 between the US and the Nazi's alone would of resulted in a Nazi victory, they were far more advanced in almost every way in terms of military.
There's also a theory that the world is controlled by reptilian aliens...
I never argued against that, which is why I suggested that they'd nuke Germany.
Original post by TheOriginalAng
Probably as, if they held out until 1945, they could have nuked Germany and won. So all they needed to do was hold out and defend until that time.
I doubt they could have won a conventional offensive though.
I doubt they could have won a conventional offensive though.
Original post by Apocrypha
Well theres a theory that the US used stolen Nazi nukes on Japan..
A conventional 1v1 between the US and the Nazi's alone would of resulted in a Nazi victory, they were far more advanced in almost every way in terms of military.
A conventional 1v1 between the US and the Nazi's alone would of resulted in a Nazi victory, they were far more advanced in almost every way in terms of military.
Personally I don't think USA would have won but then again I'm British. How could USA win without the British Commonwealth?
Original post by TheOriginalAng
There's also a theory that the world is controlled by reptilian aliens...
I never argued against that, which is why I suggested that they'd nuke Germany.
I never argued against that, which is why I suggested that they'd nuke Germany.
Theres also a theory, pardon me a fact that a Nazi scientist helped send the man to the moon.
Nuking Germany would be impossible, the plane wouldve been intercepted and shot down. Especially if the US were on the retreat.
No way
Why do you Brits keep forgetting that before the Americans showed up you guys got pushed off of mainland Europe... Hitler could have forgotten about the UK for a year or more after pushing you off, focused on Russia, then went back and invaded Britain. Also without American supplies guess what? You would have lost that battle too
The Nazis invaded the Soviet Union, and began their goal of "Lebensraum" or creating living space and seizing resources. Today certain nation's practice "Lebensraum" but they call it "Natural Growth."
By the end of WWII, 25 to 28 million people had perished in the Soviet Union. They beat back the Nazis....all the way to Berlin. But the price was high, in blood and resources.
When it was determined by the Allies that it would take up to 50,000 Allied casualties to take the city of Berlin, the US and Britain balked. The Russians did the dirty job, and lost 30,000 soldiers in the process.
By 1945 the US and British public were war-weary. The politicians wanted the war to end, or their careers would end.
The Soviet government did not have that problem, they had prepared for a long war, their people willing to sacrifice and fight for years.
There is no way the US and Britain could have beat the Nazis alone. They had the strongest military in the world and knew that Western democracies lacked the staying power to engage in a protracted conflict.
The main reason for the Soviet domination of Eastern Europe was because they needed a buffer zone in case of a future conflict. The Russians had fought the Germans twice in the 20th century, both times they lost massive amounts of people. They were not going to let that happen again.
If the soviets would have been allowed to take all of Germany, then with the German missile technology in their hands alone, The Soviet Union would likely have become the sole military superpower.
America had no interest in safeguarding democracy and only entered the war in order to defend ITSELF against Axis power aggression (initially the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour). If the Japanese had not agreed the "Axis" pact with Germany, then America would never have joined the war against Germany.
Same for Britain
The only ones that saved the world were the
Soviet Union and the French
Why do you Brits keep forgetting that before the Americans showed up you guys got pushed off of mainland Europe... Hitler could have forgotten about the UK for a year or more after pushing you off, focused on Russia, then went back and invaded Britain. Also without American supplies guess what? You would have lost that battle too
The Nazis invaded the Soviet Union, and began their goal of "Lebensraum" or creating living space and seizing resources. Today certain nation's practice "Lebensraum" but they call it "Natural Growth."
By the end of WWII, 25 to 28 million people had perished in the Soviet Union. They beat back the Nazis....all the way to Berlin. But the price was high, in blood and resources.
When it was determined by the Allies that it would take up to 50,000 Allied casualties to take the city of Berlin, the US and Britain balked. The Russians did the dirty job, and lost 30,000 soldiers in the process.
By 1945 the US and British public were war-weary. The politicians wanted the war to end, or their careers would end.
The Soviet government did not have that problem, they had prepared for a long war, their people willing to sacrifice and fight for years.
There is no way the US and Britain could have beat the Nazis alone. They had the strongest military in the world and knew that Western democracies lacked the staying power to engage in a protracted conflict.
The main reason for the Soviet domination of Eastern Europe was because they needed a buffer zone in case of a future conflict. The Russians had fought the Germans twice in the 20th century, both times they lost massive amounts of people. They were not going to let that happen again.
If the soviets would have been allowed to take all of Germany, then with the German missile technology in their hands alone, The Soviet Union would likely have become the sole military superpower.
America had no interest in safeguarding democracy and only entered the war in order to defend ITSELF against Axis power aggression (initially the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour). If the Japanese had not agreed the "Axis" pact with Germany, then America would never have joined the war against Germany.
Same for Britain
The only ones that saved the world were the
Soviet Union and the French
Original post by Savvy Sage
Not really considering German scientists were pioneering nuclear research.
Not really. German would have lost any technological advantage it had by 1942. In fact, one can argue Germany resorted to blitzkrieg tactics because they were incapable of waging a long-lasting resource sapping war.
