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Mata playing right - it's not a natural position for him. Ozil would probably play that role better I'd say. Mata needs someone like Rafael to come steaming down the wing to give him an option otherwise he'll get cramped for space and lose possession. No coincidence that he supplied the assist to RVP centrally. Same situation as Kagawa, plays poorly on the left/right, more effective behind the number nine.

If I had a choice between Mata and Rooney as number ten, I know who I'd pick. I doubt the guy reportedly considering £300,000 wages would have been able to play that pass to RVP. Rooney has been brilliant this season but Mata, with his quality, age, experience is the future for the number ten role. But Moyes seems keen not to upset Rooney and the club even, they're bending over to let Rooney and Stretford gain as much money they want.
Original post by Zürich
Why isn't anyone talking about the Glazers here?

It's Ok to say you want to be City or Chelsea but their whole model is based on throwing £100m after £100m on players under new managers. Will the Glazers provide that? Definitely not.

I think that's why Moyes was appointed, a manager who has a track record of working with limited funds and sort of getting results.


I don't see the Glazers are largely problematic to be honest. It was always just the reality of being a plc. The hope would have been somebody wealthy enough would have bought the club, ala Manchester City, we were just unfortunate somebody bought it on debt.

But as Fizzle has explained in this thread, the financial situation is much rosier than it was in 2009-2010. The Glazers have a model which requires success as a given. They need to invest for business reasons.

For me, the Glazers are often used as a scapegoat because people wouldn't criticise Ferguson, or now Moyes. It's that moral purity Manchester United fans look for. After Mourinho's second year title I was calling for Ferguson's sacking. Two seasons and just the Carling Cup just isn't good enough. If you set the standards high yourself you better be able to keep meeting them. That's how I see it.

The Glazers have spent over 600M on players since they arrived. The message Ferguson and Moyes have told us is that they can go to the Glazers and say I want this player and they will pay. Call me naive but I believe them, they've paid a lot of money for players.

We've competed with Chelsea's money since 2004 and I expect us to do the same with City. If you put Mourinho or Pep in charge of that team, gave them money to buy 2 or 3 in Summer we'd win the league.

Original post by Zürich
Only concern is RVP, he is such a horrid **** he'll want to hurt our title changes regardless of Utd's position. Juan Mata and Rooney also have habits of playing very well against us.

What I want to see Arsenal do is just break your back in the first half. Camp in your half and just pick holes in your two-bob defence, we always give Utd too much respect.

I think we'll win because its such a huge huge match for us as well. And we're at home.


You'll win Zurich, you'll be pleased to hear. Maybe 3-0. If we are lucky we'll get a goal. We just don't have the midfield to get near you, you'll run rings around you, and our defence is poor. Moyes just isn't good enough to win the big games. We won't win another this season and we'll never win away to City/Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal while Moyes is manager. It's just one of the harsh realities of how w.ank he is.
Just watched MOTD. To all you Moyes apologists, how can you tell me a team with Mata, RVP,Rooney, Rafael, Evra, DDG, Carrick is "average" against a team like Stoke?
Original post by Wilfred Little
I laugh when I see some Man. United fans doing this. They're loving it. It's an opportunity to score points over others.

'Get behind the manager! We're MANCHESTER UNITED, we're not CHELSEA or CITY, we are UNITED, we don't sack managers after THREE MONTHS' :biggrin:

Even if he's an inept bastard who's made mistake after mistake and by his own admission, hasn't got a clue?

Some of your fans are too scared of looking like spoiled bastards to voice their real opinions - Moyes isn't good enough.


Nail on the head for me. They look to be more virtuous, more morally pure than others. So they can say we aren't a club like City or Chelsea. And it's ridiculous. What's the telos of football? Winning trophies? You do what is required to get there. Ask Arsenal fans if they'd have rather have had Chelsea's last 8 years and managers or theirs.

Indeed Wilfred. I'll be honest. I'll admit what I am. I've supported United 17 years, all I've ever known is success. I'm a spoilt fan, I expect quick success, I expect the Ferguson years to be the norm, not an acceptation. And I won't go to games while we're playing badly. I'm as fickle as you like as well. I was pro-Moyes in Summer and after win at Swansea, then anti-Moyes. Then pro-Moyes after Arsenal win, then anti-Moyes ever since. I make no apology and I don't try to hide it. I'm a fickle modern fan that wants to see my team win trophies.
Original post by Eboracum
I don't see the Glazers are largely problematic to be honest. It was always just the reality of being a plc. The hope would have been somebody wealthy enough would have bought the club, ala Manchester City, we were just unfortunate somebody bought it on debt.

But as Fizzle has explained in this thread, the financial situation is much rosier than it was in 2009-2010. The Glazers have a model which requires success as a given. They need to invest for business reasons.

