Zidane>Ronaldo=Messi

In my lifetime;

Ronaldo/Messi (to avoid that debate) >>>>> Zidane > Ronaldo > Kaka 2007 > Ronaldinho = Iniesta > Xavi = Henry > Nedved > ...

I would throw Maldini in there, but it may confuse things.

I'd say they have tbh. Especially Iniesta, he's done everything Zidane has plus more.


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As said before, Zidane had an aura that made him into one of these figures that people, on the whole, admired.

I remember the many magnificient moments but also he conjured up moments of rage (most notably in his last match) that made people like him even more in someway. On the pitch, he controlled the game and conjured up many memorable moments.

But for me, if I had to choose to having Zidane or Iniesta, I'd go for the latter. He has his own control on the game, assists, scores, good close ball control, and he delivers. In the 2009 & 2011 CL finals, he helped his team win and scored the winning goal in the 2010 WC. Should he be dismissed to Zidane because he can't head? lol

Eventually, once Iniesta retires, I think he'll be appreciated more than Zidane for his contribution, trophies won.

On their day, maybe Zidane could reach their level but Ronaldo and Messi's consistency puts them ahead of everyone.

And nice try in trying to be all hipster about Zidane. I remember him, and whilst I do remember the genius, I also remember a lot of crap performances and disappearing against the smaller teams.


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This,
Ronaldo and Messi are the two greatest players to ever grace the game. Zizou probably up there with the Ronaldinhos, peles, Maradonas, iniestas etc. but not Ronaldo and Messi.

Also, Iniesta>Xavi at his peak. Although that mother****er was untouchable in the midfield in 09.

Schweinsteigger is comparable to the ballacks, lampards and Gerrards, tier slightly below although pretty amazing at their best, but they couldn't control a game like Iniesta could, although they're more likely to dig your team out of a hole than Iniesta can.

Nah. Ronaldo, Messi, Maradona and Pele. This is the top tier imo. No particular order.

Next tier down would be Iniesta, Zidane (these two really remind me of each other in terms of how they play, how they look and how their careers have gone) and arguably Ronaldinho (from your list, although this tier is very much harder to decide)

That senile old prick ?

Doesn't deserve to lick El Diego's boots. Pele's achievements are vastly embellished, his career total of goals - closer to 500 than the 1,000 he says he scored. And most of those were in a really weak regional, state Brazilian league, not the national league. The equivalent of Rooney scoring hat tricks every week in a Greater Manchester or Lancashire league including teams like Rochdale and Bury instead of the Premier League.

Also if you read up on the Brazilian team of the 60's and 70's, Pele was never their star player (Garrincha & Jairzinho were widely considered to be their best).

I've always rated Eusebio higher and his footage you can see is more impressive. His record of 600+ goals, many of which were against the cream of the European crop in the 60's, hold far more weight than Pele's. And if you look at his achievements with Portugal, achieving 3rd place in '66 at a time when Portugal never even qualified for a World Cup. 2 European Cups and runners up 3 times with Benfica too. Sure Pele won 3 World Cups with Brazil, probably the 2nd greatest international team of all time, absolutely rammed with star players. How's Eusebio gonna win a WC with Portugal ?

I think it's absurd when people hold Pele in higher esteem than Eusebio and I'm not just saying that cos he carked it recently, been saying it for years, probably even posted it on here before.



Ronaldinho's peak was too short but as far as entertainment goes, yeah.

Santos were not a bad side, by any stretch of the imagination.

Looking through Emilio Castaño's statistical analysis of Pelé's goal-scoring feats, you can't help but notice irregularities.

Scoreline Pelé's goals
Santos 11-0 Botafogo Ribeirão Preto 8
Santos 11-1 Maringá 5
Santos 10-3 Nitro-Química 5
Santos 10-0 Nacional 5
Santos 10-1 Royal Neerschot 5
Santos 10-2 Guarani 5
Santos 10-1 Juventus 5

The eight goals Pelé scored against Botafogo didn't come against the Botafogo.

It came against a side bearing the same name and whose only achievement was producing the late great Sócrates.

It's not the Uruguayan Nacional but some state side in São Paulo. The same applies to Juventus—not the European one, but another irrelevant state side.

Using a modern-day example, it's like Chelsea beating up on Brentford and Leyton Orient in a separate London league.

Even Fernando Torres would score goals against those sides.

