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Original post by FredOrJohn
Normally the people in the political debate also have the vote. It would seem a tad silly to pick someone who has no say - but if you say he should have a say, then logically you are also saying, everyone in the uk should have a say. Eg the referendum should be UK wide.

I don't see why snp voters can't see that - give us all a say or just keep the say to people based in scotland....


The problem with that is that Cameron is clearly taking part in 'the debate' but just won't "debate" live on TV.

Both sides should just stop being so hypocritical about this.
Original post by MatureStudent36


it would be like Obama, Hollande or Merkel debating in a general election.


Not really. Cameron is Prime Minister of the UK, which includes Scotland.

If Cameron though it would be to BT's advantage or that he needed to, he would do it.
Original post by Midlander
How do you lower taxes and increase spending without losing even more money?


Posted from TSR Mobile


I said the UK Government has one of the laxest tax systems in the developed world. The UK is basically a device for transferring wealth from the many to the few. In other words, Britain operates for the rich folk. As long as rick folk are all right, it doesnot matter about anyone else. That is how the UK operates.
Original post by Good bloke
You do realise that an obvious British response might be to lower its own corporation tax rate, don't you?

How will the Scots get around the problem of companies not paying their tax, when all the major countries are having the same problem? Is there something in the Scottish water?


But big companies don't pay any tax at all, that is the point. No wonder the UK is in such a mess. How is it right that ordinary citizens, such as me and yourself, would get jailed if they didn't pay tax, but it is okay for big companies like Amazon and Starbucks, who have trading in the UK for 20 years, to only have paid about £10million in corporation tax, can get away with that?
Original post by Choo.choo
But big companies don't pay any tax at all, that is the point. No wonder the UK is in such a mess. How is it right that ordinary citizens, such as me and yourself, would get jailed if they didn't pay tax, but it is okay for big companies like Amazon and Starbucks, who have trading in the UK for 20 years, to only have paid about £10million in corporation tax, can get away with that?


You have completely ignored the important point, and my question. The point is that all the major countries are having the same problem (and discussing how to combat it); the question was, how will Scotland deal with it? Feel free to provide an answer.
Reply 5145
Original post by FredOrJohn
About 50% of government income comes from loans. I think lending institutions have already stated SNP scotland would need to pay more... Thus meaning higher income tax to pay for the extra interest charges, or lower state benefits (Which is no bad thing)


By 50% do you mean 16%? Massive exageration doesn't help your arguement.

Scotland would need to pay 0.2-0.3% more, big deal.

Scotland would have a lower deficit which would more than counteract that.

The issue is the transition cost.
Original post by Choo.choo
I said the UK Government has one of the laxest tax systems in the developed world. The UK is basically a device for transferring wealth from the many to the few. In other words, Britain operates for the rich folk. As long as rick folk are all right, it doesnot matter about anyone else. That is how the UK operates.


I don't see how a tax system transfers wealth to any individual. Surely it transfers money from the people to the government, from where it is spent by the government to further national interest (which includes spending on welfare payments to poor people)? Perhaps you can explain how any individual can receive tax payments, rather than pay them?
Reply 5147
Original post by Good bloke
You have completely ignored the important point, and my question. The point is that all the major countries are having the same problem (and discussing how to combat it); the question was, how will Scotland deal with it? Feel free to provide an answer.


Haven't the SNP answered that one, they want to do an Ireland and be a tax haven.
Original post by Quady
Haven't the SNP answered that one, they want to do an Ireland and be a tax haven.


Ah! They want to be part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Reply 5149
Original post by Good bloke
Ah! They want to be part of the problem, not part of the solution.


Yup

Well other people's problem...
Original post by Good bloke
You have completely ignored the important point, and my question. The point is that all the major countries are having the same problem (and discussing how to combat it); the question was, how will Scotland deal with it? Feel free to provide an answer.


Close all tax loopholes for a start. Basically, the UK Government sent in a company, for example KPMG, to fill the tax system with many, many loopholes, so that rich folk can avoid paying tax. Why is it that smaller, similar-sized countries to Scotland are not in debt, whereas the bigger countries are? This is an argument consistently put forward by the Better Together campaign, that we should be part of something bigger, which I think is just ludicrous. Why shouldn't countries have self-determination?
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 5151
Original post by Choo.choo
Close all tax loopholes for a start. Basically, the UK Government sent in a company, for example KPMG, to fill the tax system with many, many loopholes, so that rich folk can avoid paying tax. Why is it that smaller, similar-sized countries to Scotland are not in debt, whereas the bigger countries are? This is an argument consistently put forward by the Better Together campaign, that we should be part of something bigger, which I think is just ludicrous? Why shouldn't countries have self-determination?


WTF???? No, no they didn't....

Which smaller countries?
Ireland?
Belgium?
Greece?
Portugal?

Norway for sure, but it has vastly more oil than Scotland and if you go by their model you need to strip out the contribution from oil as they don't spend it on public services.

Better together doesn't say they should. Look at the title, they are just advocating Scotland would be better as part of the UK, not that self determination is invalid, just its not optimal.
Original post by Choo.choo
the UK Government sent in a company, for example KPMG, to fill the tax system with many, many loopholes, so that rich folk can avoid paying tax.


Accountancy firms do not create the tax system.


Why is it that smaller, similar-sized countries to Scotland are not in debt, whereas the bigger countries are?


There is not a single EU country, of any size, that does not have government debt. Where do you get the idea that they don't have debt?
Original post by Quady
WTF???? No, no they didn't....

Which smaller countries?
Ireland?
Belgium?
Greece?
Portugal?

Norway for sure, but it has vastly more oil than Scotland and if you go by their model you need to strip out the contribution from oil as they don't spend it on public services.

Better together doesn't say they should. Look at the title, they are just advocating Scotland would be better as part of the UK, not that self determination is invalid, just its not optimal.


Optimal for whom? You?
Reply 5154
Original post by Good bloke
There is not a single EU country, of any size, that does not have government debt. Where do you get the idea that they don't have debt?


Apart from some who have defaulted recently, I don't think there are any countries without debt....
Original post by Quady
Apart from some who have defaulted recently, I don't think there are any countries without debt....


Well, of course. But those who have defaulted are in a worse position than those with debts, anyway, as they'll be paying a significant premium for years to come..
Reply 5156
Original post by Choo.choo
Optimal for whom? You?


Scotland.

I've just stating their position. Where has Better Together ever said self determination is wrong?

Actually, although I agree with Better Together for the nation, personally I think I'd do very much better if Scotland goes independent.
Original post by Choo.choo
Optimal for whom? You?


Scots, obviously. :rolleyes:
Original post by Good bloke
Accountancy firms do not create the tax system.
There is not a single EU country, of any size, that does not have government debt. Where do you get the idea that they don't have debt?


It is the job of an accountancy firm to deal with the profit and loss account and balance sheet of a business. A government has a balance sheet and profit and loss account. So since accountancy firms will be experts in dealing with these things, it will be them who have been paid to fill the tax system with loopholes. Haven't you heard in the media about big businesses sending stuff abroad to avoid tax? Surely you have?
Reply 5159
Original post by Good bloke
Well, of course. But those who have defaulted are in a worse position than those with debts, anyway, as they'll be paying a significant premium for years to come..


I was just adding to your point, not arguing against it :smile:

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