For me, the Glazers are often used as a scapegoat because people wouldn't criticise Ferguson, or now Moyes. It's that moral purity Manchester United fans look for. After Mourinho's second year title I was calling for Ferguson's sacking. Two seasons and just the Carling Cup just isn't good enough. If you set the standards high yourself you better be able to keep meeting them. That's how I see it.

The Glazers have spent over 600M on players since they arrived. The message Ferguson and Moyes have told us is that they can go to the Glazers and say I want this player and they will pay. Call me naive but I believe them, they've paid a lot of money for players.

We've competed with Chelsea's money since 2004 and I expect us to do the same with City. If you put Mourinho or Pep in charge of that team, gave them money to buy 2 or 3 in Summer we'd win the league.



You'll win Zurich, you'll be pleased to hear. Maybe 3-0. If we are lucky we'll get a goal. We just don't have the midfield to get near you, you'll run rings around you, and our defence is poor. Moyes just isn't good enough to win the big games. We won't win another this season and we'll never win away to City/Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal while Moyes is manager. It's just one of the harsh realities of how w.ank he is.


They are only half a plc. In reality the Glaziers control the club and take out what they want. And the amounts are eye watering.
Original post by LostGear
bbbbut this is a manager that Sir Alex Ferguson personally hand picked! Do you not trust Sir Alex's judgment?


No i don't. I think the fact that he was Ferguson's choice is irrelevant. Wilf McGuinness was Sir Matt Busby's choice, and he was a crap manager for us. He is the Chosen One...chosen by Ferguson, not the majority of fans, and backed even less now. I hate the idea of the cotton wool he is wrapped in because he's Ferguson's man. I actually think Ferguson is doing a lot of damage to the club now.

Original post by Aky786UK
If I had a choice between Mata and Rooney as number ten, I know who I'd pick. I doubt the guy reportedly considering £300,000 wages would have been able to play that pass to RVP. Rooney has been brilliant this season but Mata, with his quality, age, experience is the future for the number ten role. But Moyes seems keen not to upset Rooney and the club even, they're bending over to let Rooney and Stretford gain as much money they want.


Indeed. I'm coming to the conclusion that we should actually sell Wayne Rooney. I mean, it kind of undermines what I've been saying in that the sole priority is winning trophies and everything else comes after. But, he's 28, he isn't worth 300k even by today's ridiculous standards, and long term I'd rather see Mata in the hole role. Perhaps a 4-2-3-1, you buy Vidal and Kroos for the 2 and Reus for the wing, then you play RVP and Mata and Januzaj. I just think long term, 300k a week for a 28-year-old is a bad investment. Rooney was **** today as well.
Original post by Eboracum
Nail on the head for me. They look to be more virtuous, more morally pure than others. So they can say we aren't a club like City or Chelsea. And it's ridiculous. What's the telos of football? Winning trophies? You do what is required to get there. Ask Arsenal fans if they'd have rather have had Chelsea's last 8 years and managers or theirs.

Indeed Wilfred. I'll be honest. I'll admit what I am. I've supported United 17 years, all I've ever known is success. I'm a spoilt fan, I expect quick success, I expect the Ferguson years to be the norm, not an acceptation. And I won't go to games while we're playing badly. I'm as fickle as you like as well. I was pro-Moyes in Summer and after win at Swansea, then anti-Moyes. Then pro-Moyes after Arsenal win, then anti-Moyes ever since. I make no apology and I don't try to hide it. I'm a fickle modern fan that wants to see my team win trophies.


:biggrin:

You're a funny ****er at times tbh.
Original post by Old_Simon
They are only half a plc. In reality the Glaziers control the club and take out what they want. And the amounts are eye watering.


It's their club, they can do that. That's one of the harsh realities of capitalism. Fans should have bought the club out themselves to be honest, why didn't they buy the shares? They can only have themselves to blame. And as for them jokers 'the Red Knights'. Do me a favour. Really we need the Glazers to sell and be bought by somebody with a bottomless pit, then start bidding for players like Messi. The financial analysts are telling me eventually the Glazers will sell.
Original post by Eboracum
It's their club, they can do that. That's one of the harsh realities of capitalism. Fans should have bought the club out themselves to be honest, why didn't they buy the shares? They can only have themselves to blame. And as for them jokers 'the Red Knights'. Do me a favour. Really we need the Glazers to sell and be bought by somebody with a bottomless pit, then start bidding for players like Messi. The financial analysts are telling me eventually the Glazers will sell.


Well if it is a plc it is not "their" club. You can't have it both ways.
Original post by Wilfred Little
:biggrin:

You're a funny ****er at times tbh.


:biggrin:

I'm not going to feed you bull**** Wilfred saying how morally pure and what a wonderful moral fan I am. When your lot held up the sign saying 'We're not fickle, we just don't like you', I'd have been holding up a sign to Moist saying 'I am fickle, and I just don't like you'.

