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Original post by Boab
There is a significant amount of evidence that Better Together is making it all up.

I understand you are blinded by your biased view, but there are two sides to this.


Such as?

I've seen a senior member of the EU discredit Salmonds claim on automatic EU membership.

I've seen independent organisations raise issues about Salmonds claim of economic policy.

I've seen the major partners in Salmonds quest for a currency union say no, backed up by opinion polling.
Reply 7421
Original post by MatureStudent36
Such as?

I've seen a senior member of the EU discredit Salmonds claim on automatic EU membership.

I've seen independent organisations raise issues about Salmonds claim of economic policy.

Not even sure what that means.


I've seen the major partners in Salmonds quest for a currency union say no, backed up by opinion polling.

What opinion polling has to do with anything on this issue is irrelevant, but I can point you back to 40% believing RuK claims against 45% thinking they are lying.


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/17/barroso-scotland-ludicrous-remarks
The Spanish Foreign minister rubbishing said senior member of EU.

And well we all know about a Government minister admitting that the currency union threat is actually a lie.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scottish-independence-coalition-minister-breaks-ranks-on-currency-union-9223810.html
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Boab
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/17/barroso-scotland-ludicrous-remarks
The Spanish Foreign minister rubbishing said senior member of EU.

And well we all know about a Government minister admitting that the currency union threat is actually a lie.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scottish-independence-coalition-minister-breaks-ranks-on-currency-union-9223810.html


So an opinion piece in a news paper goes against what a senior EU politician is saying and ignores the fact that all 28 member states have to agree.

And the other article is referencing a news article made in the guardian by an unnamed politician going against what other political leaders have said and goes against what the UK electorate want?

Compelling evidence their Boab. More of the YeSNP campaigns 'lets cross our fingers and hope for the best'
Reply 7423
Original post by Boab
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/17/barroso-scotland-ludicrous-remarks
The Spanish Foreign minister rubbishing said senior member of EU.

And well we all know about a Government minister admitting that the currency union threat is actually a lie.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scottish-independence-coalition-minister-breaks-ranks-on-currency-union-9223810.html


Spot on, My friend.
Original post by Jordan_1
Scotland always has and always will punch above it's weight in terms on 'impacting the world stage'.


Not unlike the UK, in that regard.
1. No currency union will be agreed on by a party that wants to see themselves in government.

2. Salmond's plan to get into the EU (under article 48) relies on rUk's good will heavily. Too heavily. Re-applying will most likely be a lot quicker.

3. There will most likely be a GE and Scottish Election before independence is achieved, meaning that negotiations will most likely start over twice.

4. Sterling is an institution, and therefore while it is Scotland's pound, it is only Scotland's pound while they are part of the UK.

5. If Scotland reapplies to the EU (under Section 49) it will have to join the Schengen area. If Scotland pursues a drastically different immigration policy it cannot remain in the common travel area. Therefore border controls would have to be set up if either of these situations happen.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 7426
Original post by MatureStudent36
So an opinion piece in a news paper goes against what a senior EU politician is saying and ignores the fact that all 28 member states have to agree.

It is not an opinion piece. It is the view of the Spanish Foreign Minister.
His own government have distanced themselves from his personal opinion.


And the other article is referencing a news article made in the guardian by an unnamed politician going against what other political leaders have said and goes against what the UK electorate want?

A government minister has admitted this. End of argument! Of course he wouldn't say it in public as he would be crucified by his leadership who want to continue this lie.


I could start with lies from BT if you wish. Shall we start with Doctor Who?
Reply 7427
Original post by Cryptographic
1. No currency union will be agreed on by a party that wants to see themselves in government.

The tories are likely to be re-elected after 5 years of austerity but a currency union is going to destroy them? Aye right!

2. Salmond's plan to get into the EU (under article 48) relies on rUk's good will heavily. Too heavily. Re-applying will most likely be a lot quicker.

3. There will most likely be a GE and Scottish Election before independence is achieved, meaning that negotiations will most likely start over twice.

Even politicians are not daft enough to bother with games like this. Tories more than likely to win anyway. Labour are useless right now.

4. Sterling is an institution, and therefore while it is Scotland's pound, it is only Scotland's pound while they are part of the UK.

5. If Scotland reapplies to the EU (under Section 49) it will have to join the Schengen area. If Scotland pursues a drastically different immigration policy it cannot remain in the common travel area. Therefore border controls would have to be set up if either of these situations happen.

The biggest nonsense ever to come out of Westminster. Anyone who has travelled throughout Europe and their countries who also have wildly differing immigration policies know this is utter scaremongering gibberish. How has border controls between France and England prevented immigration btw?


You'll have noticed how even Better Together politicians don't mention that last one before as people just laugh at them!
Original post by Boab
You'll have noticed how even Better Together politicians don't mention that last one before as people just laugh at them!


If they know that it will destroy them, why would they agree to it?