Personally I don't think USA would have won but then again I'm British. How could USA win without the British Commonwealth?
Not really. German would have lost any technological advantage it had by 1942. In fact, one can argue Germany resorted to blitzkrieg tactics because they were incapable of waging a long-lasting resource sapping war.
Personally I don't think USA would have won but then again I'm British. How could USA win without the British Commonwealth?
In a conventional 1v1 war between the US and Nazi Germany, how would they of lost the technological advantage in 1942? Not getting to specific here, but if you had Germany, and then the US, next to each other, landlocked, the Germans wouldve won. Adding to this, the whole long-lasting resource sapping thing is a result of them fighting on 2 fronts in the actual war, aswell as the Russian winter.
Original post by Savvy Sage
Not really considering German scientists were pioneering nuclear research.
But the USA did get nukes first.
Original post by Apocrypha
Theres also a theory, pardon me a fact that a Nazi scientist helped send the man to the moon.
Nuking Germany would be impossible, the plane wouldve been intercepted and shot down. Especially if the US were on the retreat.
Nuking Germany would be impossible, the plane wouldve been intercepted and shot down. Especially if the US were on the retreat.
Because that makes all the difference
Why would the US be in retreat? I suggested that their victory would involve them defending, not launching an attacked doomed to failure. Also, who's to say that bombers couldn't get through? There were certainly a lot of bombs dropped on cities during WW2, despite strong defence.
Original post by garah
The only ones that saved the world were the
Soviet Union and the French
The only ones that saved the world were the
Soviet Union and the French
Lol, the French? You are having a laugh
Original post by TheOriginalAng
But the USA did get nukes first.
Because that makes all the difference
Why would the US be in retreat? I suggested that their victory would involve them defending, not launching an attacked doomed to failure. Also, who's to say that bombers couldn't get through? There were certainly a lot of bombs dropped on cities during WW2, despite strong defence.
Because that makes all the difference
Why would the US be in retreat? I suggested that their victory would involve them defending, not launching an attacked doomed to failure. Also, who's to say that bombers couldn't get through? There were certainly a lot of bombs dropped on cities during WW2, despite strong defence.
Already said the US wouldnt nuke European Mainland regardless, also, Im talking about conventional warfare.
Original post by TheOriginalAng
Lol, the French? You are having a laugh
The soviet Union did the whole job
The French Resistance was the resistance movement that many in France participated in. They did some armed insurgency actions but the Nazis were extremely brutal and efficient in carrying out reprisals for any attack made upon their soldiers or outposts / supply depots. A minimum of 2 people (perhaps innocent and perhaps not) would be murdered for every German soldier killed and lots of people got tortured. I think the Japanese had the worst form of torture but the German SS had a close second, it wasn't a cake walk of tickle torture or anything like that. The French Resistance also maintained an active transportation network to get downed Allied pilots back to England so they could get back into the fight. Some French Resistance members organized shelters for Jews or personally sheltered Jews in their own homes.and even non-Resistance members often did this as an act of neighborly love for their neighbors who happened to be Jews (watch the movie "Inglorious Bastards").
An interesting but somewhat risque fact is that the German SS would not enter a house when its occupants were having sex, so sometimes a woman of the household would start making out with a pilot in order to prevent the SS from breaking down the door. Those were some lucky pilots, getting sex because the French women either hated the Germans enough or because they thought the pilots were good looking. Who knows and who cares about which one it really was O.o haha.
Free French soldiers participated in many Allied invasions including Normandy. French Resistance fighters sabotaged German supply lines and communications especially in advance of Allied forces fighting in France. They also helped downed Allied airmen escape occupied territory.
French civilians aided the Allies during the invasion by either hiding what they knew of Allied troop movements or by assisting Allied troops in other ways. For ex. a group of airborne troops jumped into France prior to the Normandy invasion and they landed in flooded fields.Those that did not drown managed to swim to dry land but lost most of their weapons and equipment. A farmer and his young daughters hid the men in their barn while they went out into the fields and retrieved the weapons and gear for the troopers, including diving for them.
That's why I mention the French..
Original post by Apocrypha
Already said the US wouldnt nuke European Mainland regardless, also, Im talking about conventional warfare.
They would if it were the difference between victory and defeat.
I'm not talking about conventional warfare and I made it clear from my first post. Conventional warfare was never specified and you argued against my point despite it clearly being unconventional warfare. You must be, therefore, talking about unconventional warfare.
Original post by garah
The soviet Union did the whole job
The French Resistance was the resistance movement that many in France participated in. They did some armed insurgency actions but the Nazis were extremely brutal and efficient in carrying out reprisals for any attack made upon their soldiers or outposts / supply depots. A minimum of 2 people (perhaps innocent and perhaps not) would be murdered for every German soldier killed and lots of people got tortured. I think the Japanese had the worst form of torture but the German SS had a close second, it wasn't a cake walk of tickle torture or anything like that. The French Resistance also maintained an active transportation network to get downed Allied pilots back to England so they could get back into the fight. Some French Resistance members organized shelters for Jews or personally sheltered Jews in their own homes.and even non-Resistance members often did this as an act of neighborly love for their neighbors who happened to be Jews (watch the movie "Inglorious Bastards").