But just on that point. I hate this idea that all the 'real fans' love Moyes, and if you don't, you are not a 'real fan'. It just sounds like an authoritarian Communist state.

Original post by Old_Simon
Well if it is a plc it is not "their" club. You can't have it both ways.


The point I was trying to make was that it was a plc, that it was just waiting to be bought out. The fans should have done it before 2005.
Original post by Eboracum
:biggrin:

I'm not going to feed you bull**** Wilfred saying how morally pure and what a wonderful moral fan I am. When your lot held up the sign saying 'We're not fickle, we just don't like you', I'd have been holding up a sign to Moist saying 'I am fickle, and I just don't like you'.

But just on that point. I hate this idea that all the 'real fans' love Moyes, and if you don't, you are not a 'real fan'. It just sounds like an authoritarian Communist state.



The point I was trying to make was that it was a plc, that it was just waiting to be bought out. The fans should have done it before 2005.


Yes but it is now carrying way to much debt, mortgaged to the hilt, and all manner of creative asset stripping been going on for years. Everybody knows they want to sell the hulk. Very few investors are that daft.
Reply 151
Original post by Peachz
What exactly is your complaint?


My complaint is simple. TSR has allowed something unconstitutional to happen. On the first page, Sylvain Wiltord is and these 3 wise men are missing.



I'm not exaggerating but it's simply unconstitutional and it needs correcting. But, I'm onto it.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Kenan and Kel
The best of Eboracum


Goodness. I wasn't expecting that. :colondollar:
Original post by Eboracum
Goodness. I wasn't expecting that. :colondollar:


It's only right. You were supposed to make this thread but weren't around at the time, so I had to do it.
Original post by EasyReppin

I've been waking up every morning expecting to see the news "DAVID MOYES SACKED" and every morning I'm continuously disappointed


Indeed me to. I'd know how the Americans felt after independence if I woke up tomorrow morning with the news that Moist had been sacked. One of the worst Premier League managers in history. Please please leave.
Original post by Kenan and Kel
It's only right. You were supposed to make this thread but weren't around at the time, so I had to do it.


Apologies. Next time!
Original post by Eboracum
Nail on the head for me. They look to be more virtuous, more morally pure than others. So they can say we aren't a club like City or Chelsea. And it's ridiculous. What's the telos of football? Winning trophies? You do what is required to get there. Ask Arsenal fans if they'd have rather have had Chelsea's last 8 years and managers or theirs.

Indeed Wilfred. I'll be honest. I'll admit what I am. I've supported United 17 years, all I've ever known is success. I'm a spoilt fan, I expect quick success, I expect the Ferguson years to be the norm, not an acceptation. And I won't go to games while we're playing badly. I'm as fickle as you like as well. I was pro-Moyes in Summer and after win at Swansea, then anti-Moyes. Then pro-Moyes after Arsenal win, then anti-Moyes ever since. I make no apology and I don't try to hide it. I'm a fickle modern fan that wants to see my team win trophies.


I've defended Moyes not because I'm trying to be morally superior to others, but because I saw what he achieved when given time at Everton and that was to consistently finish in the top 7 despite having the lowest net spend of all clubs in the EPL (he actually had a negative net spend over his tenure).

However my biggest worry about him is his training methods. RVP has complained about them and even Rooney has said they are "so hard". IMO this is the reason why we had the longest injury list in the league up until last week, and why our performances have been so lethargic. Everton also had too many injury crises under him. It makes sense to make the players give 70% in training so they can give 100% in the match. I've never watched United train however, so this is all based on articles I've read.

ATM I'm torn about whether he should stay or leave. On the one hand I feel he's been dealt a bad hand what with Vidic, Evra, Rio, Carrick declining and Valencia turning to crap. On the other hand people say he's been unlucky with injuries but I feel that is his own doing (see above), his player selections, tactics and subs have also been questionable. But part of me wants to see him bring in his own players before people judge him.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 157
Original post by Kenan and Kel
Updated the OP, and will continue to do so when appropriate.


I made the front page :biggrin:

It's emotional :cry:
Original post by 419
I made the front page :biggrin:

It's emotional :cry:


Post #20 as well. It was just meant to be :moon:
Original post by Eboracum
Indeed me to. I'd know how the Americans felt after independence if I woke up tomorrow morning with the news that Moist had been sacked. One of the worst Premier League managers in history. Please please leave.


Oh he won't leave. his contract is worth 30 million. If anything he'll want sacking soon as so he can go and enjoy his "easy" earned money. The man is a joke and he's turning this club into a joke.


All these disillusion fans supporting him are doing my head in. Support what's best for the club not what some ageing fossil says and Moyes isn't it! How many times do you need to put your hand in a fire before you realise it burns. SACK THIS MAN!!!!!!!!!

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