Ok if Labour get in, (not-unlikely) and the conservatives didn't use a bi-partisan committee, and Labour in their manifesto say certain things will happen in the negotiations, but the conservatives agreed differently. Then they could re-start. Since the Labour government would be reliant on the Scottish MP's then it would be in their interest to delay. 9 months is not a very long time, if a different party got elected (not SNP majority) and they had completely different aims then it could re-start again.

Well believe it or not some people get turned away. Once again making rUK completely sacrifice any semblance of being able to control it's immigration would be electoral suicide. Hence the potential border controls.
Reply 7429
Original post by Cryptographic
If they know that it will destroy them, why would they agree to it?

It won't destroy them. Pure hyperbole. the public have far more pressing things to worry about!

Ok if Labour get in, (not-unlikely) and the conservatives didn't use a bi-partisan committee, and Labour in their manifesto say certain things will happen in the negotiations, but the conservatives agreed differently. Then they could re-start. Since the Labour government would be reliant on the Scottish MP's then it would be in their interest to delay. 9 months is not a very long time, if a different party got elected (not SNP majority) and they had completely different aims then it could re-start again.

Firstly, you are just trying to imagine a very worst possible case scenario. Lets be realistic. Secondly the Scottish elections are scheduled for a date AFTER Scotland has declared its independence.
ps - No chance Labour are winning - that isn't a bias viewpoint, Labour are feckin hopeless at the moment - Ed Milliband?!!

Well believe it or not some people get turned away. Once again making rUK completely sacrifice any semblance of being able to control it's immigration would be electoral suicide. Hence the potential border controls.


No potential, at all. Theoretical nonsense dreamt up in the hope of scaring people.
Original post by Boab
No potential, at all. Theoretical nonsense dreamt up in the hope of scaring people.


Yes, scheduled is the key word, Tories need a 12 point swing to even equalise. 9 months is not very long. Especially when breaking up such a long union. It is, as Al Gore would have said, an inconvenient truth.

The right is getting much more concerned about immigration, why would rUk give up one of the most important parts of being an independent nation.
Reply 7431
An additional point on the next Scottish elections. Whereas Labour down south are ahead of the Tories in the polls, as opposition parties midway through a term tend and need to be to stand any chance, the Scottish Labour party are still miles behind an SNP administration whose full focus is obviously on the referendum.

Pitiful stuff from Lamont et al.
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Boab
An additional point on the next Scottish elections. Whereas Labour down south are ahead of the Tories in the polls, as opposition parties midway term tend and need to be to stand any chance, the Scottish Labour party are still miles behind an SNP administration whose full focus is obviously on the referendum.

Pitiful stuff from Lamont et al.


Bull**** according to this: http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/polls_scot.html

scotpollgraph.gif
Reply 7433
Original post by Cryptographic


I will let you figure out your own mistake there.
Original post by Boab
I will let you figure out your own mistake there.


Opinion polls of Scottish parties, by people in Scotland. These are for UK GE, but these are more likely to become closer nearer the time when/if unionist's unite under one party.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 7435
Original post by Cryptographic
Opinion polls of Scottish parties, by people in Scotland. These are for UK GE, but these are more likely to become closer nearer the time when/if unionist's unite under one party.


You can admit a mistake and move on you know?

Unionists uniting under one party to garner more votes in a Scottish parliamentary election? What is this?!
Original post by Boab
You can admit a mistake and move on you know?

Unionists uniting under one party to garner more votes in a Scottish parliamentary election? What is this?!


Tactical voting. I admit it doesn't have as much effect in a PR process. Anyway can you admit as well that there is no plan B (for currency) being put forwards?
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 7437
Original post by Cryptographic
Tactical voting. I admit it doesn't have as much effect in a PR process. Anyway can you admit as well that there is no plan B (for currency) being put forwards?


hahahahahahaha

Talk about changing the subject. We've already covered this!
Original post by Boab
hahahahahahaha

Talk about changing the subject. We've already covered this!


I stand by my comments that:

1. No currency union will be agreed on by a party that wants to see themselves in government.


2. Salmond's plan to get into the EU (under article 48) relies on rUk's good will heavily. Too heavily. Re-applying will most likely be a lot quicker.

3. There will most likely be a GE and Scottish Election before independence is achieved, meaning that negotiations will most likely start over twice.

4. Sterling is an institution, and therefore while it is Scotland's pound, it is only Scotland's pound while they are part of the UK.

5. If Scotland reapplies to the EU (under Section 49) it will have to join the Schengen area. If Scotland pursues a drastically different immigration policy it cannot remain in the common travel area. Therefore border controls would have to be set up if either of these situations happen.


Also in the 2016 elections turnout will be higher and if independence is chosen then the SNP may not get elected, due to people choosing a different option.
Original post by Boab
I could start with lies from BT if you wish. Shall we start with Doctor Who?


It is an opinion piece.

But. Please feel free to expand.

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