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Is this image racist?

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Original post by Maths and cheesecake
IT doesn't matter what context you put this image in tbh, you are a racist for thinking that it matters, the context does not change the disgusting image.

This image is, disturbingly perverted and demeaning to women and particularly black women, therefor it is a grossly anti-woman and racist at that.


Why are you picking on this user in particular? A lot of people on this thread have said they don't think the pic is racist!!
Original post by River85
But even if a few interpretations are racist, does that make it racist? It is only an image after all.



What better ways?

Surely it's doing its job - getting people to talk about it.



So actually in a supportive role, then.



I'm utterly staggered that so few people take what I think is such a simple interpretation of it. Perhaps it's a poor image, but I like it.


Each to his own I guess, I can't say your interpretation is wrong. The key thing here is the photographer/model's intentions.

However I do think there is a limit to the allowance you give to the subjectivity of an image against it's obvious interpretation. If I take an image of a white person pissing on a black person am I making a bold and provocative statement criticising the brutal treatment of black people by European empires? Or am I simply being racist?
I don't think so. Although, I'm not entirely sure what is happening.

Sideboob is nice, though.
Reply 83
Original post by River85
Of course. What does a chair do? It supports someone's weight and posture.


A chair does indeed support it's user, but I am still not convinced by your rather naive interpretation of the image. Your argument would be plausible if the chair was wrought in the image of a hand, a black woman's hand. However it's not a hand but it's fashioned in the image of an overly sexualised black woman lying on her back with her legs straddled to her chest by the means of a belt. This raises further questions and pokes more holes in your theory, for example, why is the "supportive" black woman topless while the "supported" white woman is conservatively dressed?


Lots of different reasons. Use your imagination. To symbolise a coming together of black and white feminism.

I believe this is a ridiculous statement because it's counterproductive to use an image of a white woman physically oppressing a black woman to promote interracial feminism.

Or just to simply symbolise the relationship that does exist between the black woman, producing the goods needed to support the white woman.


And that's not racist? To imply that the role of a black women in society is serving much wealthier white women?

Your argument is crumbling before you.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 84
Not racist if the black woman chose to sit like that.

Racist if the woman is depicted as a chair because it implies that the white person is better than her and is treating her like a slave. Even if the woman wasn't black, the image would still piss me off because you shouldn't never put someone else higher than you.
Original post by Maximillion.

Spoiler



It is not racist, anybody who says it is needs their head looking at.
Reply 86
Original post by Kandybars
Okay, ignore the overcoming racism part, I was just trying to think of an answer for if the picture is the other way round but I didn't say that black people were the only race to suffer from racism. It's what the picture demonstrated so it's what I chose to talk about. I spend a lot of time on tumblr and a lot of the time, whenever a PoC decides to talk about their experiences of racism, a white person decides to bring up their own experiences of 'reverse racism'. Just as one white person who was harassed by a PoC does not prove 'reverse racism', one black president does not prove the end of racism. A couple of incidences experienced is not the same as experiencing racism constantly. Even if you're a PoC and are not affected by racism, you at least know someone who has and know how it affects others who have it worse than you (especially those in some states in America). To claim 'reverse racism' does exist somewhat diminishes other experiences of racism, almost as if those who claim to have experienced 'reverse racism' want to join in on the fun. Interpersonal conflict does not threaten the power of whiteness or render the suffering of racism equal along lines of race.
"When white people complain about experiencing reverse racism, what they’re really complaining about is losing out on or being denied their already existing privileges. And while it may feel bad to realize your privilege is crumbling and the things you’ve taken for granted can be taken away from you, it is unfair, untrue, and disingenuous to call that experience reverse racism."

"Racism exists when prejudice+power combine to form social constructs, legislation and widespread media bias that contribute to the oppression of the rights and liberties of a group of people. Racism is systemic, institutional, and far reaching. It is the prevalence of racism within social structures and institutional norms, along with implicit and explicit enforcement by members of a group, that allows racism to run rampant and unchecked."
Just thought I'd insert those quotes to support my ideas. You don't have to agree with them but at least try to understand. Kinda stopped talking about the picture bur ueah, I felt this needed to be said. (http://feminspire.com/why-reverse-racism-isnt-real/).


1. No, but on what grounds, at least in Western civilisation, can you say that black people experience racism "constantly"? You are overstating the severity of racism towards black people in the West. It happens, yes; but it happens to many races, in many forms.

2. No, it does not diminish the history of racism towards black people, but it does show that times have changed. As I said: this is not the 18th, 19th or even 20th century any more. The fact is slavery happened, and now it's over. To suggest that reverse racism cannot exist because one race previously suffered tougher hardships is very, very illogical.