An interesting but somewhat risque fact is that the German SS would not enter a house when its occupants were having sex, so sometimes a woman of the household would start making out with a pilot in order to prevent the SS from breaking down the door. Those were some lucky pilots, getting sex because the French women either hated the Germans enough or because they thought the pilots were good looking. Who knows and who cares about which one it really was O.o haha.
Free French soldiers participated in many Allied invasions including Normandy. French Resistance fighters sabotaged German supply lines and communications especially in advance of Allied forces fighting in France. They also helped downed Allied airmen escape occupied territory.
French civilians aided the Allies during the invasion by either hiding what they knew of Allied troop movements or by assisting Allied troops in other ways. For ex. a group of airborne troops jumped into France prior to the Normandy invasion and they landed in flooded fields.Those that did not drown managed to swim to dry land but lost most of their weapons and equipment. A farmer and his young daughters hid the men in their barn while they went out into the fields and retrieved the weapons and gear for the troopers, including diving for them.
That's why I mention the French..
The French Resistance was the resistance movement that many in France participated in. They did some armed insurgency actions but the Nazis were extremely brutal and efficient in carrying out reprisals for any attack made upon their soldiers or outposts / supply depots. A minimum of 2 people (perhaps innocent and perhaps not) would be murdered for every German soldier killed and lots of people got tortured. I think the Japanese had the worst form of torture but the German SS had a close second, it wasn't a cake walk of tickle torture or anything like that. The French Resistance also maintained an active transportation network to get downed Allied pilots back to England so they could get back into the fight. Some French Resistance members organized shelters for Jews or personally sheltered Jews in their own homes.and even non-Resistance members often did this as an act of neighborly love for their neighbors who happened to be Jews (watch the movie "Inglorious Bastards").
An interesting but somewhat risque fact is that the German SS would not enter a house when its occupants were having sex, so sometimes a woman of the household would start making out with a pilot in order to prevent the SS from breaking down the door. Those were some lucky pilots, getting sex because the French women either hated the Germans enough or because they thought the pilots were good looking. Who knows and who cares about which one it really was O.o haha.
Free French soldiers participated in many Allied invasions including Normandy. French Resistance fighters sabotaged German supply lines and communications especially in advance of Allied forces fighting in France. They also helped downed Allied airmen escape occupied territory.
French civilians aided the Allies during the invasion by either hiding what they knew of Allied troop movements or by assisting Allied troops in other ways. For ex. a group of airborne troops jumped into France prior to the Normandy invasion and they landed in flooded fields.Those that did not drown managed to swim to dry land but lost most of their weapons and equipment. A farmer and his young daughters hid the men in their barn while they went out into the fields and retrieved the weapons and gear for the troopers, including diving for them.
That's why I mention the French..
So you're recognising the French contribution because they aided the Allied invasion but you're not going to recognise the actual invaders?
Regardless of whether the Soviet Union could have won against the European Axis Powers, the British Commonwealth and the US did liberate Western Europe. They also pushed through North Africa and into Italy to defeat Mussolini. All of these acts meant that the Axis were fighting on numerous fronts, decreasing their effectiveness. Undoubtedly, the Russians did do an excellent job, but don't underestimate the contributions of the other Allies.
Original post by TheOriginalAng
They would if it were the difference between victory and defeat.
I'm not talking about conventional warfare and I made it clear from my first post. Conventional warfare was never specified and you argued against my point despite it clearly being unconventional warfare. You must be, therefore, talking about unconventional warfare.
I'm not talking about conventional warfare and I made it clear from my first post. Conventional warfare was never specified and you argued against my point despite it clearly being unconventional warfare. You must be, therefore, talking about unconventional warfare.
Theres no point imagining an unconventional war between the US and Nazi Germany, no one knows what the Nazi's wouldve been capable of if they werent starved of resources and fighting on two fronts, they probably wouldve had nukes, possibly even nukes that were in long range missile form.. I mean they had V2's etc..
Original post by TheOriginalAng
So you're recognising the French contribution because they aided the Allied invasion but you're not going to recognise the actual invaders?
Regardless of whether the Soviet Union could have won against the European Axis Powers, the British Commonwealth and the US did liberate Western Europe. They also pushed through North Africa and into Italy to defeat Mussolini. All of these acts meant that the Axis were fighting on numerous fronts, decreasing their effectiveness. Undoubtedly, the Russians did do an excellent job, but don't underestimate the contributions of the other Allies.
Regardless of whether the Soviet Union could have won against the European Axis Powers, the British Commonwealth and the US did liberate Western Europe. They also pushed through North Africa and into Italy to defeat Mussolini. All of these acts meant that the Axis were fighting on numerous fronts, decreasing their effectiveness. Undoubtedly, the Russians did do an excellent job, but don't underestimate the contributions of the other Allies.
Are you joking the Soviet Union did the whole job!
The british only came because of the Us
And the Us only came because the Soviet Union was about to win
And If the Soviet Union had won
Soviet union+Nazi technology=World Power
That's why the US join the war
(edited 10 years ago)
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