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TSR scares me

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Haha!

But yes, the news came across as really freaky... or at least to me.
Original post by Steevee
I think you'll find the majority of vocal 'Feminists' do anything but support men's rights.

They pay them lip service during their rants about 'Patriarchy' but they certainly do not support them in any real sense.


Well I am a vocal feminist that strongly advocates for mens rights *shrug*

I think improving mens rights helps women, and improving womens rights helps men. It's counterproductive not to care about both genders.
Reply 162
Original post by redferry
Well I am a vocal feminist that strongly advocates for mens rights *shrug*

I think improving mens rights helps women, and improving womens rights helps men. It's counterproductive not to care about both genders.


Then you are in the minority.

And I agree, hence why I reject Feminism and instead would promote Gender Equality/Egalitarianism.
Original post by fallen_acorns


So if you see what I mean, whilst not strictly right, it is probably explainable, why men would be less likely to side with other men (their main rivals) whereas women would be more likely to blindly agree with their own (their main allies)


women are more social and band together. same happens in every social mammal species there is, it's biological. females don't live outside the group, they are not strong enough to survive by themselves. actually, the other day i was watching a bunch of female lions trying to take down a giraffe and they just couldn't do it. then out of nowhere a male lion shows up and the giraffe is down within seconds. a woman kicked out of the group 200000 years ago would have meant a death sentence. and that **** stays with you for a long, long time down the evolutionary line.
Original post by Robbie242
But is that right? Is that not imposing the view that social work holds the same value as the traditional male jobs? When it may or may not... Social work is meant to be fairly low paid anyway... also isn't that projecting a message to females to get more involved in social work since it reaps higher/similar rewards to a more challenging equivalent (that sounded snobbish but I'm talking of getting more women into the sciences rather than education. humanities and social work). It doesn't seem like a wholly positive impact tbh

Yes but what did feminism do to improve these abortion rights? I'm pretty sure mothers and fathers etc pursued greater abortion rights, rather than feminism as a whole

Is there a massive statistical difference between then and today? have you got some evidence to back up your claims?

what is jfgi


I am of the firm belief that child social work is one of the toughest jobs in this country.
I don't know if you know much about having to take children away from their distraught parents who love them very much but just don't know how to look after them/have addiction problems and dealing with badly abused and criminal children on a day to day basis only to be hounded by the press and government and blamed for either taking too many children from their parents or for the death of children at the hands of their parents depending on the media furore at the time.

given they were being paid far less than bin men I feel the pay rise to bring it in line was more than fair.

The idea of 'feminism as a whole' is silly, obviously different groups have different objectives! I for one don't give a crap about page 3. But it is feminist groups that continue to kick up a fuss every time they try and lower the abortion limit.

jfgi - just ****ing google it!
Reply 165
Original post by redferry
Equal pay: There have been massive pay outs in jobs that are traditionally womens jobs, for example social work, over the past 5 years or so, especially in the midlands. Pay in these jobs have been brought into line with traditional male jobs in a way it never has been before.


I cannot see how this is right. Increasing the pay of jobs where there are a lot of women because there are jobs that pay better where there are a lot of men? A social worker does not deserve as much as a miner - simple as.

redferry
abortion rights: free easy access to abortions which wasn't anywhere near as available 10 years ago. Also preventing the abortion limit being lowered.


In 2002 there were 175,932 abortions in England in Wales. In 2012 there were 185,122, where medical abortions accounted for 48% of those. That does not indicate to me a massive increase in availability, not that there really needs to be any given how available it has been for years.
On top of that, preventing the abortion limit from being lowered is a medical debate, not a women's rights one. It is not up to either men or women to decide when terminations should legally be banned, it is up to medical professionals.

redferry
Ten years ago far more women lost their jobs through pregnancy


Source?
Original post by Steevee
Then you are in the minority.

And I agree, hence why I reject Feminism and instead would promote Gender Equality/Egalitarianism.