3. No, they could be complaining about racial violence; unfair racial jokes made because it's politically correct to make racist jokes about white people, but not about black people; verbal abuse and being ostracised from their community because they have become the minority themselves.

4. As you'd expect, I disagree entirely with the source. It propounds an overall view which I feel is dangerous and also untrue to a large extent.
As a black person I couldn't really care less tbh. I'm not fussed at all.
Reply 88
Original post by River85
Or rather

1. The black woman is supporting the white woman (she is not UNDER the chair, she IS the chair).
2. My original interpretation, that the black woman is subservient/being manipulated. But this is simply an observation of what is currently happening. Raising questions about racism and feminism, but not make any judgement.

Again, if I say "women across Africa and the Carribbean are being used to provide goods and luxuries to affluent white women" is this racist? So why is it any different if we put it as a picture, which has a far greater impact, instead of words?



there are ways of putting things across this picture is pretty racist wat u said '"women across Africa and the Caribbean are being used to provide goods and luxuries to affluent white women" aint ur merely raising a fact. add a few abusive languages and switch words around it'll be offensive rephrase in a way ur offending black women or white people in may be racist so it all depends on how you say it/type it
Had it been the other way around and a half naked white woman in a weird sexual position was being used as a chair by a fully clothed ordinary looking black woman, I would regard that is racism also, but lets be truthful, I just find the actual image a tat bit more racist because black people are a minority in this country.

Another thing I want to point out is that the image is extremely sexist, I don't care if the both of them are women, there are many magazines that I find sexist because they demean women, so does this image.

However way you could interpret this does not change the fact that is is a sexist, racist image, if you try to justify it by throwing a cloud of ambiguity over the context, well I'm sorry, still racist and sexist.

Also some people thought this was an exciting sexual imagery, again, I'm sorry but racist porn is still racist, I have seen as part of my research racist porn before and I found nothing exciting or enjoyable about it, it is disgusting and so are the people who defend it.
Yes it is racist. And has to be put in context. Throughout history, e.g during slavery, white people have been on top, and this pictures depicts that. It portrays an image that black people are beneath white people and that black people are possessions that can be owned by white people and consequently can be 'used' in any way.

Those who say 'it isn't' are missing the point.

On a slightly separate point, as a black woman, I'm constantly being 'told' by the papers, academic studies, tv (ads) etc that my race is ugly and unintelligent. And now this photo shows that Im nothing more than a possession that can be brought and sold.
Original post by Amy Williams
Why are you picking on this user in particular? A lot of people on this thread have said they don't think the pic is racist!!

Not picking on her at all, I just found it weird that a girl could not spot the blatant sexism/racism in this picture, for us guys it is a bit more difficult because sex is constantly on our mind so we are easily distracted when we see side boobs and such.
Reply 92
I genuinely do not understand the people who are saying that picture is racist. I would understand if their arguments were a hell of a lot more sophisticated than the arguments to the contrary, but they're not. They're genuinely just 'black woman is in a subordinate position, therefore racist'. Some people clearly need to gain some critical analysis skills/get out of the house more.
i just dislike it a lot.
Original post by OMG TOOTHBRUSH
Context is important, however I would say it really isn't. The model happens to be black, but so what? If they were both white I doubt anybody would have any objections to that image. Should she have not chosen the model because she's black? That would be discriminatory.

People are way to sensitive, it's quite pathetic.


Good points.

But I would still object if they were both white, the problem is not just racism but also degrading and humiliating women.

Just imagine if it was a white guy using a black man as a chair, everyone would acknowledge that something was clearly wrong, but because it is women in this image we sort of don't mind, well that my friend is sexism and is wrong.
Reply 95
I couldn't care less about the intentions of the photographer because when we critique art we focus primarily at the product of the artist's work. It certainly makes me feel uncomfortable. As we all know, coming across an image of a black woman in western fashion is pretty rare, so for this sort of chair to be used to prop up the elegance of white beauty is, imo, very risky ground to be treading upon. Having said that, if I came across this in a magazine I wouldn't waste my time complaining about it and just move on. Not everything is created with the comfort of black women readers in mind.
Reply 96
No. Just bizarre.


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Original post by McMurdo
1. No, but on what grounds, at least in Western civilisation, can you say that black people experience racism "constantly"? You are overstating the severity of racism towards black people in the West. It happens, yes; but it happens to many races, in many forms.