They were one of the best sides ever, listed 7th greatest ever club side in FourFourTwo's magazine a few months back. I would say Pele was their main player. They won the intercontinental cup twice in 1962 and 1963. Coincidentally, beating Benfica, and Milan. Yes, Eusebio was not at his peak at this point imo, but it was still indicative of how good Santos were and how good Pele was. They toured the world playing high profile friendlies rather than playing in the Copa Libertadores after winning it twice in 1962 and 1963. They tried to play Di Stefano's Real Madrid but never suggested , it was widely believed that Madrid feared being given a lesson. Pele, btw, was their highest paid player and they struggled to pay his wages. So, by all extents their star player.

Some scores, and there were many:
Santos 4 - 1 Inter
Santos 5 - 2 Eintracht Frankfurt
Santos 4 - 2 Sheffield Wednesday
Santos 5 - 2 Benfica
Santos 4 - 0 Benfica

I accept that he had a lot of great players playing with him, but so have Messi and Ronaldo. I can also go on the word of my Dad who saw Pele play with Santos live, way back in time, and he claims also that Pele was that good. In my honest opinion though, in a world of fine margins, Maradona was the best player of all time simply because all throughout his career he won. Not just that , he did it with balls, with handicaps.
Being very short, carrying relatively bad teams to world cups, going to a small club in Italy to prove a point that he could carry them to Serie A almost single handed with divine interventions at times (and against a very tough league with opponents that had way more resources). Maradona is my favourite ever player though, i am a bit biased. He had balls of steel in addition to the ability that Messi has.

When Pelé compiled his 125 greatest living footballers list, he didn't include many of his teammates.

Regarding the teammates that made the cut: There are two of the greatest right-backs ever in Carlos Alberto and Djalma Santos. Then there is one of the greatest left-backs ever in Nílton Santos. Also a marvelous midfielder in Rivelino.

Here are Pelé's teammates who were ineligible for his list: Garrincha (inspired Brazil to win the 1962 FIFA World Cup), Vavá (scored three goals in two World Cup finals) and Didi (1958 World Cup Golden Ball winner).

Pelé shockingly omitted teammates: Gérson, Jairzinho, Gilmar, Tostão, Zito, Bellini and Zagallo.

I read into the omissions as Pelé's way of downplaying his teammate's role in his success.

I would have liked to see Pelé symbolically include Santos strike partner Coutinho on the list as a way of saying thank you. After all, they did supposedly combine for over 1,000 goals.

I'll never forget what Gérson, who was Pelé's Xavi, said this about his role in that legendary 1970 World Cup team:



It was disgraceful that Pelé forgot about the thousands of passes Gérson made.

Gérson displayed anger towards Pele's list. He was adamant with the ruling and thought that he and a few of his teammates deserved a spot on the list. He symbolically ripped up a piece of paper, a clear representation of Pele's list, on a local broadcasting station saying that, "I respect his opinion, but I don't agree. Apart from Zidane, Platini, and Fontaine, I'm behind 11 Frenchmen? It's a joke to hear this."

x

How is rating Zidane hipster mate?

Hipster is starting a discussion about Gustavo at Wolfsburg or some ****. Just really like Zidane and think the obsession with Ronaldo/Messi, who are both out of this world, leaves Zidane who was up there forgotten. When I was growing up he was as good as it got.

Well, no he hasn't. Zidane has scored better goals than Iniesta. Zidane can take free-kicks, Zidane can header. Zidane has won FIFA World Player of the Year three times. Zidane has almost single-handedly taken his country to a world cup final. Zidane is more of a big-game player. Zidane could pull off better tricks.

What does Iniesta have that Zidane does not.

Pele was obviously great, but there are a fair few players who's achievements are far more impressive. Maradona, Messi, Eusebio, Puskas. Obviously I have not watched all of these week in week out, so I can only go by the history books and judge by those (which is more informed than most people who just rattle off Pele's name as the automatic greatest in the same way people do it with Ali without having ever watched a fight). But Pele likes to base his argument as the greatest on stats so I'm just making a point others have more impressive stats than he does. There is no argument to convince me Pele is the greatest or even on the same tier as those guys.

He's an imposter.

I was more on about your "you had to have seen him to know how good he was" line.

I enjoyed watching Zidane as much as anyone but he was far from perfect, still an all time great though.

From what I've seen in my lifetime, Messi (GOAT IMO) > C. Ronaldo > Ronaldo > Zidane = Iniesta > Xavi > Ronaldinho > Kaka.

Kind of unfair on defenders but it's the nature of the game tbh.


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Even better than Maradona? Really?

this thread has not been done before.... a bunch of teenagers salivating over youtubes of ronaldo vs messi, as if footabll was invented from 2004/ zindane vintage?? What about THE original Ronaldo of brazil? Pele? Socrates? Falcao? Zico? Cruyf? Platini? Garrincha? and the greatest of them all M-A-R-A-D-O-N-A