Feminism for me is about equality, but as a woman I speak out most against the things that directly affect me. That doesn't mean I ignore mens issues but it does make me a feminist because obviously I'm more affected by 'women's problems'.

The thing I most often speak about is sexual assault. But I strongly advocate better support for men in similar situations, whilst acknowledging it is more common for women to be victims and that I really hate having my arse grabbed/people randomly trying to finger me.
Original post by CJKay
I cannot see how this is right. Increasing the pay of jobs where there are a lot of women because there are jobs that pay better where there are a lot of men? A social worker does not deserve as much as a miner - simple as.


It's all council jobs so nothing like mining.
Given the drop-out rate, demonisation and horrible conditions associated with social work it's really only fair.





In 2002 there were 175,932 abortions in England in Wales. In 2012 there were 185,122, where medical abortions accounted for 48% of those. That does not indicate to me a massive increase in availability, not that there really needs to be any given how available it has been for years.
On top of that, preventing the abortion limit from being lowered is a medical debate, not a women's rights one. It is not up to either men or women to decide when terminations should legally be banned, it is up to medical professionals.


god I always forget how old I am, I was thinking of like the 90s at 10 years ago :/

you cant deny their good at blocking attempts to lower the abortion limit though



Source?


bleurgh I'll try and dig one out later
Reply 168
Original post by redferry
It's all council jobs so nothing like mining.
Given the drop-out rate, demonisation and horrible conditions associated with social work it's really only fair.


Nothing to do with feminism. "Because there are lots of women" does not make it a women's rights issue. Pay across jobs is a union issue.

redferry
god I always forget how old I am, I was thinking of like the 90s at 10 years ago :/

you cant deny their good at blocking attempts to lower the abortion limit though

bleurgh I'll try and dig one out later


Again, I still fail to see how feminism has any right to intervene just because it involves women. It also involves unborn babies of either gender and they are the losers if feminism makes a wrong step, not the doctors.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 169
Original post by redferry
Feminism for me is about equality, but as a woman I speak out most against the things that directly affect me. That doesn't mean I ignore mens issues but it does make me a feminist because obviously I'm more affected by 'women's problems'.

The thing I most often speak about is sexual assault. But I strongly advocate better support for men in similar situations, whilst acknowledging it is more common for women to be victims and that I really hate having my arse grabbed/people randomly trying to finger me.


Fair enough, but modern Feminism has alienated most and has certainly lost it's claim to being impartially egalitarian.

I wonder, do you buy into the narrative about victim-blaming and slut-shaming as a real problem? It seems to me to be something that characterises the modern Feminist movement. There is a small percentage of people, a very small percentage, of both genders that actually engage in such behavior, but it presented by the modern Feminist movement as a huge problem. You get the same issue surrounding rape culture. The issue is blown out of all proportion by the Feminist agenda, then propagated by it and you end up simply alienating men from your cause.

I'd defy you to find more than 1 in 100 people that honestly believe 'She was wearing that so she was asking for it!' or similar, heck I think 1 in 100 would be rather high, and yet this is presented as such a huge issue? And because of the emotive nature of the issue you see people who are genuinely trying to help, such as advising women how to avoid attack in some situations, be branded as Misogynists, which again simply alienates yet more men from this modern brand of Feminism. Modern Feminism seems to be combative at every turn and everything is blamed on men, either explicitly such as with 'Rape Culture' or implicitly with the 'Patriarchy' argument. Surely you can see why it's difficult for any man to even want to align themselves with the modern Feminist movement?
Original post by CJKay
Nothing to do with feminism. "Because there are lots of women" does not make it a women's rights issue. Pay across jobs is a union issue.



Again, I still fail to see how feminism has any right to intervene just because it involves women. It also involves unborn babies of either gender and they are the losers if feminism makes a wrong step, not the doctors.


foetus. It ain't no baby at 24 weeks.

It's a womens rights issue - womens rights v foetus rights really.