2. No, it does not diminish the history of racism towards black people, but it does show that times have changed. As I said: this is not the 18th, 19th or even 20th century any more. The fact is slavery happened, and now it's over. To suggest that reverse racism cannot exist because one race previously suffered tougher hardships is very, very illogical.

3. No, they could be complaining about racial violence; unfair racial jokes made because it's politically correct to make racist jokes about white people, but not about black people; verbal abuse and being ostracised from their community because they have become the minority themselves.

4. As you'd expect, I disagree entirely with the source. It propounds an overall view which I feel is dangerous and also untrue to a large extent.


Argh, you don't bloody understand but I'm still gonna respond. You can't simply say that just because slavery is over, times have changed and racism no longer exists so everyone should just shut up about it and be glad that it ended. This is why the curriculum includes cross-curricular topics such as black history month (even though it might be seen as tokenism...learnt that from sociology). And for the last ****ing time,
Kandybars
I didn't say that black people were the only race to suffer from racism.
When I say constant racism, I don't mean every single day of their lives, I just mean that it's constant in a way that it's never going to end because it hasn't been overcome yet...that's if it ever will be. Although you may claim that 'reverse racism' does exist, the experiences of white people are not the same, nor are they on the same scale as the racism that PoC experience. I guess white people can be discriminated against but it is NOT the same as racism. Racism against white people has not been integrated into society in the same way it has been against other races, especially in America where pretty much every race is seen as inferior, particularly in certain states. Just look at the way people have to define themselves - African American, Asian American...even Native American even though they were the ones who had their land stolen from them! But yet whist people are simply seen as Americans. Not Caucasian American if from Europe or anything like that but yeah, just as Americans. Racism refers to patterns of discrimination that are normal, which is why we are fighting against it, to make it seem less and less normal because it shouldn't exist. It's based on the ideology that one race is more superior than others. The fact that positive discrimination exists just proves that reverse racism CANNOT exist. I think you're ignoring the fact that racism equates power. A white person can be insulted by a PoC but nonetheless, they STILL possess more power than them. Okay, the PoC has the power to to hurt their feelings and make them feel scared etc, (and no acts of discrimination can ever be justified), but not to OPPRESS them which is completely different. I strongly believe that 'reverse racism' is an attempt to ignore the history of racism and it's institutionalised consequences instead of recognising that experiences are different and always will be. This is why I hate talking about race. :frown:
Reply 98
Original post by Ronove
I genuinely do not understand the people who are saying that picture is racist. I would understand if their arguments were a hell of a lot more sophisticated than the arguments to the contrary, but they're not. They're genuinely just 'black woman is in a subordinate position, therefore racist'. Some people clearly need to gain some critical analysis skills/get out of the house more.


Some of their points are crudely put but, if we put aside the intentions of the photographer for a sec, you could see why this image is troubling to some. It's not just a black woman in a subordinate position, it is a black person in a subordinate position in an industry that rejects pretty much all types of beauty except for white beauty. The white woman is fully clothed and placed in an elegant yet empowering position whilst the black woman is bound up and reduced to one purpose only; providing comfort for the white woman. That coupled with the history of race relations between black and white people makes for an incredibly alienating image.

I'm struggling to find a positive interpretation of this image so if you have a different spin on it I'd be really interested to hear it.
Reply 99
Original post by Chihiro95
Some of their points are crudely put but, if we put aside the intentions of the photographer for a sec, you could see why this image is troubling to some. It's not just a black woman in a subordinate position, it is a black person in a subordinate position in an industry that rejects pretty much all types of beauty except for white beauty. The white woman is fully clothed and placed in an elegant yet empowering position whilst the black woman is bound up and reduced to one purpose only; providing comfort for the white woman. That coupled with the history of race relations between black and white people makes for an incredibly alienating image.

I'm struggling to find a positive interpretation of this image so if you have a different spin on it I'd be really interested to hear it.

Why would you assume that the image was supportive of this dynamic, though? Generally the way to challenge such dynamics is to point them out, which this image does. Why would you assume the artist/photographer intended to support the continuation/return of this dynamic, rather than simply to draw attention to its existence? That would be career suicide, hence why I find the idea that this could have been the intention absolutely ridiculous.

If the matter is simply one of aesthetic composition, with no thought as to the implications (as to how it callously ignores the position of black women in fashion) whatsoever, then yes it is stupid that at least someone involved isn't educated enough to realise that it might take the piss, as it were, of the issues surrounding black women in fashion magazines. However that's the extent of it, surely - carelessness and ignorance. They probably decided to use a shocking chair, and chose the black one because it provided a better colour dynamic in the photo. The white one would have caused the photo to lack interest.

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