It's also a mental health illness issue given the amount of women having late term abortions who have mental health problems.
Reply 171
Original post by redferry
foetus. It ain't no baby at 24 weeks.

It's a womens rights issue - womens rights v foetus rights really.

It's also a mental health illness issue given the amount of women having late term abortions who have mental health problems.


Like I said, that's up to the medical boards to decide - not you or any "feminist".

Mental health issues come under medical issues.
Original post by Steevee
Fair enough, but modern Feminism has alienated most and has certainly lost it's claim to being impartially egalitarian.

I wonder, do you buy into the narrative about victim-blaming and slut-shaming as a real problem? It seems to me to be something that characterises the modern Feminist movement. There is a small percentage of people, a very small percentage, of both genders that actually engage in such behavior, but it presented by the modern Feminist movement as a huge problem. You get the same issue surrounding rape culture. The issue is blown out of all proportion by the Feminist agenda, then propagated by it and you end up simply alienating men from your cause.


I think things like Staubenville made me feel slut shaming and rape culture is still an issue. Rape culture is a real issue of mine because I have been a victim of it and so have others I know. When you see a guy walking out a club dragging an unconscious girl laughing about he's going to get laid, and behaviour of that ilk as regularly as you do at Uni then the alarm bells do start to go that this is a bigger problem than you were aware of previously. I wouldn't say I alienate men with it though, most of my male friends are on side having seen it with their own eyes.


I'd defy you to find more than 1 in 100 people that honestly believe 'She was wearing that so she was asking for it!' or similar, heck I think 1 in 100 would be rather high, and yet this is presented as such a huge issue? And because of the emotive nature of the issue you see people who are genuinely trying to help, such as advising women how to avoid attack in some situations, be branded as Misogynists, which again simply alienates yet more men from this modern brand of Feminism. Modern Feminism seems to be combative at every turn and everything is blamed on men, either explicitly such as with 'Rape Culture' or implicitly with the 'Patriarchy' argument. Surely you can see why it's difficult for any man to even want to align themselves with the modern Feminist movement?


I wouldn't say that was my main issue at all, it's more 'it's ok to have sex with a girl who is so drunk she can barely see' and not understanding having sex with an unconscious girl constitutes rape. Then things like judging someones worth as a friend on how many people they have slept with.

I date a male feminist so I don't think it can be THAT difficult! You just need to accept feminism is a movement and different people within it have different views. It is what you make it. I don't judge all right wingers by the BNP or all left wingers by the USSR or all black rights activists by Malcom X.
Original post by CJKay
Like I said, that's up to the medical boards to decide - not you or any "feminist".

Mental health issues come under medical issues.


but the current limit is set by medical boards...

I'm on the side of science and evidence where it is available over any bias I may hold.
Original post by Eva.Gregoria
Specifically the women hating men. It's scary how many men really despise women on here.

I didn't care much for feminism before I came here but this has really opened my eyes on how much hate women received in the past and that they continue to receive even now. I've only been here since November last year and I'm sure there have been in excess of a 100 woman hating threads.

It's truly terrifying what many men think about women out there. The fact that its anonymous opinions really could only mean that many people you see in real life have this horrible opinions. How did this happen?

Posted from TSR Mobile


For clarity, add a hyphen -

'women-hating men'.
Hate women? Where? The only women-hating I see going on on TSR is the hating of the "feminist"-whiners who won't shut up! Men do not hate women.
Reply 176
Original post by redferry
I think things like Staubenville made me feel slut shaming and rape culture is still an issue. Rape culture is a real issue of mine because I have been a victim of it and so have others I know. When you see a guy walking out a club dragging an unconscious girl laughing about he's going to get laid, and behaviour of that ilk as regularly as you do at Uni then the alarm bells do start to go that this is a bigger problem than you were aware of previously. I wouldn't say I alienate men with it though, most of my male friends are on side having seen it with their own eyes.



I wouldn't say that was my main issue at all, it's more 'it's ok to have sex with a girl who is so drunk she can barely see' and not understanding having sex with an unconscious girl constitutes rape. Then things like judging someones worth as a friend on how many people they have slept with.

I date a male feminist so I don't think it can be THAT difficult! You just need to accept feminism is a movement and different people within it have different views. It is what you make it. I don't judge all right wingers by the BNP or all left wingers by the USSR or all black rights activists by Malcom X.


Well I'd disagree that such a thing is 'Rape Culture,' this is a moniker you Feminists have given such a thing. Staubenville is not an example of 'Rape Culture' it's an example of people of one group supporting their own, you'll find the condemnation of the boys involved was widespread, the defense was minimal and from a few select sources. Those sources had a vested interest in the males, be it family, friends, or one or two news media outlets in the US that are traditionally defenders of the athletic young man. This is the issue I have with 'Rape Culture,' in order for it to be such a thing it would have to be a culture, it is not. And many a time the drunk girl is walking out with an equally drunk guy, there is an issue around consent to be sure, but there is also an issue around personal responsibility and knowing a situation before you pass judgement. I've more than once supported a girl out of a club when she was too drunk and taken her home, in one instance I went on to do things with that girl, but there was consent before, during and afterwards. Other times I have supported a girl home when drunk and done nothing either out because I or they were too drunk or simply because I was helping them home. Again, there is an issue around certain groups of people being ready to accuse and being ready to abdicate responsibility.

And again, men know not to have sex with an unconscious girl. Drunk consent is a contentious issue.

I imagine your male feminist has the same views as you? Let us say the majority of men are alienated by the modern brand of vocal Feminism, the likes of which you see on Tumblr, in Wordpress blogs and on Youtube.
Reply 177
Original post by The_Dragonborn
Hate women? Where? The only women-hating I see going on on TSR is the hating of the "feminist"-whiners who won't shut up! Men do not hate women.

There are plenty of men who hate women. That's not to say they hate them for the duration of their lives (given that it seems the hate is often down to limited meaningful interaction with a range of women, combined with various frustrations), or that it's anything but a tiny minority. But of course there are men who hate women.
Reply 178
It'd be nice if people stopped making issues gender based when they are in fact class based.
Original post by Steevee
Well I'd disagree that such a thing is 'Rape Culture,' this is a moniker you Feminists have given such a thing. Staubenville is not an example of 'Rape Culture' it's an example of people of one group supporting their own, you'll find the condemnation of the boys involved was widespread, the defense was minimal and from a few select sources.


so you wouldn't say that fox news has a rape culture?


Those sources had a vested interest in the males, be it family, friends, or one or two news media outlets in the US that are traditionally defenders of the athletic young man. This is the issue I have with 'Rape Culture,' in order for it to be such a thing it would have to be a culture, it is not. And many a time the drunk girl is walking out with an equally drunk guy, there is an issue around consent to be sure, but there is also an issue around personal responsibility and knowing a situation before you pass judgement. I've more than once supported a girl out of a club when she was too drunk and taken her home, in one instance I went on to do things with that girl, but there was consent before, during and afterwards. Other times I have supported a girl home when drunk and done nothing either out because I or they were too drunk or simply because I was helping them home. Again, there is an issue around certain groups of people being ready to accuse and being ready to abdicate responsibility.


well when you've had someone try to have sex with you when you are asleep and incredibly drunk and not even realise it constituted rape, spoken to your peers and had a similar response off then come back to me and say that you don't think that's a cultural problem. That was my first year of Uni wake up call...

I just wish people would think a bit more.


And again, men know not to have sex with an unconscious girl. Drunk consent is a contentious issue.

I imagine your male feminist has the same views as you? Let us say the majority of men are alienated by the modern brand of vocal Feminism, the likes of which you see on Tumblr, in Wordpress blogs and on Youtube.


I know most men know! Nah he has different views to me on a number of things but we chat them through and usually one of us goes one way or the other.

it's difficult. I just think there's generally a problem of genders not empathising with each other, which works both ways.

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